gsa
Well-Known Member
There's even a king names Moroni? Wow.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
An Unpublished Manuscript & Book of Mormon
- Thread starter Christ's Lamb
- Start date
There's even a king names Moroni? Wow.
Christ's Lamb
~Catholic Mystic~
Yes, there is a lot of names similar, or exactly the same to the ones in the Book of Mormon. Some are Nephi, Lehi, Mormon, Moroni, Akish, Alma.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Well, that should be interesting. The original manuscript is now at Oberlin College in Ohio.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Chapter one starts like this:
As it is possible that in some future age this part of the Earth will be inhabited by Europeans & a history of its present inhabitants would be a valuable acquisition, I proceed to write one & deposit it in a box secured - - - - so that the ravages of time will have no effect upon it that you may know the author I will give a succinct account of his life and of the cause of his arrival which I have extracted from a manuscript which will be deposited with this history.
My name was Fabius The family name I sustain is Fabius, being descended from the illustrious general of that name. I was born at Rome & received my education under the tuition of a very Learned Master. At the time that Constantine arrived at that city and had overcome his enemies & was firmly seated on the throne of the Roman empire I was introduced to him as a young Gentleman of genius and learning & as being worthy of the favourable notice of his imperial majesty. He gave me the appointment of one of his secretaries, & such were the gracious intimations which he frequently gave me of his high approbation of my conduct that I was happy in my station.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
It continues:
One day he says to me Fabius you must go to Britain & carry an important - - - - to the general of our army there - - - - sail in a vessel & return when she returns. Preparation was made instantly and we sailed - - - The vessel laden with provisions for the army - - - Cloath -- knives and other impliments for their use had now arrived near the coasts of Britain when a tremendous storm arose & drove us into the midst of the boundless Ocean. Soon the whole crew became lost & bewildered. They knew not the direction to the rising Sun or polar Star, for the heavens were covered with clouds; & darkness had spread her sable mantle over the face of the raging deep. Their minds were filled with consternation and despair. & unanimously agreed that What could we do? How be extricated from the insatiable jaws of a watery tomb? Then it was that we felt our absolute dependence on that Almighty & gracious Being who holds the winds & floods in - - - hands. From him alone could we expect deliverance. To him our most fervent desires assended. Prostrate & on bended nees we poured forth incessant Supplication & even Old Ocean appeared to sympathize in our distress by returning the echo of our vociferos cries & lamentations. After being driven five days with incridable velocity before the furious wind the storm abated in its violence. but still the wind blew strong in the strong as I now believe in the same direction. Doubtful whether the wind had not changed her point we gave the ship full sail & let her drive. On the sixth day after, the storm wholly subsided, the sun rose clear and the heavens once more appeared to smile. Inexpressible was the consternation of all the crew. they found themselves in the midst of a vast Ocean. No prospect of returning. All was lost.
One day he says to me Fabius you must go to Britain & carry an important - - - - to the general of our army there - - - - sail in a vessel & return when she returns. Preparation was made instantly and we sailed - - - The vessel laden with provisions for the army - - - Cloath -- knives and other impliments for their use had now arrived near the coasts of Britain when a tremendous storm arose & drove us into the midst of the boundless Ocean. Soon the whole crew became lost & bewildered. They knew not the direction to the rising Sun or polar Star, for the heavens were covered with clouds; & darkness had spread her sable mantle over the face of the raging deep. Their minds were filled with consternation and despair. & unanimously agreed that What could we do? How be extricated from the insatiable jaws of a watery tomb? Then it was that we felt our absolute dependence on that Almighty & gracious Being who holds the winds & floods in - - - hands. From him alone could we expect deliverance. To him our most fervent desires assended. Prostrate & on bended nees we poured forth incessant Supplication & even Old Ocean appeared to sympathize in our distress by returning the echo of our vociferos cries & lamentations. After being driven five days with incridable velocity before the furious wind the storm abated in its violence. but still the wind blew strong in the strong as I now believe in the same direction. Doubtful whether the wind had not changed her point we gave the ship full sail & let her drive. On the sixth day after, the storm wholly subsided, the sun rose clear and the heavens once more appeared to smile. Inexpressible was the consternation of all the crew. they found themselves in the midst of a vast Ocean. No prospect of returning. All was lost.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
144 pages later, it ends...
But notwithstanding I disavow any belief in the divinity of the Bible, & consider it as a mere human production designed to inrich & agrandize its authors & to enable them to manage the multitude. Yet casting aside a considerable mass of rubbish & fanatical rant, I find that it contains a system of ethics or morals which cannot be excelled on account of their tendency to ameliorate the condition of man. & to promote individual social & public happiness & that in various instances it represents the Almighty as possessing attributes worthy of trancendent character. Having a view therefore to those parts of the Bible which are truly good & excellent I sometimes speak of it in terms of high commendation. And indeed I am inclined to believe that notwithstanding the mischiefs & injuries which have been produced by the bigoted zeal of fanatics & interested priests yet that such evils are more than counterbalanced in a Christian land by the benefits which result to the great mass of the people by their believing that the Bible is of divine origin. & that it contains a revelation from God.
The names Nephi, Lehi, Mormon, Moroni, Akish, Alma are never mentioned. (Actually, the book of Alma is itself considerably longer than the entire Spaulding manuscript.)
But notwithstanding I disavow any belief in the divinity of the Bible, & consider it as a mere human production designed to inrich & agrandize its authors & to enable them to manage the multitude. Yet casting aside a considerable mass of rubbish & fanatical rant, I find that it contains a system of ethics or morals which cannot be excelled on account of their tendency to ameliorate the condition of man. & to promote individual social & public happiness & that in various instances it represents the Almighty as possessing attributes worthy of trancendent character. Having a view therefore to those parts of the Bible which are truly good & excellent I sometimes speak of it in terms of high commendation. And indeed I am inclined to believe that notwithstanding the mischiefs & injuries which have been produced by the bigoted zeal of fanatics & interested priests yet that such evils are more than counterbalanced in a Christian land by the benefits which result to the great mass of the people by their believing that the Bible is of divine origin. & that it contains a revelation from God.
The names Nephi, Lehi, Mormon, Moroni, Akish, Alma are never mentioned. (Actually, the book of Alma is itself considerably longer than the entire Spaulding manuscript.)
Last edited:
Christ's Lamb
~Catholic Mystic~
That is a diffrent manuscript than the one I have.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
There is only one manuscript. There has never been a second one.
gsa
Well-Known Member
I have read about multiple manuscripts on Wiki. Are you sure about this?
Christ's Lamb
~Catholic Mystic~
The Mormon Church teaches the there is only one manuscript, but Spalding's family says otherwise.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Yes, I'm sure about this. The first time there was ever any talk about Joseph Smith having plagiarized the Book of Mormon from anything Solomon Spaulding wrote was when Philastus Hurlbut (yeah, that's a real person's name, believe it or not), an excommunicated Mormon looking to discredit Joseph Smith, interviewed members of Spaulding's family, who insisted -- as Christ's Lamb said -- that there were some very clear similarities between Spaulding's manuscript and the Book of Mormon. Hurlbut was involved with Eber D. Howe in the writing of an anti-Mormon publication, "Mormonism Unvailed." (The two of them were evidently collectively so bright that they were unable to spell "unveiled" correctly.) As his work with Howe progressed, Hurlbut got a hold of the manuscript, read it and, obviously to his dismay, discovered that there were absolutely no similarities between it and the Book of Mormon. "Mormonism Unvailed" was not primarily about the supposed relationship between Spaulding's work and the Book of Mormon, but in it's final chapter, Howe concluded the same thing and said as much. He conceded that the only Spaulding manuscript known to exist at that time had nothing to do with the Book of Mormon but speculated that Spaulding obviously must have written something else that Joseph Smith plagiarized from. By the mid-1840's, this manuscript that nobody had ever even seen had become the main anti-Mormon explanation for the Book of Mormon. The original manuscript (the one about the Roman ship driven off-course on a sailing to England in the 4th century) then disappeared for 45 years. A man by the name of L. L. Rice had purchased Howe's office and all of its contents and had the contents shipped to Honolulu where he lived. While going through the contents of his newly acquired stash of papers, he ran across it and turned it over to the president of Oberlin College (where it now resides). That manuscript has been examined by countless Mormons and non-Mormons and makes no mention of any of the individuals or places named in the Book of Mormon. You will not find a single scholar who believes otherwise; even the most vocal anti-Mormons around agree. No other manuscript has ever surfaced. Well, at least not until now. Christ's Lamb obviously has the incriminating manuscript in his hands. Where he picked it up, who knows.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Spaulding's family said so -- back in the 1830s -- but they never produced the supposed manuscript, not then and never since then. Nobody but you thinks there is another manuscript out there. If there truly is one, you, Christ's Lamb, are the only person on the face of this earth who is aware of it. Trust me, if such a document ever got into the hands of a rare documents dealer, it would cause an absolute media frenzy.
Last edited:
Norman
Defender of Truth
General religious debate
Norman
Defender of Truth
Norman: Thank You.
Norman
Defender of Truth
Norman: Hi Christ's Lamb, I don't know what you bought, how, what and where, however you purchased a false document that has nothing to do with the Book of Mormon. What are you trying to accomplish with this fairy tale manuscript? In the early 1800s, a man named Solomon Spaulding wrote a fictional story about ancient Romans who came to North America. Some critics of the Church have claimed that Joseph Smith used the manuscript to write the Book of Mormon. This claim has been discredited many times by people inside and outside of the Church. The Book of Mormon was translated from ancient records by the gift and power of God. It has no connection with the Spaulding manuscript.
Norman
Defender of Truth
Norman
Defender of Truth
Norman: Why do you continue on this façade of trying to deceive people. Your not going to deceive an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
It has already been pointed out to you that there was only one manuscript written by Spaulding; it is not the one that you claim to have, it doesn't exist, you are entangling
your self into a web of lies just to try and prove the Book of Mormon wrong. Your efforts are for naught, why don't you give it up?
gsa
Well-Known Member
How do you know the manuscript doesn't exist? Several people signed affidavits affirming its existence, after all.