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American Muslims Are Now More Accepting Of Homosexuality Than White Evangelicals

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Your decision to not provide a single example from among "the hundreds" that you claim is noted. While the scriptures clearly state that we should not covet anyone's belongings, I (too) cannot come up with a single verse that would imply, less state, that "if you want somebody else's land, you should kill all their men, women and boys and keep their virgin girls for yourself...". If this is to be an intellectually honest forum, please be more honest in your claims against scripture.
Fine, have it your way (though next time, buy your own Bible).

The Bible does appear to portray God’s judgment of Canaanites in harsh terms. Consider Deuteronomy 20:16-18

16 But in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes, 17 but you shall devote them to complete destruction, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded, 18 that they may not teach you to do according to all their abominable practices that they have done for their gods, and so you sin against the Lord your God.

It would have been easy for me to have omitted verse 18, of course, but then you'd get to complain "out of context!" Quite rightly, too. But here, we see that Israel is indeed planning (presumably because they think they have God's sanction -- but doesn't everyone in such circumstances?) to take the land of Canaan -- at the cost of the complete and utter genocide of the present inhabitants, yes? No?

But read that all again: "Their Gods?" Are there other gods, or only the one? If there's only the one -- and He's omnipotent -- why does Israel know that but not Canaan? Did God -- for whatever reason -- give ultimately important information to one part of His creation, and withhold it from another?

Also, I'd like to know about the "abominable practices" committed by the infants and young children, along with the donkeys and sheep and whatever else, that required leaving alive nothing that breathes. That is what it says. Kill everything. Complete, total annihilation, genocide right down to the babies -- commanded by God. And for what? For not believing what they've not been told, by the very God that now plans to kill them for not having been told?

In the words of those who don't tend to write as I do: "Give me a freakin' break!"

Now, add to that the totality of Joshua -- which goes into some quite orgiastic descriptions of the killing needed to accomplish this take-over. I'm not going to quote all of Joshua here -- I think it might irritate the membership. However, I will, at the risk of a nasty backlash, cite quite a bit of Numbers 31 -- which speaks quite directly to what I have said:

31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.”

3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel.” 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.

7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Now, to be perfectly clear -- all of this is by way of the Israelites, at the invitation and COMMAND of God, to take the land of Canaan for themselves -- at genocidal cost to the present inhabitants (except for the few virgin girls who get to live by getting boffed by their conquerors.) Tell me it isn't -- go ahead, make an apologetic case explaining how it was all God being omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
And yet no Western christian nation has homosexuality illegal or punishable by death.
Because none of them are Christian. They're secular. Christianity has been in decline in the West for quite some time. Its heyday was before the Enlightenment. Christians had no problem killing gays when they had the state power to do so. They're the ones who introduced the death penalty for gays, going back to late Antiquity. Islamic states just followed suit.
 
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Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
We'll find a solution.
Interesting answer (to the question "what if your child is gay"). But, you know, you won't find a solution. There is none, because the child's gayness isn't a problem -- the parent's dislike of it is the problem. This has been true of humans since the species started thinking.

We cannot fix what is natural. Some kids are born "the spitting image" of one of their parents. Other kids are born with traits that look like nothing else in the family. Some are born male, some female, and you don't fix those. Some are born with normal pigmentation, some (few) albino. Some have regular chromosomes and thus a reasonable hope of a high school education and maybe even university, while others with a defect on 23 will wind up with Downs Syndrome. Most will be born with typical sexual characteristics, and grow up just like their parents in that regard, and some will not.

The point of all that is this: none of those things is a "problem that can be fixed." There are no solutions to what happens naturally. The only real "solution" has everything to do with how everybody else -- including the parents -- work to accept what is, and to put their damned fears, prejudices and hatreds aside.

Because, when the parents, or the community, cannot accept what is, then the result is far too often just the sort of thing that happened to Neil in the wonderful film, "Dead Poet's Society."

Learn to appreciate (even love) others for who they are, not judge them for not being who you'd like them to be.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
And yet no Western christian nation has homosexuality illegal or punishable by death.

I believe as far as Christianity is concerned there is no need for a penalty since they are already reaping the wages of sin which is death but there is a need to call them to repentance to save them from death.

On the other hand the US mostly does not follow Christian principles on this and that community (LBGT) has been able to dupe a large portion of the population.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I believe as far as Christianity is concerned there is no need for a penalty since they are already reaping the wages of sin which is death but there is a need to call them to repentance to save them from death.

On the other hand the US mostly does not follow Christian principles on this and that community (LBGT) has been able to dupe a large portion of the population.


If Christians stand by and do nothing. Yes Christians can be held responsible for in the way the U.S.A is going.

Like this last election Christians stood up, and put a change in the Direction and which the USA is going.

But let's for say, That a Christians does not warn people in the danger in the way their going, Then Christians will be held responsible and the blood of those people will be on Christians hands.

But if Christians do give warnings of the danger in the way people are going, Then christians are not held responsible nor will the blood of those people be on Christians hands.
Ezekiel 3:18-19
Verse 18
"When I say unto the wicked, You shalt surely die; and you give him not warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his Wicked way, to save his life; the same Wicked Man Show died in his lawlessness; but his blood will I require at your hand"

Verse 19
Yet if you warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his Wicked way, he shall die in his lawlessness; but you have delivered your soul"

The question is, By who's hand shall the wicked die at?

There is no where in the New Testament that Christians are to kill, accept in self defense.
It is in the day of Judgement, At God's Judgement bar.then all cases will be determined good or bad.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I believe as far as Christianity is concerned there is no need for a penalty since they are already reaping the wages of sin which is death but there is a need to call them to repentance to save them from death.

On the other hand the US mostly does not follow Christian principles on this and that community (LBGT) has been able to dupe a large portion of the population.
Another view is that a large portion of the population is avoiding being duped by religion.
We're all susceptible to duping.
Gotta be careful.
 
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SinSaber

Member
Interesting answer (to the question "what if your child is gay"). But, you know, you won't find a solution. There is none, because the child's gayness isn't a problem -- the parent's dislike of it is the problem. This has been true of humans since the species started thinking.

We cannot fix what is natural. Some kids are born "the spitting image" of one of their parents. Other kids are born with traits that look like nothing else in the family. Some are born male, some female, and you don't fix those. Some are born with normal pigmentation, some (few) albino. Some have regular chromosomes and thus a reasonable hope of a high school education and maybe even university, while others with a defect on 23 will wind up with Downs Syndrome. Most will be born with typical sexual characteristics, and grow up just like their parents in that regard, and some will not.

The point of all that is this: none of those things is a "problem that can be fixed." There are no solutions to what happens naturally. The only real "solution" has everything to do with how everybody else -- including the parents -- work to accept what is, and to put their damned fears, prejudices and hatreds aside.

Because, when the parents, or the community, cannot accept what is, then the result is far too often just the sort of thing that happened to Neil in the wonderful film, "Dead Poet's Society."

Learn to appreciate (even love) others for who they are, not judge them for not being who you'd like them to be.

What is it any business of yours? You just going to kick down doors and tell people their wrong? I don't do that, why should you?

Your a liberal fascist. Simple as that. If my daughters and I find a solution where everyone is happy then everyone is happy. What's wrong with that? Nothing. You're a fascist

Also, no one has proven there's anything definitive in genetics. The standing theory across all sciences is that it is nature + nurture.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
What is it any business of yours? You just going to kick down doors and tell people their wrong? I don't do that, why should you?

Your a liberal fascist. Simple as that. If my daughters and I find a solution where everyone is happy then everyone is happy. What's wrong with that? Nothing. You're a fascist

Also, no one has proven there's anything definitive in genetics. The standing theory across all sciences is that it is nature + nurture.
What business is it of mine? You posted in a public forum -- which, as I understand these things, is a kind of open invitation to comment.
When I don't want people commenting about things I consider private, I don't publish them.

Liberal fascist -- is that a term of endearment, or are you really trying to slag me? I do wish posters could control their urge to be as nasty as possible, as often as possible. It does tend to lower the tone of the forum.

By the way, I agree with you: if your daughters and you "find a solution where everyone is happy," then that is a good thing. For myself, if I were in such a situation, I would, however, wish to be sure that my daughters were indeed happy -- for themselves -- rather than just saying so to please their father, as dutiful daughters are religiously supposed to do. I think that loving someone would make we want to know that.
 
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