Am I more kind than God?

[Kenny]

I recently laid hands on a girl in a wheelchair and prayed in the name of Jesus that she would walk. Nothing happened.

GREAT!! DON'T STOP DOING THAT.

But there are questions:
Did you build her faith first? Like Jesus?
Did you ask what she wanted first? Like Jesus?

 

[Kenny]

I remember laying hands on a diabetic taking 4 shots a day... I prayed and nothing happened... or did it?
A month later she was at 3 shots
A month after that she was a 2 shots a day
A month after that she was at 1 shot a day
A month after that she had no diabetes.

The question is, do we believe nothing happened? Or did we reverse what is written and say "We walk by sight and not by faith"

 

[Spiderman]

GREAT!! DON'T STOP DOING THAT.

But there are questions:
Did you build her faith first? Like Jesus?
Did you ask what she wanted first? Like Jesus?

I asked if I could pray for her... I'm not sure how to build people's faith, because I myself am lacking and it isn't through choice. If I could have the faith to move mountains and it was a choice, I would choose it. It isn't a choice but a Grace that God has to give me and I'm waiting for it.

I do think the prayer comforted her and so I'm glad I did it.

 

[Kenny]

I asked if I could pray for her... I'm not sure how to build people's faith, because I myself am lacking and it isn't through choice. If I could have the faith to move mountains and it was a choice, I would choose it. It isn't a choice but a Grace that God has to give me and I'm waiting for it.

I do think the prayer comforted her and so I'm glad I did it.

THAT was a GREAT thing!!!!

It is quite possible that is what she wanted... to be comforted and God used you to do it.

But building faith isn't as hard as one would think. And I think it is not only a Grace that God gives but also a choice. "Choose ye now...." as Moses and Jesus said.

Think of it this way... in a relationship, the more you spend time and "hear" the voice of your spouse, the more trust and the more love that is known to be there. It continues to grow through communication and experience,

Faith comes by hearing and hearing and hearing by the word of God. Rom 10:17.

The choice starts with us as only we can decide to hear and read and meditate on the words of Jesus and the words that speak about him. Faith is a muscle and only we can decide to exercise it. It grows when you feed it with the protein of God's words and exercising it. (As Jesus said, "the wise man is the one who hears the word and does it".)

One problem is that many times we want to move mountains (so to speak) and we haven't even moved a bucket of dirt yet. Jesus spent quite a bit of time (27/7) with the disciples before he sent them to heal the sick. The heard the words of Jesus, heard it again, probably asked questions, got taught again until they had the faith for healing the sick in His name. But they did have the choice to stay with it or just leave. (Later on they left and only the 12 stayed and one was a thief and a betrayer)

Building someone's faith works the same way... you have to teach them until they believe it. You teach, but it is up to them to believe it. (some do not as Jesus noted)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I remember laying hands on a diabetic taking 4 shots a day... I prayed and nothing happened... or did it?
A month later she was at 3 shots
A month after that she was a 2 shots a day
A month after that she was at 1 shot a day
A month after that she had no diabetes.

The question is, do we believe nothing happened? Or did we reverse what is written and say "We walk by sight and not by faith"

Or we wonder what else was going on at the same time, e.g. diabetes-controlling drugs or non-medicinal measures like diet, exercise, and weight management.

 

[Spiderman]

My point in creating the thread was that if I had the ability to heal all people of their infirmities, cleanse the lepers, Open the Eyes of the blind, make the paralyzed walk , give Enlightenment to the confused, I would do so...God can do all that and he refuses... The only conclusion I can come up with is that I'm more charitable than God.

 

[Tumah]

Are you trying to say that illness is a punishment for past actions?

I don't deny the possibility, but my point was that his feelings towards the man is only because of his present knowledge. With more knowledge it's possible that his feelings would change. G-d presumably has all the knowledge, so it's not possible to make a moral judgement about G-d unless you have that amount of knowledge.

 

[Tumah]

... and there goes the motive for charity.

If suffering God's righteous will, why work to alleviate it? Why work against God? Not only would it be futile, we'd be morally wrong... right?

If someone has leprosy, then God must have had a good reason for giving leprosy to him. Who are we to second-guess God and actually treat his illness. Am I right?

It's not true.
It's possible that this needy person was decreed to have X amount of money and I'm the messenger to provide that to him. Or that his suffering was meant to extend only until that precise point where I would alleviate it. I have an obligation to help other people. I don't have an obligation to inquire into why G-d has put him in his situation. G-d does His thing and I'm commanded to do mine.

 

[Nous]

I don't get why leprosy is not understood as merely the product of a bacterial infection (like other bacterial infections), which is something that does happen and possibly has to happen on this planet that is teeming wih life forms. That is, I don't understand leprosy in humans should be thought of as like an intentional act of someone to mutilate another person. After all, the bacteria are just trying to live, just trying to pay their monthly bills.

You mean that they evolved instead of being created, knowing what they would do?

Bacteria definitely evolve, and their hosts evolve. But I am not entirely sure those are essential facts in my comment. On the matter of bacterial infections and diseases that result from them, humans are not any different than any other animal. Likewise we depend on bacteria a great deal. With each meal we eat, humans slaughter zillions of bacteria who are happily living in our guts.

 

[Nous]

My point in creating the thread was that if I had the ability to heal all people of their infirmities, cleanse the lepers, Open the Eyes of the blind, make the paralyzed walk , give Enlightenment to the confused, I would do so...God can do all that and he refuses...

Of course, death makes everyone victorious over our diseases.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's not true.
It's possible that this needy person was decreed to have X amount of money and I'm the messenger to provide that to him. Or that his suffering was meant to extend only until that precise point where I would alleviate it. I have an obligation to help other people. I don't have an obligation to inquire into why G-d has put him in his situation. G-d does His thing and I'm commanded to do mine.

You just suggested that God could be using the leprosy to punish the person. Who are you to second-guess God?

If you work to thwart a just punishment - and you seem open to the idea that this is what the leprosy is - then are you actually helping?

If the leprosy isn't actually a punishment, I'm sure that God is more than capable of helping the leper without your assistance.

 

[Tumah]

You just suggested that God could be using the leprosy to punish the person. Who are you to second-guess God?

If you work to thwart a just punishment - and you seem open to the idea that this is what the leprosy is - then are you actually helping?

If the leprosy isn't actually a punishment, I'm sure that God is more than capable of helping the leper without your assistance.

That's my point. I'm not commanded to assist G-d in what He chooses to do. I'm not commanded to investigate G-d's Will outside of what is already stated in the codified Jewish Law. All I'm required to do is live by the Laws that He gave me. If my actions assist or thwart G-d, that's His problem, not mine and He's quite capable, I'm told.

If He didn't want this person to be assisted, then He shouldn't have commanded me to assist him, or He should have included a stipulation so as to exclude people like him. Since He didn't, if He allows me to be successful in my endeavor, then it must be because the omniscient Him already included my eventual aid in His plans for that person - and in fact commanded that I provide aid in order that I eventually come to aid him.

 

[Furball]

yes i am

 

[Spiderman]

I don't deny the possibility, but my point was that his feelings towards the man is only because of his present knowledge. With more knowledge it's possible that his feelings would change. G-d presumably has all the knowledge, so it's not possible to make a moral judgement about G-d unless you have that amount of knowledge.

With more knowledge, I would sacrifice myself for that poor souls healing not only physically but mentally, emotionally, and spiritually so that he wouldn't have the impulse or inclination to want to hurt people.

Yes, I would absolutely be willing to lay down my life if it meant that people could be healed and have sound healthy minds and spirits, so they wouldn't be inclined to want to hurt others.

It is sad that people have that inclination... Often people who struggle with that inclination can't make it go away.

 

[Jumi]

Bacteria definitely evolve, and their hosts evolve. But I am not entirely sure those are essential facts in my comment. On the matter of bacterial infections and diseases that result from them, humans are not any different than any other animal. Likewise we depend on bacteria a great deal. With each meal we eat, humans slaughter zillions of bacteria who are happily living in our guts.

I like to feed my friendly bacteria with something special so we can continue working well together, though I don't care for those bacteria that go against me that much.

 

[Jumi]

Yes, I would absolutely be willing to lay down my life if it meant that people could be healed and have sound healthy minds and spirits, so they wouldn't be inclined to want to hurt others.

It is sad that people have that inclination... Often people who struggle with that inclination can't make it go away.

People who have suffered themselves know what it is to suffer, I think there are wounds that are hard to heal but without them it may be that we might be less than what we are now. As much as I used to dislike the idea, suffering can lead to inner strength and conviction. There's no doubt that on the whole suffering is bad, but if you can carry it right, it can grow you into a better man.

 

[Enoch07]

I think the real question should be: Why did it take us mortal humans so much blood sweat and tears to find a cure for leprosy, whilst a supposedly omnipotent God can just heal them with the click of his fingers? Is God lazy or what?

Free will, if He had done it for us He would have taken away our chance to do it ourselves, thus interfering in our free will.

 

[Enoch07]

Antibiotics couldn't cure the guy in the OP. His flesh has rotted off too much.

My point is there's a lot of ugliness and suffering out there. If I could die today to end it I would. God doesn't have to lift a finger to help and he refuses.

Yes, he does refuse. Because if He fixed all of our problems then that interferes with free will. With freedom comes responsibilities, having to treat and cure diseases on our own is part of that burden.

 

[Deeje]

Except it isn't just for that, as we can infer from its "design." Consider the other possibilities:

Many other mammals have estrus; they go into heat. They're only interested in sex at times when it's likely to be procreative. Humans don't go into heat; they're still interested in sex even at times in the menstrual cycle when the female isn't fertile.

Many other mammals - including some of our closest relatives - have overt ovulation; obvious outward signs for when the female is fertile. Humans, OTOH, have covert ovulation; there's no obvious outward sign when a female human is fertile.

So... considering:

- our "design" has us interested in sex at non-fertile times, despite the fact that we could have been "designed" to only want sex when it's procreative, and

- our "design" deprives us of one of the most common tools an individual uses to only have procreative sex, if so inclined,

... tell us why on Earth you think that our designer intends for sex to be only for procreation.

Well, I'm glad you asked......

In creating humankind in his own image, he gave them qualities that animals do not need since their survival and reproductive cycles are programmed almost entirely by instinct. As a breeder of birds and dogs, and having lived in the 'ruraIs' for many years, am fully aware of how the reproductive cycle works. I am also aware that sex in the animal kingdom has nothing to do with "love"....which is one of the Creator's most dominant qualities....it has more to do with pheromones and instinct, so unless the female is ready to breed, the boys get buzzed off....sometimes violently.

The blokes are basically ready for sex any time the female is ready in nature, but in humans it is much more than an 'itch' that needs 'scratching'....or it should be. Sex produces children, sometimes as an unwanted 'side effect' of their 'scratching'......for humans this is unacceptable because we are governed by a much higher law. (whether we obey it or not) We should be respecting the transmission of life as something sacred......as God does, which is why there were so many laws governing sexual conduct in the Law of Moses. He made no such law for animals.

Since love can be expressed in many ways in the human kingdom, sexual expression is much more than a mechanical act designed to produce offspring. It is a legitimate expression of a deeper kind of love and intimacy between a committed couple. This is why humans have the institution of marriage and animals do not.

Mother animals and birds will raise their young with or without support from the fathers of their babies......some animals will mate for life...others are quite promiscuous...it all operates by programming. Since there is no morality in the animal kingdom, it makes little difference them or to God.....but humans are not like animals.....they have a moral code and the faculty of conscience. They also have a strong inbuilt sense of betrayal when a mate is "unfaithful" (married or not).

We also have a monthly cycle, rather than being fertile only once or twice a year, which means that we can have babies all year round, rather than just in one or two seasons.

We are created to reflect the kind of love that the Creator displays....deep and devotional......not the kind that animals usually display.

How does evolution explain this difference....don't tell me, let me guess....."natural selection"

 

[Araceli Cianna]

Yes, he does refuse. Because if He fixed all of our problems then that interferes with free will. With freedom comes responsibilities, having to treat and cure diseases on our own is part of that burden.

Good answer, but I'm not a monotheist, so I can't really reply without countering monotheism as a whole.