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"Am I A Christian" reply parts 3 & 4

Patrick Miron

Patrick4Jesus
Start Pt 3 & 4 of 9

Point # [3 & 4] Moses and the tablets

Again a bit of background seems prudent here by way of evidencing this topic.

The Old Testament taken as a whole is a Battle saga; a story of the war between GOD and His chosen People: Deuteronomy 7: 6 “[6] Because thou art a holy people to the Lord thy God. {a long way of being that at this point} The Lord thy God hath chosen thee, to be his peculiar people of all peoples that are upon the earth.” {The READ 1 Peter 2:9}.

When God made this decision {which He always knew that He would}; the world was filled with waring peoples and a huge-multiplicity of self-invented gods were common and numerous. So God had to convince them of what He began with Adam and still desires today: Belief in only One True God; One True set of Faith beliefs in and through his One True Chosen People; which was the identical task Jesus faced about 2,000 years later. {Mt 16:18 …. My Church; Eph. 4:5 One Faith}

So if YOU were God, how would you go about convincing them; the One Chosen People that:

1. You ARE GOD {the one only TRUE-God}

2. That You demanded their total and complete loyalty and obedience {One set of Faith beliefs} See Eph. 4:5

3. That you would reward good and punish evil to train them and conditionally save them

So just what and how would you go about this? {A rhetorical question as God never ask for OUR opinions; what we want is always overridden by what He wants.

Here then was {is} God’s game plan:

1. Give very much indisputable {logically & morally} evidence of your power and commitment.

2. Set up circumstances that would accommodate your display of Power, compassion and commitment

3. Display your Power; rewarding “good” and punishing evil to set a prime moral Precedent, with emphasis on the penalty for obstinacy, which Yahweh knew he would face both in the Egyptians and in the Jewish Nation

4. Exhibit extraordinary patience and make CLEAR what your expectations are


How did God accomplish His goals?

He permitted the Hebrew Nation ton be taken captive by the Egyptians.

Them He chose Moses {and his brother Aaron} as his leader{s] and spokespersons

Next Yahweh had them make DEMANDS to the Egyptian King

Whom he permitted to have a hardened obstinate heart {and head}

Which THEN permitted Yahweh to exhibit His Powers and Authority, while at the same time showing GREAT compassion on the plight of the Jews.

Each Yahweh {GOD} imposed condition was met with prideful-obstinacy, which gave Yahweh the opportunity to simultaneously punish the King and his people; while at the same time making evident to the Jews, His unlimited Power and Authority, which was to become the historical benchmark-evidence of his One God, Faith and People over the years.

So, we are to accept the 10 plague’s {chapters 1 to 14 or 2x7} as real, which foretell the Ten Commandments and consequences for not accepting and fully obeying them. That darn old obstinacy thing again.

Certainly all of this is within the Powers and Authority of the very same God who Created the Universe and everything in it, and sustains all of it in the Order that he Ordained for it.

Much history is evidenced in the book of Exodus before God introduces the Ten Commandments. That name; “Commandments” does not imply suggestions; rather COMMANDS; failure to accept and obey them WILL have consequences. They are so important that that GOD writes them in STONE to convey their endless life-merit to one’s salvation.

END Pts 3 & 4 of 9
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
This is orthodox ideology. pure and simple. Too much time wasted on the Bible and little on the Gospel. Christ taught the Gospel and said to teach it. The OT is not the Gospel. The Gospel teaches of a God of love that doesn't murder men but calls them to (true) life of spirit. Not like the god of the OT that murdered men to show his (physical) might.

Loving God is with all thy soul, all thy heart and all thy MIND.

The OT teaches to love that god with all thy soul, all thy heart and all thy MIGHT.

The difference is clear, and why Jesus was the truth and why he said that Moses didn't not get his bread (knowledge) from "heaven" and that Jesus was the truth from heaven.

The vision of the disciples seeing Jesus talking with Moses and Isaiah, and wanting to build a temple to each one, was clear when the Holy Spirits voice came and said "this is my son, HEAR HIM". It's enough for me to let the OT go, and concentrate on the Spirits teachings, that the Jews never had.

See what you wish. But my answer to the question is NO by Gospel ( Canon and non canon) and Pauls standards.
 

12jtartar

Active Member
Premium Member
Start Pt 3 & 4 of 9

Point # [3 & 4] Moses and the tablets

Again a bit of background seems prudent here by way of evidencing this topic.

The Old Testament taken as a whole is a Battle saga; a story of the war between GOD and His chosen People: Deuteronomy 7: 6 “[6] Because thou art a holy people to the Lord thy God. {a long way of being that at this point} The Lord thy God hath chosen thee, to be his peculiar people of all peoples that are upon the earth.” {The READ 1 Peter 2:9}.

When God made this decision {which He always knew that He would}; the world was filled with waring peoples and a huge-multiplicity of self-invented gods were common and numerous. So God had to convince them of what He began with Adam and still desires today: Belief in only One True God; One True set of Faith beliefs in and through his One True Chosen People; which was the identical task Jesus faced about 2,000 years later. {Mt 16:18 …. My Church; Eph. 4:5 One Faith}

So if YOU were God, how would you go about convincing them; the One Chosen People that:

1. You ARE GOD {the one only TRUE-God}

2. That You demanded their total and complete loyalty and obedience {One set of Faith beliefs} See Eph. 4:5

3. That you would reward good and punish evil to train them and conditionally save them

So just what and how would you go about this? {A rhetorical question as God never ask for OUR opinions; what we want is always overridden by what He wants.

Here then was {is} God’s game plan:

1. Give very much indisputable {logically & morally} evidence of your power and commitment.

2. Set up circumstances that would accommodate your display of Power, compassion and commitment

3. Display your Power; rewarding “good” and punishing evil to set a prime moral Precedent, with emphasis on the penalty for obstinacy, which Yahweh knew he would face both in the Egyptians and in the Jewish Nation

4. Exhibit extraordinary patience and make CLEAR what your expectations are


How did God accomplish His goals?

He permitted the Hebrew Nation ton be taken captive by the Egyptians.

Them He chose Moses {and his brother Aaron} as his leader{s] and spokespersons

Next Yahweh had them make DEMANDS to the Egyptian King

Whom he permitted to have a hardened obstinate heart {and head}

Which THEN permitted Yahweh to exhibit His Powers and Authority, while at the same time showing GREAT compassion on the plight of the Jews.

Each Yahweh {GOD} imposed condition was met with prideful-obstinacy, which gave Yahweh the opportunity to simultaneously punish the King and his people; while at the same time making evident to the Jews, His unlimited Power and Authority, which was to become the historical benchmark-evidence of his One God, Faith and People over the years.

So, we are to accept the 10 plague’s {chapters 1 to 14 or 2x7} as real, which foretell the Ten Commandments and consequences for not accepting and fully obeying them. That darn old obstinacy thing again.

Certainly all of this is within the Powers and Authority of the very same God who Created the Universe and everything in it, and sustains all of it in the Order that he Ordained for it.

Much history is evidenced in the book of Exodus before God introduces the Ten Commandments. That name; “Commandments” does not imply suggestions; rather COMMANDS; failure to accept and obey them WILL have consequences. They are so important that that GOD writes them in STONE to convey their endless life-merit to one’s salvation.

END Pts 3 & 4 of 9

Patrick Miron,
The quick answer to the question, Am I a Christian? Is No!!!
The reason for that answer is, you do not become a Christian, by signing up to a church. There are definite requirements that a person must fulfill before they become a Christian, therefore a Christian knows whether he is a Christian, or not. If you think you might be a Christian, you are not!!! If you know that you are a Christian, you might be, but the one who judges is God, 1Corinthians 4:3,4.
 

Patrick Miron

Patrick4Jesus
YOU'RE QUOTES NUMBERED
[1] This is orthodox ideology. pure and simple. Too much time wasted on the Bible and little on the Gospel. [2] Christ taught the Gospel and said to teach it. [3] he OT is not the Gospel. [4] The Gospel teaches of a God of love that doesn't murder men but calls them to (true) life of spirit. Not like the god of the OT that murdered men to show his (physical) might.

[5] Loving God is with all thy soul, all thy heart and all thy MIND.

[6] The OT teaches to love that god with all thy soul, all thy heart and all thy MIGHT.

The difference is clear, and why Jesus was the truth and why he said that Moses didn't not get his bread (knowledge) from "heaven" and that Jesus was the truth from heaven.

[7]The vision of the disciples seeing Jesus talking with Moses and Isaiah, and wanting to build a temple to each one, was clear when the Holy Spirits voice came and said "this is my son, HEAR HIM". It's enough for me to let the OT go, and concentrate on the Spirits teachings, that the Jews never had.

See what you wish. But my answer to the question is NO by Gospel ( Canon and non canon) and Pauls standards.

The first to help you up are the ones who know how it feels to fall down.END QUOTES

#2Phantasman, Today at 1:00 PM

Thank you for sharing your thoughts; now permit me to add some reason to this discussion. I have numbered your points to make it easier to follow along.

[1] 2nd Tim 3:3:16-17 “[16] All scripture, {IS} inspired of God, {AND} is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, [17] That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.}

DOUAY BIBLE COMMENTARY [16] "All scripture,": Every part of divine scripture is certainly profitable for all these ends. But, if we would have the whole rule of Christian faith and practice, we must not be content with those Scriptures, which Timothy knew from his infancy, that is, with the Old Testament alone: nor yet with the New Testament, without taking along with it the traditions of the apostles, and the interpretation of the church, to which the apostles delivered both the book, and the true meaning of it.

The Old Testament LEADS to Jesus in the NT

The NT fulfills, completes and even perfects the OT

[2] No, actually What Jesus said and did was to create and introduce a New Religion to replace Judaism. This Jesus Accomplished {Mt 10:1-8; Mt 16:15-19; John 17:17-20; Mt 28:18-20; Eph. 2: 20} [20] Built upon the foundation of the {CATHOLIC} apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone: & Eph. 4: 4 and 4:5.”

Mt. 28: 19-20 “ [19] Going therefore, teach YOU all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS whatsoever I have commanded YOU: and behold I am with YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world.”

That “YOU” IS TODAYS Roman Catholic Church. {look up the passages I posted above and note the singular tense words.

THE “GOD’S” OF THE OT AND NT ARE THE IDENTICALLY SAME GOD {singular}

[3] No but it introduces it and leads to it

[4] There is but One True GOD; Triune:

Jn. 10: 30 {Jesus speaking} “ [30] I and the Father are one.”

Jn. 3: 13-17 “[13] Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan, unto John, to be baptized by him. [14] But John stayed him, saying: I ought to be baptized by thee, and comest thou to me? [15] And Jesus answering, said to him: Suffer it to be so now. For so it becometh us to fulfill all justice. Then he suffered him.

[16] And Jesus{GOD THE SON} being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove {God the Holy Spirit} , and coming upon him. [17] And behold a voice from heaven, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. {God the Father” ALL THREE PERSONS OF THE BLESSED TRINITY IN ONE SAME PLACE AT THE SAME TIME

[5 & 6] Are saying exactly the same thing; just different nouns being used

[7] OK but Yahweh [God in the OT] is the SAME God as Jesus in the NT

God Bless friend,

Patrick
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
If you see "Yahweh" as God, so be it. Jesus said God has no name, merely the address of Father, which isn't used to define anyone else.

Created things have names. God has always been and there was no one before him to give him a name. (Apocryphon of John).

The Bible is a creation of Catholicism in the 4th century. And changed throughout time. If you wish to be orthodx and follow the creators of it, that's your choice. I did the same for 20 years, until explored and sought a lifetime of.understanding beyond the box of the orthodox.

When the Gospel is brought together by all of the spiritual writers, it becomes clear that the church chose a fleshly route over the "Spirit" leading them as it did Christ. Just the fact that the early catholic priests said that wealthy men (Constantine?) lead the way to heaven, and murdering men with a different view (heretics to the catholic ideology) of spiritual truth, should be the first sign of their rotten fruits.

Jesus taught spirit. He gave man the Spirit. The sword divides the spirit from the flesh. But as Galatians 1 says, the Gospel turned false with the addition of flesh back into the mix. The veil that was torn to signify a direct common with God through the Spirt, was repaired by the "priests" teaching that they gave the spirit (by the laying of fleshly hands). This was rebuked by Jesus when he said "the flesh profits nothing". And never touched his disciples when he gave them the Spirit.

See it as you wish. I follow no doctrine of men, as instructed by Christ.
 

Patrick Miron

Patrick4Jesus
If you see "Yahweh" as God, so be it. Jesus said God has no name, merely the address of Father, which isn't used to define anyone else.

Created things have names. God has always been and there was no one before him to give him a name. (Apocryphon of John).

The Bible is a creation of Catholicism in the 4th century. And changed throughout time. If you wish to be orthodx and follow the creators of it, that's your choice. I did the same for 20 years, until explored and sought a lifetime of.understanding beyond the box of the orthodox.

When the Gospel is brought together by all of the spiritual writers, it becomes clear that the church chose a fleshly route over the "Spirit" leading them as it did Christ. Just the fact that the early catholic priests said that wealthy men (Constantine?) lead the way to heaven, and murdering men with a different view (heretics to the catholic ideology) of spiritual truth, should be the first sign of their rotten fruits.

Jesus taught spirit. He gave man the Spirit. The sword divides the spirit from the flesh. But as Galatians 1 says, the Gospel turned false with the addition of flesh back into the mix. The veil that was torn to signify a direct common with God through the Spirt, was repaired by the "priests" teaching that they gave the spirit (by the laying of fleshly hands). This was rebuked by Jesus when he said "the flesh profits nothing". And never touched his disciples when he gave them the Spirit.

See it as you wish. I follow no doctrine of men, as instructed by Christ.

[1] If you see "Yahweh" as God, so be it. Jesus said God has no name, merely the address of Father, which isn't used to define anyone else.

[2] Created things have names. God has always been and there was no one before him to give him a name. (Apocryphon of John).

[3] The Bible is a creation of Catholicism in the 4th century. And changed throughout time. If you wish to be orthodx and follow the creators of it, that's your choice. I did the same for 20 years, until explored and sought a lifetime of.understanding beyond the box of the orthodox.

[4] When the Gospel is brought together by all of the spiritual writers, it becomes clear that the church chose a fleshly route over the "Spirit" leading them as it did Christ. Just the fact that the early catholic priests said that wealthy men (Constantine?) lead the way to heaven, and murdering men with a different view (heretics to the catholic ideology) of spiritual truth, should be the first sign of their rotten fruits.

[4] Jesus taught spirit. He gave man the Spirit. The sword divides the spirit from the flesh. But as Galatians 1 says, the Gospel turned false with the addition of flesh back into the mix. The veil that was torn to signify a direct common with God through the Spirt, was repaired by the "priests" teaching that they gave the spirit (by the laying of fleshly hands). This was rebuked by Jesus when he said "the flesh profits nothing". And never touched his disciples when he gave them the Spirit.

[5]See it as you wish. I follow no doctrine of men, as instructed by Christ.

The first to help you up are the ones who know how it feels to fall down.

#5Phantasman, Yesterday at 3:31 PM



Thank you for taking time to POST

A few brief comments on your POST

[1] JEHOVAH. Mistaken but common rendering of the letters JHVH or YHVH, transcribing the Hebrew letters representing the name of God. It should be Jahweh or Yahweh. Father Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary

[2] Interesting point; the Early Jewish community choose to “give” {know by} God a title

[3] The Bible was fully AUTHORED {the NT} byn the end of the 1st Century. The OT books {46 in number} were collected in the 1st Century.

The CANON of the Bible was SET in the late 4th Century

[4] Please read 2 Tim. 3:16-17 & John 17:17-20; what you suggest is a MORAL impossibility that would render the Bible as worthless; IT’S NOT! Which is why it is 2,000 YEARS OLD

[5] So your professing NOT to be a follower of Christ? … Does that make you a Mormon or LDS?

Shalom
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
[1] If you see "Yahweh" as God, so be it. Jesus said God has no name, merely the address of Father, which isn't used to define anyone else.

[2] Created things have names. God has always been and there was no one before him to give him a name. (Apocryphon of John).

[3] The Bible is a creation of Catholicism in the 4th century. And changed throughout time. If you wish to be orthodx and follow the creators of it, that's your choice. I did the same for 20 years, until explored and sought a lifetime of.understanding beyond the box of the orthodox.

[4] When the Gospel is brought together by all of the spiritual writers, it becomes clear that the church chose a fleshly route over the "Spirit" leading them as it did Christ. Just the fact that the early catholic priests said that wealthy men (Constantine?) lead the way to heaven, and murdering men with a different view (heretics to the catholic ideology) of spiritual truth, should be the first sign of their rotten fruits.

[4] Jesus taught spirit. He gave man the Spirit. The sword divides the spirit from the flesh. But as Galatians 1 says, the Gospel turned false with the addition of flesh back into the mix. The veil that was torn to signify a direct common with God through the Spirt, was repaired by the "priests" teaching that they gave the spirit (by the laying of fleshly hands). This was rebuked by Jesus when he said "the flesh profits nothing". And never touched his disciples when he gave them the Spirit.

[5]See it as you wish. I follow no doctrine of men, as instructed by Christ.

The first to help you up are the ones who know how it feels to fall down.

#5Phantasman, Yesterday at 3:31 PM



Thank you for taking time to POST

A few brief comments on your POST

[1] JEHOVAH. Mistaken but common rendering of the letters JHVH or YHVH, transcribing the Hebrew letters representing the name of God. It should be Jahweh or Yahweh. Father Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary

[2] Interesting point; the Early Jewish community choose to “give” {know by} God a title

[3] The Bible was fully AUTHORED {the NT} byn the end of the 1st Century. The OT books {46 in number} were collected in the 1st Century.

The CANON of the Bible was SET in the late 4th Century

[4] Please read 2 Tim. 3:16-17 & John 17:17-20; what you suggest is a MORAL impossibility that would render the Bible as worthless; IT’S NOT! Which is why it is 2,000 YEARS OLD

[5] So your professing NOT to be a follower of Christ? … Does that make you a Mormon or LDS?

Shalom
I never said I wasn't a follower of Christ. What made Jesus, Christ, was the anointing of the (Holy) Spirit. The Jews never had the Spirit.

The Jews said that god gave them his name. Jesus said that they have never heard his voice nor seen his shape.

Jesus also said that Moses didn't get his knowledge from heaven. As a Christian, I follow the Gospel, not the Bible. Jesus, not Moses.

Jesus said that the OT fathers died. I refuse to follow dead men, but the living Spirit.

It's what Christ taught.
 
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