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An insight into Early Christian Worship

  • Thread starter angellous_evangellous
  • Start date
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
I had a stroke of genius today. Maybe everyone already knows it, but I wanted to share it because I figured it out on my own.

I have always thought that early Christian worship was in the format of a symposium in a household with the celebration of the Eucharist.

Now I think that there may have been several different types of gatherings... and I'm thinking of Corinth...

- the love feast (that I thought was the only one)
- the reading of Scripture
- prophesy // speaking in tongues

This could resolve at least one question:

I think that in the reading of Scripture, Paul told women to be silent as in all the churches.

Then, in the prophetic meetings, Paul says that the prophesying women should cover their heads.
 
Otherright

Otherright

Otherright
angellous_evangellous said:
I had a stroke of genius today. Maybe everyone already knows it, but I wanted to share it because I figured it out on my own.

I have always thought that early Christian worship was in the format of a symposium in a household with the celebration of the Eucharist.

Now I think that there may have been several different types of gatherings... and I'm thinking of Corinth...

- the love feast (that I thought was the only one)
- the reading of Scripture
- prophesy // speaking in tongues

This could resolve at least one question:

I think that in the reading of Scripture, Paul told women to be silent as in all the churches.

Then, in the prophetic meetings, Paul says that the prophesying women should cover their heads.
Click to expand...

Your dissertation is on Paul's views toward women. How do you expect any of us to know more about it than you?

Which reminds me, isn't a deaconess mentioned in a non-Pauline canon writing?
 
Otherright

Otherright

Otherright
So, you think it was just during the reading of scripture that women were to be quiet, but at different times in the service, it was permitted.

OK, do you have historical precedence?
I'm trying to help you here.
 
Otherright

Otherright

Otherright
Is this referred to as a practice by early father such as Iraneus or Clement?

I'm helping you brain storm for support.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Otherright said:
Your dissertation is on Paul's views toward women. How do you expect any of us to know more about it than you?

Which reminds me, isn't a deaconess mentioned in a non-Pauline canon writing?
Click to expand...

haha - Usually when I figure something out, I find it later.

As for the deaconess - that's Phoebe, mentioned in an authentic Pauline epistle, Romans 16.1.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Otherright said:
Is this referred to as a practice by early father such as Iraneus or Clement?

I'm helping you brain storm for support.
Click to expand...

I haven't checked yet.

I was just thinking about the activity of women prophesying and just didn't think that it was part of the Eucharistic celebrations that I always imagined.

It's more a disconnected thought from my recent reading. It's sort of ineffable right now.... but no, I don't recall the church fathers saying much about worship formats. There's something in Justin Martyr about the Eucharist that's important for our understanding of the churches in Rome. As I recall, the early fathers aren't concerned with giving a detailed description of early worship.
 
Otherright

Otherright

Otherright
angellous_evangellous said:
I haven't checked yet.

I was just thinking about the activity of women prophesying and just didn't think that it was part of the Eucharistic celebrations that I always imagined.

It's more a disconnected thought from my recent reading. It's sort of ineffable right now.... but no, I don't recall the church fathers saying much about worship formats. There's something in Justin Martyr about the Eucharist that's important for our understanding of the churches in Rome. As I recall, the early fathers aren't concerned with giving a detailed description of early worship.
Click to expand...

Is this to assume then that there wasn't a set format at the time, other than perhaps reading aloud of scriptures and the Eucharist. What does the Didache say about this?
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Otherright said:
Is this to assume then that there wasn't a set format at the time, other than perhaps reading aloud of scriptures and the Eucharist. What does the Didache say about this?
Click to expand...

The Didache, if memory serves, only mentions the Eucharist.

I definitely think that the Eucharist had a format, and I used to think that the prophesy, reading of Scripture, and possibly speaking in tongues happened during the entertainment segment of the symposium. Now I think that it was a bit more fluid - perhaps mixing and matching within and without the symposium structure.
 
Otherright

Otherright

Otherright
angellous_evangellous said:
The Didache, if memory serves, only mentions the Eucharist.

I definitely think that the Eucharist had a format, and I used to think that the prophesy, reading of Scripture, and possibly speaking in tongues happened during the entertainment segment of the symposium. Now I think that it was a bit more fluid - perhaps mixing and matching within and without the symposium structure.
Click to expand...

OK, two things.
1) Where is the support for that? What are you seeing in literature that gives you that notion? Is there a hint at the Day of Pentacost?
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Otherright said:
OK, two things.
1) Where is the support for that? What are you seeing in literature that gives you that notion? Is there a hint at the Day of Pentacost?
Click to expand...

Support for what? I've said a lot.

In the literature I'm seeing a fragmented and conflicting set of worship practices. There's no continuity -- even in Justin. But in the NT, everything is so choppy and loosely connected. And in Corinth, the church was most likely fragmented and worshipping separately in different homes and each stressed a different form of worship - most obviously speaking in tongues and prophesy. So the tongues and prophesy were likely going on in separate worshipping communities.

I can even say that the way Paul regulates worship is divided into rich and poor, and say that the wealthy women prophesied (head-coverings = wealth) and the poor women had to remain silent (poverty = powerlessness). Now not everyone will agree with me on that, but it is possible.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Otherright said:
OK, two things.
1) Where is the support for that? What are you seeing in literature that gives you that notion? Is there a hint at the Day of Pentacost?
Click to expand...

Two things - three questions - one number

No, Pentacost is too early for this.
 
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