American is drowning in welfare programs.

[Tarheeler]

While I support a social safety net, the byzantine proliferation of programs is just wasteful, confusing and ridiculous.

This sort of thing is the norm in the US, however. Americans never seem to reform or simplify, they just add more layers of complexity, more departments, more programs. Look at the tax code. Look at the dozens of investigative/law enforcement agencies. When a lack of interdepartmental communication led to the 9/11 debacle what did they do? -- create more departments.

Complexity = opportunity to skim funds.

I fully agree. And what makes it so bad is that there are so many models in use today (and for everything from taxation to education) that we could learn from, but we're so dead set against anything foreign that we just close our eyes and keep right on advancing towards the edge of the cliff.

 

[freethinker44]

Are we counting public schools as welfare programs, too? They are the most expensive one and are the largest portion of state budgets.

Or police, fire departments, the military, or corporate welfare.

Noticed those were conveniently left off the list. Not to mention medicare and social security. so it's not welfare they don't like, it's welfare that helps poor people. Welfare that helps people that don't need it, that is good.

 

[idav]

Are we counting public schools as welfare programs, too? They are the most expensive one and are the largest portion of state budgets.

I don't think spending money on education should count as welfare. Welfare is for all the people that can't afford to live because of no job or low paying jobs. Education is one way to avoid welfare.

 

[Assad91]

I count myself lucky enough that I don't have to rely on some government welfare program today. I was on food stamps for about 6 months a while back, but as soon as I didn't need them I took myself off the program. There are way too many able bodied and minded people who keep suckling on the government tit and are unwilling to make it on their own. I have no sympathy or respect for these sub-humans. I am of the mind that if you don't work, you don't eat. Hunger can be a great motivator even if you have to work two or three part time jobs. And these women with three or more kids expecting the government to take care of them. If you can't afford them, abort them, or put them up for adoption. There is a mass fringe of American society who if they lost all of their government support wouldn't know what the hell to do with themselves. How are these sheeple to survive without their wellfare check, or without their cell phone or xbox or widescreen tv?

Ah yes, the "needy" are not really "neddy", just lazy.

Because, you know, if you made it off foodstamps, everyone else can aswell!

 

[Adramelek]

Ah yes, the "needy" are not really "neddy", just lazy.

Because, you know, if you made it off foodstamps, everyone else can aswell!

The "needy" huh, what do they "need"? Some help to get by for a couple of months (the able bodied who are just down on their luck) or a government welfare program to suckle on for the rest of their worthless mundane lives?

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Riverwolf]

My grandparents didn't demand it. Of course they were born in the 1800's where the work ethic was still alive and taking charity was seen as a stigma..

And working conditions were hell, leading to child labor, poor wages, workers being fired for arbitrary reasons, 5 AM to 10 PM work hours...

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't think spending money on education should count as welfare. Welfare is for all the people that can't afford to live because of no job or low paying jobs. Education is one way to avoid welfare.

While I agree that public education shouldn't count as welfare, I would nevertheless argue that most welfare ought to exist as an aid to either avoid or get out of welfare.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I fail to see what the issue is. We should take care of each other. Even the welfare services we do have aren't really enough.

But I am a socialist, anyway.

 

[freethinker44]

My grandparents didn't demand it. Of course they were born in the 1800's where the work ethic was still alive and taking charity was seen as a stigma..

Yeah it was utopia before those pesky labor laws ruined everything.... for rich people.

 

[metis]

Yeah it was utopia before those pesky labor laws ruined everything.... for rich people.

Ya, my great-grandfather worked the iron mines (the Mather & the Humbolt) in the U.P. before the unions came in, and he was severely injured when another miner knocked him off the bucket when descending into the shaft. My great-grandfather was fired because he couldn't work any longer because his back and hip were broke, he had to go downstate to have an operation, and the mine owners paid him nothing. BTW, my grandfather had to quit school after the 8th grade because he was the oldest brother, so he needed to go to work and try and support the family.

Ah yes, the good old days.

 

[Curious George]

Yeah it was utopia before those pesky labor laws ruined everything.... for rich people.

I will frubal this later- If I could I would frubal the crap out of it. But, since I cannot frubal you right now and I can only frubal a post once, I will just do it with a bump later. :yes:

 

[freethinker44]

Ya, my great-grandfather worked the iron mines (the Mather & the Humbolt) in the U.P. before the unions came in, and he was severely injured when another miner knocked him off the bucket when descending into the shaft. My great-grandfather was fired because he couldn't work any longer because his back and hip were broke, he had to go downstate to have an operation, and the mine owners paid him nothing. BTW, my grandfather had to quit school after the 8th grade because he was the oldest brother, so he needed to go to work and try and support the family.

Ah yes, the good old days.

Sounds like he just had poor work ethic. :sarcastic

 

[Assad91]

The "needy" huh, what do they "need"? Some help to get by for a couple of months (the able bodied who are just down on their luck) or a government welfare program to suckle on for the rest of their worthless mundane lives?

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

I think the one who lacks compassion for his fellow people, is the one living a worthless life.

I believe it was Imam Ali (as) who said not to judge others for you don't know their story.

Yet you seem to know every person on welfare and their life story.

 

[Quagmire]

"We" nothing! I didn't demand it!

Well, on behalf of the other 313,899,998 citizens of the U.S., let me just say: sorry we didn't run it by you first.

 

[dust1n]

Just to name a few welfare state programs.....

Medicaid, Obamacare, Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP), Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women Infants and Children (WIC), School Breakfast Program and School Lunch Program, Summer Food Service Program for Children, Child and Adult Care Food Program, Emergency Food Assistance Program, Commodity Supplemental Food Program (CSFP), Nutrition Program for the Elderly, Section 8 rental assistance, Rural Rental Assistance, Rural Housing Loans, Rural Rental Housing Loans, Home Investment Partnerships (HOME), Community Development Block Grants (CDBG), Housing for Special Populations (Elderly and Disabled), Housing Opportunities for Persons with AIDS (HOPWA), Emergency Shelter Grants, Supportive Housing program, Single Room Occupancy program, Shelter Plus Care program, Home Ownership and Opportunity for People Everywhere (HOPE), Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), Child Tax Credit, Supplemental Security Income (SSI), Low Income Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP), Social Services Block Grant, Community Services Block Grant, Legal Services Corporation.


How did we ever let this happen?!?!

Which are you proposing to scrap?

 

[McBell]

The "needy" huh, what do they "need"? Some help to get by for a couple of months (the able bodied who are just down on their luck) or a government welfare program to suckle on for the rest of their worthless mundane lives?

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

Perhaps if the government did not work so hard to keep them suckling...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My grandparents didn't demand it. Of course they were born in the 1800's where the work ethic was still alive and taking charity was seen as a stigma..

Yes, back in the 1800's, where if had a dark skin complexion you worked your life away because you were considered property, and if you was a poor and had a pale skin complexion you worked your life away for hardly any money at all. And back in the good 'ole days a "good work ethic" included showing up to, getting, and remaining drunk while at work.

 

[freethinker44]

And back in the good 'ole days a "good work ethic" included showing up to, getting, and remaining drunk while at work.

Well, in their defense, that was the only way to bear the misery of the horrible working conditions.

 

[esmith]

Ya, my great-grandfather worked the iron mines (the Mather & the Humbolt) in the U.P. before the unions came in, and he was severely injured when another miner knocked him off the bucket when descending into the shaft. My great-grandfather was fired because he couldn't work any longer because his back and hip were broke, he had to go downstate to have an operation, and the mine owners paid him nothing. BTW, my grandfather had to quit school after the 8th grade because he was the oldest brother, so he needed to go to work and try and support the family.

Ah yes, the good old days.

And working conditions were hell, leading to child labor, poor wages, workers being fired for arbitrary reasons, 5 AM to 10 PM work hours...

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Yeah it was utopia before those pesky labor laws ruined everything.... for rich people.

I will frubal this later- If I could I would frubal the crap out of it. But, since I cannot frubal you right now and I can only frubal a post once, I will just do it with a bump later. :yes:

Sounds like he just had poor work ethic. :sarcastic

Yes, back in the 1800's, where if had a dark skin complexion you worked your life away because you were considered property, and if you was a poor and had a pale skin complexion you worked your life away for hardly any money at all. And back in the good 'ole days a "good work ethic" included showing up to, getting, and remaining drunk while at work.

Well, in their defense, that was the only way to bear the misery of the horrible working conditions.

What does working conditions have to do with the subject matter at hand. All it said was there was a work ethic and charity was seen as a stigma. Yes working conditions were considerably worse then than they are now (at least they had jobs) However, it seems that there are those who must attack anything that violates their sensibility even when it is not germane to the subject at hand.

 

[Brickjectivity]

If we aren't counting the price of free public schooling, then the other welfare programs are so small that they couldn't drown anything. It would be like drowning in a puddle.