An odd place to be in.

[kashmir]

You really sound like a Buddhist to some extent. You are definitely non-theistic I will say. I recommend you look into non-theistic Paganism and Daoism.

about the scripture, one doesn't really need it to tell us that love is better than hate.
oddly, I once asked a pastor how do we know who is right and he said if the doctrine does not teach Gods love, it is wrong.
Ironically, all scripture has a combo of love and hate within its writings.

Scripture was written by man.

But what was written about Jesus and his walk on earth, had no hate within it, Jesus forgave everyone, and stressed over and over to love our enemies.
I don't follow his teachings, I knew this anyway.
If the whole world loved each other, no one would be starving or be homeless.

 

[Sha'irullah]

about the scripture, one doesn't really need it to tell us that love is better than hate.
oddly, I once asked a pastor how do we know who is right and he said if the doctrine does not teach Gods love, it is wrong.
Ironically, all scripture has a combo of love and hate within its writings.

Hahaha so you see the irony! Jesus only loves those who love him, if you do not love him then he hates you. It is a backwarded selfish love that is taught by many religions.
Many people may change doctrine but by doing so you ignore the validity of the canon text which is essentially cheating.

Scripture was written by man.

It was written by man for man.

But what was written about Jesus and his walk on earth, had no hate within it, Jesus forgave everyone, and stressed over and over to love our enemies.
I don't follow his teachings, I knew this anyway.
If the whole world loved each other, no one would be starving or be homeless.

This goes to show how religions cannot maintain face because they contradict themselves far too often. You should learn to expect this and disregard it in favor of innate morality and duty to humanity.

 

[Valjean]

Now I will heavily disagree with you on the afterlife though but atheism to me over the last few months has left a bitter taste in my mouth once I realized that it promotes so much negative behavior in people. The issue is that I do not know where it stems from but I have officially backed away from atheists altogether due to this.

I'm curious. What negative behavior have you seen in atheists? In my experience atheists have a more developed social consciousness and moral sense than those who've simply accepted the mythology they were born to.
Atheists actually think about right and wrong, they have an internalized morality many religious people, with their lists of shalts and shalt nots, often lack

 

[kashmir]

Hahaha so you see the irony! Jesus only loves those who love him, if you do not love him then he hates you. It is a backwarded selfish love that is taught by many religions.
Many people may change doctrine but by doing so you ignore the validity of the canon text which is essentially cheating.

The only way that makes sense is to say that Jesus offers a ticket to Heaven and if man declines the ticket, it's on him.
But the only way that makes sense is to say that then said man is not awaken once he dies.
Sending him to hell, is of complete contradictory.

I'm curious. What negative behavior have you seen in atheists? In my experience atheists have a more developed social consciousness and moral sense than those who've simply accepted the mythology they were born to.
Atheists actually think about right and wrong, they have an internalized morality many religious people, with their lists of shalts and shalt nots, often lack

In my perspective atheists are not any more developed than Theists,
atheists tend to think that just because they dont worship an invisible god, that puts him in a higher IQ level, as you are suggesting.
Nope.
atheists support some very cruel things as well.
Such as denying global warming, supporting abortion, and careless free sex.
Not all do that, but many do, so atheism is nothing but an empty title.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I'm curious. What negative behavior have you seen in atheists? In my experience atheists have a more developed social consciousness and moral sense than those who've simply accepted the mythology they were born to.

This is sort of true in a sense but when it comes to the arguments for or against god the amount of lying goes up a lot. I am very strict with this because my own mother is a profound liar so this became a bit of an issue with me as a child. I just despise lying to the point I cannot even tolerate a person if he or she is a persistent liar.
Even though I regard atheists as being morally superior there are just ticks that get to me primarily because they hit a strong peeve of mine. I cannot justify this of course but at the same time I witness it on a regular basis and in person it is even worst.
I know I am making an unfair assumption but this is why I am "agnostic" on the whole morality and religion issue now because I am saying worst behavior in atheists on a regular basis but I cannot make a proper argument for it.

Atheists actually think about right and wrong, they have an internalized morality many religious people, with their lists of shalts and shalt nots, often lack

I still find religious individuals to be robbed of immorality because "shalts and shan'ts" are laws not morals. Morals do not form on the basis of rulings and punishments.

 

[Sha'irullah]

The only way that makes sense is to say that Jesus offers a ticket to Heaven and if man declines the ticket, it's on him.
But the only way that makes sense is to say that then said man is not awaken once he dies.
Sending him to hell, is of complete contradictory.

Way too many holes .

In my perspective atheists are not any more developed than Theists,
atheists tend to think that just because they dont worship an invisible god, that puts him in a higher IQ level, as you are suggesting.

I have encountered so many atheist who like using philosophy and they don't even understand it. It seems to be taken for granted that the best philosophers were atheists so atheists asume philosophy rules in their favor. I see very moronic behavior with theists and atheists a like and the more pious I have become the more blatantly fallacy ridden both parties appear.

atheists support some very cruel things as well.
Such as denying global warming, supporting abortion, and careless free sex.
Not all do that, but many do, so atheism is nothing but an empty title.

Atheists are the ones who usually believe in global warming. The anti-global warming movement comes from Christians and their assertion that God protects the world forever. I have never meant an atheist who does not believe in global warming and I just went over this lack week with a bunch of atheists in my philosophies course

 

[kashmir]

I still find religious individuals to be robbed of immorality because "shalts and shan'ts" are laws not morals. Morals do not form on the basis of rulings and punishments.

If we begin to discuss punishments that were done in biblical days, and what is still done today, crucifixions, torture, lashes on the back, threaten death, etc..
We know that stuff does nothing but promote fear, it doesn't change ones world view though, nor makes one behave more moral to beat them half to death.

Not does doing said punishments deem the abuser anything short of evil themselves.

 

[kashmir]

Way too many holes .

Yep

I have encountered so many atheist who like using philosophy and they don't even understand it. It seems to be taken for granted that the best philosophers were atheists so atheists asume philosophy rules in their favor. I see very moronic behavior with theists and atheists a like and the more pious I have become the more blatantly fallacy ridden both parties appear.

yep, the other difference between atheism and theism is the belief in deities.

Atheists are the ones who usually believe in global warming. The anti-global warming movement comes from Christians and their assertion that God protects the world forever. I have never meant an atheist who does not believe in global warming and I just went over this lack week with a bunch of atheists in my philosophies course

not in the two forums I seen discussing this, as well as on the very link of the article.
I have seen atheists completely deny it and blame politic scare tactics.

 

[Sha'irullah]

een discussing this, as well as on the very link of the article.
I have seen atheists completely deny it and blame politic scare tactics.

I have never heard of this at all. How the Religious Right Is Fueling Climate Change Denial | Alternet

It is just a commonly accepted fact that Right wing politicians(christian) deny global warming and accuse atheist of spreading lies. You can pull out in for from sites like Iron Chariots(Atheist site) about how Global Warming is a fact. If you see an atheist arguing against Global Warming it sounds an awful lot like a mole. I have never met a single atheist or agnostic who denies global warming but only one who disapproves of homosexuality which is still a rarity for atheists.

 

[kashmir]

I have never heard of this at all. How the Religious Right Is Fueling Climate Change Denial | Alternet

It is just a commonly accepted fact that Right wing politicians(christian) deny global warming and accuse atheist of spreading lies. You can pull out in for from sites like Iron Chariots(Atheist site) about how Global Warming is a fact. If you see an atheist arguing against Global Warming it sounds an awful lot like a mole. I have never met a single atheist or agnostic who denies global warming but only one who disapproves of homosexuality which is still a rarity for atheists.

You dont have to look far bro
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-west-antartica-ice-melt-now-unstoppable.html

even the very weblink
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/5/12/antarctic-ice-melt.html

there is a whole slew of denial going on.
but lets not turn this into a morality argument about atheists.
Thanks

 

[DreadFish]

I'll chime in with my opinion.

I think that rejection of conventional religion is the first big step into the real world. I also recommend meditation and all that stuff that Windwalker has said.

Im not recommending that you read scriptures for the sake of subscribing to a certain school of thought but, I think it can be useful to discover various ideas and see how they apply to how you feel. Still beliefs are like clothes and it's easy to put them on and become something and think you are getting somewhere. I think you're in a good position in that you are not attached to any particular stream of thought or creed.

As far as my own advice on meditation, dont worry about thoughts being there. The whole effort to stop thinking just builds more pressure and creates more thoughts. There's a difference between thinking and thoughts. Thoughts come and go whether we're actively trying to think about anything. Thinking is when you are actively talking to yourself in your head about anything (my own definition ).

Anyway, like Windwalker said, meditation is about stepping back and relaxing and just watching whatever arises; thoughts that arise, feelings that arise, physical sensations that arise without judging them to be good or bad or this or that.

Tilopa's six words of advice on meditation are:

Don’t recall.
Don’t imagine.
Don’t think.
Don’t examine.
Don’t control.
Rest.

Which can be expanded to mean:

Let go of what has passed.
Let go of what may come.
Let go of what is happening now.
Don’t try to figure anything out.
Don’t try to make anything happen.
Relax, right now, and rest.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I'll chime in with my opinion.

I think that rejection of conventional religion is the first big step into the real world. I also recommend meditation and all that stuff that Windwalker has said.

Im not recommending that you read scriptures for the sake of subscribing to a certain school of thought but, I think it can be useful to discover various ideas and see how they apply to how you feel. Still beliefs are like clothes and it's easy to put them on and become something and think you are getting somewhere. I think you're in a good position in that you are not attached to any particular stream of thought or creed.

I totally agree with what you have said here. I have experienced so many religions that it just boggles me mind how I cannot claim to be something definite. So I stopped doing such a thing. I actually wear religions like I do clothes and just appreciate what they have then move on. I have developed a systematic approach to religions and how I deal with them.
I study them and learn from scriptures of all sorts and incorporate them int o my life. I have had the pleasure of experiencing Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Satanism, Paganism, Deism, Panentheism, Pantheism, Judaism(sort of) and even Atheism.

I meditate like a Hindu(Padmasana and gomok'hasana for the win!), pray like a Muslim, use Deism as a method of religious criticism, Satanism as an expressive tool, Panentheism for understanding God, Atheism to balance my mindset( I actually formulate reasons for Atheism), Paganism to provide structure, use Judaism as a way of formulating self-doctrine.

As far as my own advice on meditation, dont worry about thoughts being there. The whole effort to stop thinking just builds more pressure and creates more thoughts. There's a difference between thinking and thoughts. Thoughts come and go whether we're actively trying to think about anything. Thinking is when you are actively talking to yourself in your head about anything (my own definition ).

Anyway, like Windwalker said, meditation is about stepping back and relaxing and just watching whatever arises; thoughts that arise, feelings that arise, physical sensations that arise without judging them to be good or bad or this or that.

Tilopa's six words of advice on meditation are:

Don’t recall.
Don’t imagine.
Don’t think.
Don’t examine.
Don’t control.
Rest.

Which can be expanded to mean:

Let go of what has passed.
Let go of what may come.
Let go of what is happening now.
Don’t try to figure anything out.
Don’t try to make anything happen.
Relax, right now, and rest

Right on

 

[kashmir]

Tilopa's six words of advice on meditation are:

Don’t recall.
Don’t imagine.
Don’t think.
Don’t examine.
Don’t control.
Rest.

Which can be expanded to mean:

Let go of what has passed.
Let go of what may come.
Let go of what is happening now.
Don’t try to figure anything out.
Don’t try to make anything happen.
Relax, right now, and rest.

Thank you very much for your contribution. :yes:
I think this is exactly what I need, if only I can do it.
I would have more luck in throwing a rock and hitting the moon, but with a big nuff slingshot, even that is possible.

 

[DreadFish]

Thank you very much for your contribution. :yes:
I think this is exactly what I need, if only I can do it.
I would have more luck in throwing a rock and hitting the moon, but with a big nuff slingshot, even that is possible.

As fast as your mind seems now, it does get more calm with practice. I still have days where my mind is very active no matter what I do but, usually, I can calm it very easily now. It's just a matter of changing habits and constantly thinking and judging is an old habit that dies hard.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

The key to it is to be gentle with yourself, like you were training a puppy to only go on the newspaper. As it runs off, you gently pick it up and put it back on the paper until it goes to the bathroom only there. You don' hit it, scold it, grab its throat and threaten it, or any such thing. And you don't do that to yourself. You are gently training the mind to not run and pee all over anywhere it feels like it. It's mind training, pure and simple.

I hope that helps....

I wish someone had used a good direct metaphor like that when I was first learning meditation, lol!:yes:

another other route to meditation is to try to keep focused on one thought or image, rather than just watch them pass...while gently herding yourself back to the task when you start to wander off...like herding cats....

 

[Windwalker]

Let go of what has passed.
Let go of what may come.
Let go of what is happening now.
Don’t try to figure anything out.
Don’t try to make anything happen.
Relax, right now, and rest.

It's the "don't try to figure anything out" that is my go-to distraction! As phenomena arises, I find myself stepping back and trying to understand what it's about. It's probably my number one thing I do that pulls me out of meditation. But the lesson in catching myself doing this, translates into catching myself doing this throughout the day needlessly. It's appropriate to think about things, as to analyze particularly for me as it's my job I get paid to do. But to simply allow things to be when there's no reason to engage that part of my mind, lets the world flood in and my sense of being opens.

It's really quite amazing, take walking along outside. When you simply still that active thought and become quite in the mind, suddenly you hear birds singing that were there the whole time that you couldn't hear because of the dull roar of thoughts chewing away in your mind. You hear the grass blowing in the breeze, you feel the sun penetrate your skin, you become aware of yourself, and yourself in the world. You breathe air into the lungs, and exhale your being into the world in this exchange of life. And you are aware of all of this in that silence. In other words, what you learn on the cushion, translates into transforming how you live in the world!

So meditation is practice to advancing the mind into how we become as person. We no longer simply learn coping mechanism to stay afloat in the constant stream of anxious thoughts, just learning how to tread water and keep from drowning in the river. We learn to stand up in it, and to walk upon the water, so to speak. We master living and the mind through practice. We become calmer, clearer, fluid, open, centered, grounded, master rather than mastered.

One thing I wanted to add to your list here that I find important is that in practice on a daily basis (I practice a sitting meditation in the mornings), that every day is different, and a new lesson about ourselves. Do not expect repeat performances. Do not have expectations, but always be present with intention. I found this some time ago that can be practically useful when meditating:

I've added links to the terms at the bottom:

7 Factors of Enlightenment

When the mind is sluggish, it is not the proper time for cultivating the following factors of enlightenment:
tranquility, concentration, and equanimity,
because a sluggish mind can hardly be aroused by them.

When the mind is sluggish, it is the proper time for cultivating the following factors of enlightenment:
investigation of phenomena (dhammavicaya), energy (viriya) and rapture (piti),
because a sluggish mind can easily be aroused by them.

When the mind is restless, it is not the proper time for cultivating the following factors of enlightenment:
investigation of the phenomena, energy and rapture,
because an agitated mind can hardly be quietened by them.

When the mind is restless, it is the proper time for cultivating the following factors of enlightenment:
tranquility (passaddhi), concentration (samadhi) and equanimity (upekkha),
because an agitated mind can easily be quietened by them.

"But as for mindfulness (sati), monks, I declare that it is always useful."

(SN 46:53)

Descriptions in order from above:

dhammavicaya: Dhamma vicaya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
viriya: V
piti: P
passaddhi: Passaddhi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
samadhi: Samadhi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
upekkha: Upekkha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
​