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America Is A Christian Nation

Skwim

Veteran Member
Or so it's claimed Here, Here, Here. and elsewhere.
From what I've gathered it means that the government adheres to Christian values, as do its citizens. Okay, but to be meaningful these values would have to be strictly Christian in nature. But are they? For those RF members here who subscribe to the notion that America is a Christian Nation, just which of these values are strictly Christian?

Or, perhaps this isn't what is meant by "America is a Christian Nation." If not, just what does it mean?

.
 
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Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
The Founding Fathers did not conceive of the United States as a Christian nation.

They conceived of it as being a free, secular republic tolerant of all faiths and none but with a majority Christian population and a heritage from Europe defined by a mixture of enlightenment, classical and biblical values.

Under Trump, America has lost any claim to calling itself a nation modelled on the example of Jesus.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Or, perhaps this isn't what is meant by "America is a Christian Nation." If not, just what does it mean?

As far as I can see it means that those who assert that America stands for what they believe in along with religious dog whistles to those who believe the same thing.

They don't as far as I can see pay attention to various passages in the Bible itself such as Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. when it comes to strangers from other countries.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
There are a whole lotta Christians here.
But I notice that many aren't very Christian.

Or as Jesus might have put it:


Luke 6:46 And why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I say?

Good question for the many Christian nativist, Trump voters in America.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Or as Jesus might have put it:


Luke 6:46 And why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I say?

Good question for the many Christian nativist, Trump voters in America.
I'm amazed that so many people who believe
Christianity is The Truth don't act accordingly.
 

Earthling

David Henson
Christians should be no part of the world. Who, after all, rules the world? John 14:30; John 15:19; James 4:4; Luke 4:1-8
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The Founding Fathers did not conceive of the United States as a Christian nation.
Some of them very well may have. George Washington reportedly got complaints from his troops that he made them pray too much.

... but whatever their personal motivations, the consensus result was secular.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
There are some pretty dismaying sentiments in the articles on those links, and even more dismaying comments on the ones that allow site-user comments.

An example from article:
Even atheists in America are free not to believe anything at all—but only because of our nation’s Christian-based values. We must remember that if we allow these non-Christian elements of our culture to take over and to obscure and misrepresent America’s basic foundation, that foundation will crumble, and we will all become enslaved—Christian and atheist alike.

An example comment:
Satan and his children are not afraid to provoke God and His children. These people literally mass murder own babies, because they cannot tolerate their own babies interfering with their own unmitigated hedonistic greed and ambitions. They want to disarm the nation in preparation for mass murdering us, because they cannot tolerate God and us interfering with their unmitigated hedonistic greed and ambitions.

I always find myself wondering, as you mentioned in the OP @Skwim, what specific Christian values the nation is based on that aren't also secular values anyway? Taking quick stock of the 10 commandments, considered some of the most important OT "rules to live by", a secular society has no choice but to discard the first 4 right out of the gate. And Jesus in the NT basically boils it down to 2 points:
  • Love God
  • Love thy neighbour as thyself
And even then, a secular society has to throw the first one out, and can't literally enforce the second, as is. I remain unsure how the ideals of put forth in the U.S. Constitution can be claimed to be built on a "Christian" foundation.
 

Earthling

David Henson
I always find myself wondering, as you mentioned in the OP @Skwim, what specific Christian values the nation is based on that aren't also secular values anyway? Taking quick stock of the 10 commandments, considered some of the most important OT "rules to live by", a secular society has no choice but to discard the first 4 right out of the gate. And Jesus in the NT basically boils it down to 2 points:
  • Love God
  • Love thy neighbour as thyself
And even then, a secular society has to throw the first one out, and can't literally enforce the second, as is. I remain unsure how the ideals of put forth in the U.S. Constitution can be claimed to be built on a "Christian" foundation.

Willful ignorance. They don't know the Bible and they don't know the Constitution. They, like most people, take a powerful ideology and transmogrify it into their own. They do this with the Bible and the Constitution, with Christian and American history. Like a wasp laying it's eggs in a spider so it's young will have something to feed upon. They don't care about the values of anything unless they can use it to their own ends.
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
Is Iran a Muslim nation? It's the predominantly percentage of the religious belief that determines a nations religious characteristic's. Most Americans identify with Christianity. Always have.
 

Mox

Dr Green Fingers
Under Trump, America has lost any claim to calling itself a nation modelled on the example of Jesus.

Trump might pollute the office, but it will endure Trump, America is not lost yet, not while it has good people who wont just shut up and allow Trump and his minions to do what the hell they want.

I have faith in American people. The American spirit is not so easily defeated. The American people I cannot accept, will so willingly allow their national identity to die.

Trump is just a symptom of an insidious infection, a fascist nationalist racist far right narrative. It infects a number of nations. It has been gestating for some time. :cool:
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
That's a good thing then. Shows that Christianity is a bunch of malarkey.
Or possibly....
- They don't really believe the consequences for their unchristian actions.
- They know the go to Heaven simply for what they believe, not what they do.
- They suspect their faith isn't true, & aren't sure how to act.
- They misread their scripture.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Or so it's claimed Here, Here, Here. and elsewhere.
From what I've gathered it means that the government adheres to Christian values, as do its citizens. Okay, but to be meaningful these values would have to be strictly Christian in nature. But are they? For those RF members here who subscribe to the notion that America is a Christian Nation, just which of these values are strictly Christian?

Or, perhaps this isn't what is meant by "America is a Christian Nation." If not, just what does it mean?

.

The phrase seems to mean a few things, depending on the source and context.

The first line of the first link above reads, "You’re probably aware of the countless and increasing instances in which our government is ceasing to acknowledge God as our creator God and to allow any display of religious expression in the public spaces. These efforts range everything from banning nativity scenes in the town square to prohibiting the prayer using Jesus’ name at high school football games."

That certainly implies that America's government is not a Christian government. but a secular one. So this author cannot mean by calling America a Christian nation that its government is Christian. So what does he mean?

A little further in, under the heading, "Uncover the Christian foundation of America," the author writes, "the vast majority of the men that founded our nation were evangelical Christians" Apparently, that's some or all of what some people think calling America a Christian nation means. That would be of no interest to many people. Why should anybody care what the founders' religious beliefs were?

The second link begins with, "Pastor Robert Jeffress is fighting back after he says his mega-church, First Baptist Dallas, was forced to take down two billboards advertising his upcoming sermon, "America is a Christian Nation." Once again, that doesn't sound like what a Christian nation would do.

That link later says, "The gist of my message this coming Sunday is to point out the historical evidence that, in fact, our nation was founded by Orthodox Christians who believed that the future of our nation's well-being depended upon our adherence to Christian principles," Jeffress told CBN News. This might be what Jeffress means by America being a Christian nation. If so, once again, even if he is correct, so what? Why should anyone alive today care if some of the founders held that opinion?

The third link seems to deal with cultural values. The author writes, "It is important to remember that America is set apart from every other nation on earth because its values and ideals were derived from the biblical notion that religion is a matter of conscience between every individual and his God."

This author seems to think that America has a unique set of values derived in part from his Bible, or that America was based on freedom of religious belief. Once again, to whatever extent that that is correct, so what? How does that make America a Christian nation? That's not a Christian principle and is not a biblical message, which includes commandments to worship and obey a particular god and no other.. Freedom of and from religion is a bedrock principle of secularism.

It seems that different thinkers mean different things when they make the claim that America is a Christian nation.

The only sense in which America is a Christian nation is that the majority of its population self-identify as Christians. Living amongst people who go to church on Sunday is meaningless to those that don't go, and such people have no reason to consider their nation Christian in any other sense.

America is a secular nation founded on principles not found in the Bible such as divided, limited, transparent government, democracy, church-state separation, guaranteed personal freedoms, and the like. Many of its citizens call themselves Christians, but neither they nor their religious beliefs define America's essential nature or the American experience.
 
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