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American voters oppose the Warlike Deep State

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I mean... it has become pretty crystal clear that many people are realizing that since the very beginning of the 21st century there has been an elitist gang of warmongers who have decided to fight and undo many countries with the pretext of the "just war".

It probably started much sooner than the beginning of the 21st century. I think many Americans saw it as far back as the 1960s and during the 1970s. They saw it when the Pentagon Papers story broke, as well as other revelations about the CIA, FBI, NSA, and other arms of the government came to light. As a consequence, there arose a strong undercurrent in public opinion which held a great deal of mistrust of politicians and government in general - something that has remained to the present day.

But the government has clearly countered such attacks and fought back against its accusers and detractors, which happened during the 1980s and 90s. They were mostly successful in shifting public opinion away from any kind of anti-war/anti-military sentiment, particularly by the time of the first Gulf War in 1990-91, when "support the troops" became the catchphrase of the day. I saw people I knew who were against US involvement in Vietnam do a complete 180 and fervently supported Operation Desert Storm.

Sometimes, truth is revealed in comedy:


Take a look at this: Starts at 0:29

I mean... is that something forgivable or amendable?

Presidential candidates saying war is okay will never win the elections. Any more.

I think public opinion has fluctuated on this point over the years. World War 2 was considered the "good war," and public perceptions regarding that war have influenced opinion regarding war in general, particularly the concept of a "just war." I've heard it said that, without Hitler, all these right-wing warmongers would be lost today. I remember Phil Donahue cleverly said in that context, "Hitler gave a good name to war." Any time someone wants to go to war, they seemingly conjure up the ghost of Hitler to remind and warn people of the danger they're in from the evil around the world.

It goes back to the notion of "Appeasement," which was viewed as a grave blunder on the part of the Allies. It led to the idea that if we don't stand up to [insert name of enemy] now, then it will be seen as weakness and will only encourage more aggressiveness, just like Hitler. That mentality was what influenced the policy of containment, rooted in the belief that communists must be met with force wherever they spring up.

They said that if we didn't stand up to the communists in Korea, they would just keep going, into Japan, across the Pacific, and into the U.S. They said that if we didn't stand up to the communists in Vietnam, the rest of Southeast Asia would fall like dominoes, according to the infamous "Domino Theory." Cuba was another sore point and had to be "quarantined," and when Nicaragua was taken over by the Sandinistas, a variation of the same Domino Theory was propagated, except in Central America, Mexico, then the U.S. (which Hollywood borrowed to write the script for "Red Dawn").

One thing that came out of the Vietnam era, at least from the militaristic side, was the belief that the reasons for fighting the war were not necessarily wrong, but it was the way it was fought that was wrong. Reagan, for example, criticized the fact that we sent troops to Vietnam, but their hands were tied and they were "not allowed to win." It echoes a line attributed to Patton: "The politicians never let us finish. They always stop short and leave us with another war."

That's kind of what they did in 1991 in Iraq. They stopped short and didn't finish. So, then they went back in 2003 to finish off Hussein. But they still didn't finish it, since Iraq was never fully pacified or under total US control. And Afghanistan was another debacle.

It's one thing to be a warmonger, but to be a warmonger who does not want to win the wars they're in - that's truly bizarre.
 

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Since this thread is about the USA wars...I mean...isn't that whataboutism?
;)
Yeah. Maybe. We just doubt your "noble" intentions. You're likely using this as an opportunity to smear Democrats alone. And you're making the fallacious claim that American voters oppose the warlike deepstate, better known as the military industrial complex. Most Americans support our war machine. However, I doubt that it's an overwhelming majority these days.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Whining about "whataboutism" is a pretty wimpy retort to exposing hypocrisy. ;)

Speaking of hypocrisy is like I had cheated on my husbands tens of times, and I would scorn my best friend for cheating on her husband just once.

That's shameless hypocrisy.

What the dems and many Americans are doing: they have waged countless wars in other continents, for zero reasons, and now they are reprimanding Russia for trying to solve a territorial controversy on their very border.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Yeah. Maybe. We just doubt your "noble" intentions. You're likely using this as an opportunity to smear Democrats alone.
Because they cannot understand that their warlike lust cost them the presidential victory.
And you're making the fallacious claim that American voters oppose the warlike deepstate, better known as the military industrial complex.
Yes, all commoners do. By commoner I mean a person who doesn't belong to any élite.
Most Americans support our war machine.
Most American élites. Not commoners.
 

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Speaking of hypocrisy is like I had cheated on my husbands tens of times, and I would scorn my best friend for cheating on her husband just once.

That's shameless hypocrisy.

What the dems and many Americans are doing: they have waged countless wars in other continents, for zero reasons, and now they are reprimanding Russia for trying to solve a territorial controversy on their very border.
You, like millions of Americans, are basking in shameless hypocrisy. This is, once again, why we are skeptical of your intentions.

If you renounced all military actions, all of them, we'd have a harder time. Most of us would eventually agree.
 

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Because they cannot understand that their warlike lust cost them the presidential victory.

Yes, all commoners do. By commoner I mean a person who doesn't belong to any élite.

Most American élites. Not commoners.
Sorry, buddy. Most Americans support some sort of military action or intervention. When I say most I do not mean all or overwhelming majorities.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Sorry, buddy. Most Americans support some sort of military action or intervention. When I say most I do not mean all or overwhelming majorities.
Not quite.
I have said many times I met American soldiers living in a Naval air station...
and no...their expectations were to remain in Italy and not to be sent to Iraq...or God knows where those warlike madmen would have sent them.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
No. Other unrelated factors caused the tiny narrow defeat this presidential election.
It's all intertwined.
The two Americas, especially Central America have countless problems so maybe American citizens desire that the US focuses on the defense of the American border rather than fueling a banal territorial controversy in Eastern Europe.
 

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Not quite.
I have said many times I met American soldiers living in a Naval air station...
and no...their expectations were to remain in Italy and not to be sent to Iraq...or God knows where those warlike madmen would have sent them.
Honestly, they should have never joined the Army or Navy. Many former soldiers/sailors might agree with me. I can't speak for them, so.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I mean... it has become pretty crystal clear that many people are realizing that since the very beginning of the 21st century there has been an elitist gang of warmongers who have decided to fight and undo many countries with the pretext of the "just war".
Your buddy putin is the biggest war monger on the planet. He's a war criminal, along with Netanyahu. And Netanyahu is doing his best to destroy Gaza so he can steal it from the palastinians. And yes it was Hamas that started that destruction but no one forced Israel to target hospitals and apartment buildings loaded with civilians. There's no reason for him to target aid workers and food convoys, which they did.

Go ahead and blame banks and elites, these people you like are criminals making criminal decisions to murder civilians. You use banks, so maybe look in the mirror and see who the real enemy is.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Honestly, they should have never joined the Navy. Many former sailors might agree with me. I can't speak for them, so.

Being a soldier means to defend a country...not to be sent to die in idiotic wars created by a criminal Military Industrial Complex.

And by the way... soldiers must love life to defend it.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I am pro-peace.

No. You are pro-surrender and pro-"might makes right".
You are also pro facism and pro dictatorships.

You merely pretend to be pro-peace.
To countries being invaded you say "just don't fight and let them take your country" and then pretend as if that constitutes "peace".

If nobody in 1940-45 would have resisted the Nazi's, all of europe would be part of the Third Reich today and there wouldn't have been any fighting (aside from the total extermination of jewish people, off course). And you would have called that "peace".

It's utterly sickening.

I am pro-West, and by West I mean a West that promotes peace and geopolitical stability.

You can't pretend to promote "peace" while not being prepared to take a stand and fight for peace.
To obtain and maintain peace and stability, one has to be prepared to take up arms and fight those who want war and destabilization.
But you oppose that also.

You aren't pro-peace. *staff edit*
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
It probably started much sooner than the beginning of the 21st century. I think many Americans saw it as far back as the 1960s and during the 1970s. They saw it when the Pentagon Papers story broke, as well as other revelations about the CIA, FBI, NSA, and other arms of the government came to light. As a consequence, there arose a strong undercurrent in public opinion which held a great deal of mistrust of politicians and government in general - something that has remained to the present day.

But the government has clearly countered such attacks and fought back against its accusers and detractors, which happened during the 1980s and 90s. They were mostly successful in shifting public opinion away from any kind of anti-war/anti-military sentiment, particularly by the time of the first Gulf War in 1990-91, when "support the troops" became the catchphrase of the day. I saw people I knew who were against US involvement in Vietnam do a complete 180 and fervently supported Operation Desert Storm.

Sometimes, truth is revealed in comedy:




I think public opinion has fluctuated on this point over the years. World War 2 was considered the "good war," and public perceptions regarding that war have influenced opinion regarding war in general, particularly the concept of a "just war." I've heard it said that, without Hitler, all these right-wing warmongers would be lost today. I remember Phil Donahue cleverly said in that context, "Hitler gave a good name to war." Any time someone wants to go to war, they seemingly conjure up the ghost of Hitler to remind and warn people of the danger they're in from the evil around the world.

It goes back to the notion of "Appeasement," which was viewed as a grave blunder on the part of the Allies. It led to the idea that if we don't stand up to [insert name of enemy] now, then it will be seen as weakness and will only encourage more aggressiveness, just like Hitler. That mentality was what influenced the policy of containment, rooted in the belief that communists must be met with force wherever they spring up.

They said that if we didn't stand up to the communists in Korea, they would just keep going, into Japan, across the Pacific, and into the U.S. They said that if we didn't stand up to the communists in Vietnam, the rest of Southeast Asia would fall like dominoes, according to the infamous "Domino Theory." Cuba was another sore point and had to be "quarantined," and when Nicaragua was taken over by the Sandinistas, a variation of the same Domino Theory was propagated, except in Central America, Mexico, then the U.S. (which Hollywood borrowed to write the script for "Red Dawn").

One thing that came out of the Vietnam era, at least from the militaristic side, was the belief that the reasons for fighting the war were not necessarily wrong, but it was the way it was fought that was wrong. Reagan, for example, criticized the fact that we sent troops to Vietnam, but their hands were tied and they were "not allowed to win." It echoes a line attributed to Patton: "The politicians never let us finish. They always stop short and leave us with another war."

That's kind of what they did in 1991 in Iraq. They stopped short and didn't finish. So, then they went back in 2003 to finish off Hussein. But they still didn't finish it, since Iraq was never fully pacified or under total US control. And Afghanistan was another debacle.

It's one thing to be a warmonger, but to be a warmonger who does not want to win the wars they're in - that's truly bizarre.
Your analysis is absolutely great.

I thank God that we lost the WW2. Because thanks to that defeat, our constitution has been rewritten and the word war has been called something primitive and repulsive.

Now someone wants to normalize it...but they are immediately silenced by the media. The media onslaught is tremendous here.
 
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