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An email I sent to an evolution prof at my alma mater

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
The Bible also says the son will not pay for the sins of the father, yet here we are paying for their sins and inheriting this imperfection. It seems as though to accept the story of Adam and Eve as literal you also have to accept your god, or at the very minimum one of his prophets writing on his behalf, is a liar.
Hey, genetics is genetics. If your parents have a genetic anomaly, odds are you'll have it too. Has life been so bad for you, that you haven't enjoyed much of it? It could be. But what a person experiences now, only lasts 70 - 100 years. After that, when the Resurrection occurs, and people are brought back to life -- with the chance to live forever, in perfect health, under perfect conditions, on Earth (all due to Jesus' sacrifice) (Revelation 21:3-4 and Romans 6:23) -- what happened in their previous 70 - 100 years will be forgotten! - Isaiah 65:17.
 
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McBell

Unbound
Hey, genetics is genetics. If your parents have a genetic anomaly, odds are you'll have it too. Has life been so bad for you, that you haven't enjoyed much of it? It could be. But what a person experiences now, only lasts 70 - 100 years. After that, when the Resurrection occurs, and people are brought back to life -- with the chance to live forever, in perfect health, under perfect conditions, on Earth (all due to Jesus' sacrifice) (Revelation 21:3-4 and Romans 7:23) -- what happened in their previous 70 - 100 years will be forgotten! - Isaiah 65:17.
Rather difficult to take you seriously when you are relying so heavily on a book that I do not share your belief in.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Hey, genetics is genetics. If your parents have a genetic anomaly, odds are you'll have it too. Has life been so bad for you, that you haven't enjoyed much of it? It could be. But what a person experiences now, only lasts 70 - 100 years. After that, when the Resurrection occurs, and people are brought back to life -- with the chance to live forever, in perfect health, under perfect conditions, on Earth (all due to Jesus' sacrifice) (Revelation 21:3-4 and Romans 7:23) -- what happened in their previous 70 - 100 years will be forgotten! - Isaiah 65:17.
Sounds like wishful thinking to me.

Also, irrelevant to the discussion.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Rather difficult to take you seriously when you are relying so heavily on a book that I do not share your belief in.

Yes, I understand that. You must have some interest in spiritual things, though, since you're on a religious forum.

If I may say this.....what the Bible really teaches, is not what mainstream Christendom teaches! They've been influenced by Pagan ideas; the actions of religions professing Christianity, for the most part, have not imitated Christ. They've lost God's guidance and spirit, which is needed to properly understand His Word.

Take care.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Let's see, someone being punished for another person's transgressions. Check. Blood sacrifice necessary for atonement. Check. Infinite punishment for a finite crime. Check.

"Infinite punishment for a finite crime."??? Nope, that is a false teaching, based on Pagan ideas. When a person dies, they are 'asleep' (John 11:11-13), "conscious of nothing at all." (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

That negates any suffering or torment.
Death is the payment for sin, not torment. --Romans 6:23
 

McBell

Unbound
Yes, I understand that. You must have some interest in spiritual things, though, since you're on a religious forum.
Fair enough
Hoever, I do not hold the Bible in the same regard as you.
Thus I am not a choir member.
If all you are looking for is chior members to agree with you, you are in the wrong place.

If I may say this.....what the Bible really teaches, is not what mainstream Christendom teaches!
This claim has been made numerous times throughout the years.
Interestingly enough, until you can can show that your beliefs are the "one true beliefs from the one true god" all you are doing is showing how your beliefs differ from others beliefs.
So, what makes you think you will be the first one in all of history to prove your beliefs are the "one true beliefs from the one true god"?

They've been influenced by Pagan ideas; the actions of religions professing Christianity, for the most part, have not imitated Christ. They've lost God's guidance and spirit, which is needed to properly understand His Word.
Another bold empty claim that has been repeated ad nauseum for years.
Pray tell, do you offer up anything new or are you merely going to regurgitate the same old same old?
 

McBell

Unbound
"Infinite punishment for a finite crime."??? Nope, that is a false teaching, based on Pagan ideas. When a person dies, they are 'asleep' (John 11:11-13), "conscious of nothing at all." (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

That negates any suffering or torment.
Death is the payment for sin, not torment. --Romans 6:23
see, more parading your take on the Bible.
Nothing more.

Again, it is rather difficult to take you seriously...
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
see, more parading your take on the Bible.
Nothing more.

Again, it is rather difficult to take you seriously...

I think the Scriptures are pretty clear on this subject, properly understanding the words used by the writers. For instance, Hell, and the Heb. and Gr. words used for it, have had their meanings skewed. But the truth in the Bible is there, if people are sincere in searching without having an a-priori commitment to a certain view.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I think the Scriptures are pretty clear on this subject, properly understanding the words used by the writers. For instance, Hell, and the Heb. and Gr. words used for it, have had their meanings skewed. But the truth in the Bible is there, if people are sincere in searching without having an a-priori commitment to a certain view.
So you think it's better to ignore conclusion wrought from reason?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Hey, genetics is genetics. If your parents have a genetic anomaly, odds are you'll have it too.
"Sin" is not a genetic condition, but rather acts that transgress against god. But even if it is a genetic condition, that god allowed it to be inherited means that the children are being punished for the "original sin" of the father. But instead of trying to make things right, god didn't even give Cain and Abel a chance.
But the truth in the Bible is there, if people are sincere in searching without having an a-priori commitment to a certain view.
A-priori refers to things that can be known without experiencing them, such as apparent truths like mathematics, and it refers to things that can be known through reason (such as, I can say with confidence you are breathing because you are alive, which is apparent because you made that post): It is in contrast to a-posteriori, which are things that require experience or empirical data to know (such as, I don't know the quality of the air you are breathing without analyzing it). How one views things are not a-priori, as they cannot be shaped or formed without experience, and they are highly subjective. To adjust your proposition, if the Bible is a book of truly a-priori truths, they would be known and apparent to all people of all cultures, but that is clearly not the case as we have far too much evidence that proves many peoples and many cultures have never known of the Bible, of Jehovah and Jesus, or of sin and salvation. We wouldn't have to be told about the Bible to know its alleged truths, and there wouldn't be much of a need for the whole bit about being "fishermen of men."
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
So you think it's better to ignore conclusion wrought from reason?


That's just it, Bible truth is reasonable -- unlike the Hellfire teaching: 'God is love, but He burns people.'

And, Bible truth is simple. Google "Galileo quote" and "simple truth."
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
That's just it, Bible truth is reasonable
It claims the earth is fixed and flat, that human parthenogenesis is possible, it claims rabbits chew their cud (even though they don't even make cud), it claims that pi is equal to three, it claims that bats are birds, and that some people lived for several centuries. There are many claims and passages in the Bible that are not reasonable, logical, or true.
 

McBell

Unbound
I think the Scriptures are pretty clear on this subject, properly understanding the words used by the writers. For instance, Hell, and the Heb. and Gr. words used for it, have had their meanings skewed. But the truth in the Bible is there, if people are sincere in searching without having an a-priori commitment to a certain view.
And as the over 100,000 denominations of Christianity shows, clear as mud.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Only when one doesn't understand the concept.

I'm pretty confident I understand it.

All humans are tainted with the 'sin' of the disobedient act of a mythical ancestor.

Would it be 'just' if the law treated a rapist's descendants for the rest of time as rapists and subjected them to whatever the harshest punishment for rape is?

Assume for a moment that this is how the law treats people; would you consider it 'just' if you had to spend 20 years of your life in prison because your great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather raped someone?
 

Nurion

Member
The most amazing thing about the original author's post is that he completely misconstrues the quote by Dr. Richard Lewontin:
1 " Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism.
2 It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated.
3 Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that Miracles may happen."

1 Regardless how absurd an idea may seem at first, scientists follow where the results lead them. Whether they like these results or not. In the 1970's plate tectonics was regarded as a joke in the geographic community. The idea seemed patently absurd. Yet more and more evidence piled up until now plate tectonics are regarded as a fact by most scientists. This is done because scientific studies can back these claims up. And if someone creates a bat****-crazy theory and wants to establish it as "the truth", scientists still accept that idea, and then procede research that topic to prove or disprove its validity.
2 We have a commitment to materialism due to the fact that we have no other way to test for cause and effect. We cannot establish connection between events unless there is a way to make it measurable. So any claim that is unfalsifyable is pretty much useless in predicting the state of the world or how it is going to change. This goes back to Karl Popper, who established this scientific principle.
3 Alowing for divine interventions in science would limit their applicability. If you cannot be certain that things will usually happen on a cause-effect basis, then you might as well not try predicting anything at all. At any time, God could show up and completely change the rules. If you try to take this into consideration, you cannot perform science, since God is an unknown factor. Imagine an insurance company trying to come up with a cost for yor partner dying of cancer, and then factoring in that he might be killed by Leprechauns riding radioactive deer. It just isn't any good. It does not help in predicting the probabilty of dying of cancer. So if you consider that something is God's work in a scientific study, you basically throw the towel, since you're admitting that you do not know what is leading to the state that we are observing today.

It's kind of like the rules of Blernsball in Futurama.
 

prometheus11

Well-Known Member
My empathetic side hopes you didn't send that letter to your professor because of its grammatical and scientific errors; however, I am more interested in his/her response more than the responses on this thread.

Did your professor reply? If so, can you get her/his permission to post it here?
 
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