• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Am I an Islamic Apostate?

Bismillah

Submit
I decided very early on that I had no problem believing that Mohammed was one of God's prophets. But at the same time I don't believe that he was the last or was any more special than the rest of the Biblical prophets. Now my Christian friends have said that makes me a Muslim. But if so, then am I an Apostate for not following the strict rules governing Islam? Can I believe that Mohammed was a prophet of God and not pray 5 times a day or observe ramadan?
The essential premise is the Shahada
لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله (lā ʾilāha ʾillallāh, Muḥammad rasūlu-llāh) There is no god but God, and Muhammad is the messenger of God.Belief in this makes one Muslim.
But if you categorically leave out "work" as a whole (all prayers, zakat, fasting Ramadhan), then yes you cannot be Muslim. Belief necessates at least some work based on this belief if it is genuine.
I don't think this is true, what is required is the belief that prayer is mandatory. However, if one does not pray does not make him non-Muslim. Belief that prayer is not mandatory however is kufr or disbelieve.
 

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
There is no god but God, and Muhammad is the messenger of God.

Right, and I only believe half of that. Muhammad is a messenger of God, no problems there, but I believe that all the Gods of all the religions are aspects of the same thing so the "No God but God" doesn't quite match up with my belief system.
 

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
Right, and I only believe half of that. Muhammad is a messenger of God, no problems there, but I believe that all the Gods of all the religions are aspects of the same thing so the "No God but God" doesn't quite match up with my belief system.
Ibn 'Arabi said "Those who adore God in the sun behold the sun, and those who adore Him in living things see a living thing, and those who adore Him in a lifeless thing see a lifeless thing, and those who adore Him as a Being unique and unparallelled see that which has no like. Do not attach yourself to a particular creed exclusively so that you disbelieve in all the rest; otherwise you will lose much good; nay, you will fail to recognize the real truth of the matter. God, the omnipresent and omnipotent, is not limited by any one creed. Wheresoever you turn, there is the face of Allah".

It doesn't have to match up - but it can if one wants.
 

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
Ibn 'Arabi said "Those who adore God in the sun behold the sun, and those who adore Him in living things see a living thing, and those who adore Him in a lifeless thing see a lifeless thing, and those who adore Him as a Being unique and unparallelled see that which has no like. Do not attach yourself to a particular creed exclusively so that you disbelieve in all the rest; otherwise you will lose much good; nay, you will fail to recognize the real truth of the matter. God, the omnipresent and omnipotent, is not limited by any one creed. Wheresoever you turn, there is the face of Allah".

It doesn't have to match up - but it can if one wants.

Oooo, I like that one a lot. Many thanks!
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Ibn 'Arabi said "Those who adore God in the sun behold the sun, and those who adore Him in living things see a living thing, and those who adore Him in a lifeless thing see a lifeless thing, and those who adore Him as a Being unique and unparallelled see that which has no like. Do not attach yourself to a particular creed exclusively so that you disbelieve in all the rest; otherwise you will lose much good; nay, you will fail to recognize the real truth of the matter. God, the omnipresent and omnipotent, is not limited by any one creed. Wheresoever you turn, there is the face of Allah".

It doesn't have to match up - but it can if one wants.

It reminds me of the Greek philosophers who said that if cows and horses could draw, we would see the gods as having the image of cows and horses.
 

fenrisx

Member
You may be interested to know that Prophet Muhammad himself forbade anyone to give him preference over other Prophets. (source).

I hardly think it matters whether others consider you a Muslim or not, what's relevant is what you consider yourself. Also it is an established position in fiqh that not praying 5 times a day or not observing ramadan does not take a Muslim out of the pale of Islam. (Such people are called fasiq Muslims).


I have no issue issue with Mohammed as a prophet either, but then I hold the Buddha in the same context, it's better not to factionalize religion, it all comes from the same source...
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
Ok, here is the situation. I grew up traveling. Spent a couple years in Algeria in the late 70s. Then on to Abu Dhabi and a visit or two to Saudi. Later in life I spent three years working very closely with Turks. I have also traveled Europe extensively and marveled at places like the Alhambra. I love history and tried to learn the cultrual history of the places and peoples I have lived.

lucky you.

I decided very early on that I had no problem believing that Mohammed was one of God's prophets. But at the same time I don't believe that he was the last or was any more special than the rest of the Biblical prophets.

in order to be a muslim one must accept the 6 pillars of Iman (faith) ie if you don't have faith in islam you are not of that faith.

the pillars are:
1. belief that Allah is the one and only god.
2. the believe in the Angels of Allah, those mentioned by name and those not mentioned
3. to believe in the Books of Allah, ie to accept that Moses, David, Jesus and Muhamed received those books from Allah and are true.
4. to believe in the Messengers of Allah, Adam being the first and Muhamed being the last.
5. to believe in the day of Judgement
6. to believe in the decree of Allah, the good of it and the bad of it.

if you don't or never have sincerely believed in all of them at the same time you never were a muslim, therefore you cannot be an apostate. however muslims believe that all humans are born muslims - it is our natural disposition - and it is the parents who make the child a non-muslim.


Now my Christian friends have said that makes me a Muslim.

you did good asking muslims about islam rather than go with what your christian friends said.

But if so, then am I an Apostate for not following the strict rules governing Islam? Can I believe that Mohammed was a prophet of God and not pray 5 times a day or observe ramadan?

prayer and ramadan are pillars of Islam and not of Iman (belief), praying and fasting are what distinguishes between obedient muslims and disobedient muslims among many other things. the Prophet has stated that the first thing man will be accounted for on the day of judgement is prayer, if it is in accordance then all his deeds will be in accordance, if it isn't in accordance then nothing else of his deeds will be in accordance. so by that those who hold fast to prayer and perform it regularly, they will also do all the other deeds such as fasting, and many other things. in another hadith it states that the most beloved thing to Allah is that wish a servant is constant it (that is in accordance to islamic law)

I think I can but I'm curious about what you think too.

from an islamic perspective all those who rightly believed will eventually enter paradise even though they may spend a very long time in hell for the sins that they committed on earth.

i hope my reply is clear, Allah knows best.
 

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
I decided very early on that I had no problem believing that Mohammed was one of God's prophets. But at the same time I don't believe that he was the last or was any more special than the rest of the Biblical prophets. Now my Christian friends have said that makes me a Muslim. But if so, then am I an Apostate for not following the strict rules governing Islam? Can I believe that Mohammed was a prophet of God and not pray 5 times a day or observe ramadan?

I think I can but I'm curious about what you think too.

The door to Islam is the Shahada (to testify that there is no God but Allah, and that Muhammad is His Messenger)

When a non-Muslims says the Shahada, he/she submits to God, and accepts the basics of Islam, which are the 6 articles of faith and the 5 pillars of Islam

If you have not yet taken the shahada, you would not be considered Muslim, though from your post I believe you are a Muslim in-progress

May God guide you to His Straight Path, and any time we could be of help at The Islam DIR forum, please feel free to post any question you may have there or through PM

With best wishes
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Please notice also that it's entirely possible to accept and believe in Muhammad without being a Muslim!

For example, every Baha'i world wide believes in Muhammad but is Baha'i, not Musilm. Of course, Baha'is also accept many other Divine Messengers, including (in no particular order) Buddha, Zoroaster, Christ, Moses, Krishna, the Bab, and Abraham!

Best regards, :)

Bruce
 
Top