An Unscientific Theory On Religion Forums

[Earthling]

Hmm, if memory serves, Hitler did a pretty good job of killing Jews. He used the teachings of Luther to inflame Catholic and Protestant Christians to subdue Jews.

 

[ecco]

The people who were allegedly responsible for the 911 attacks were not really responsible. The real people who did it only wanted to go to war in the Middle East. The last I counted, 13 of the 19 had been proven to still be alive and well. Link: BBC

Again, how do people who fly planes into buildings survive - the thirteen you speak of.

 

[Earthling]

Sorry for the incorrect designation. The term "Bible Believer" led me to think you were Christian. I didn't know there were any bibles other than the Christian Bible.

It's an understandable mistake. In fact when I first came here I had to check Christian as my religion because it was the closest of the choices available. Some think that in order to be a Christian you have to agree to the Nicene Creed. That's nonsense. According to the Bible you have to be baptized. Matthew 28:19-20 / Acts Of The Apostles 2:14 / Acts Of The Apostles 8:12

Who's going to baptize me? The apostate Christians who've adopted pagan teachings? The Jehovah's Witnesses who are false prophets? I'm on my own. I think that's the way it should be.

 

[Milton Platt]

Over the last 22 years or so I've been for the most part pretty active on forums like this, religious forums, and I've noticed something over the last decade. I see it here as well. The predominate participant in religious discussion are irreligious. Outspoken or militant skeptics of the Bible and spirituality. Now I understand that my message tends to alienate everyone, believer and unbeliever alike, and truth be told I prefer discussions with atheist because they are more practical than the average believer, who is idealistic IMO, so I'm not complaining, but I am of the opinion that the reason for this is that the believer is quite comfortable in America, but the atheist (in one form or another, I use the term skeptic) is a somewhat repressed minority, politically and socially.

Do you think there is any truth to that?

That is true generally, but it is gradually changing.

 

[Earthling]

Again, how do people who fly planes into buildings survive - the thirteen you speak of.

They didn't do it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Refuted by BBC:

BBC -The Editors: 9/11 conspiracy theory

Sorry, no loony videos allowed.

What drives a person to hate his fellow human beings so much that he has to believe dishonest claims by nuts?

 

[Subduction Zone]

They didn't do it.

Of course they did.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

They didn't do it.

I have always found it fascinating that people will refuse to accept scientific theories backed by centuries of scientific discoveries and mountains of evidence because "science can change at any moment", and yet those same people will latch onto the craziest conspiracy theories backed by nothing and claim that it is the incontrovertible truth.

 

[Cacotopia]

There is some efficacy to this. I think the numbers were embellished to draw attention away from the horrors that the victors committed during WW2. Nuking Japan, firebombing Tokyo, torture and wholesale slaughter of civilians by the allied nations. Russian soldiers were reported to have raped every German female they encountered from age 8-80. Among a great many other tragedies perpetrated by the allied nations.

Were there any prosecutions? Nope.

It's hard to look for information about the holocaust, most say up to 6 million, but when you look at how many say gyspies died, there are pretty specific numbers. Why have those figures so well documented but it's a round about number for jews.

That part doesn't add up.

Holocaust still happened, but I think the numbers are embellished.

 

[Cacotopia]

The guy in video towards the end turns to bat **** (moderator edit) crazy when he starts talking about the hell ovens.

 

[Cacotopia]

Hell is cooler than heaven according to science anyways.,

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is some efficacy to this. I think the numbers were embellished to draw attention away from the horrors that the victors committed during WW2. Nuking Japan, firebombing Tokyo, torture and wholesale slaughter of civilians by the allied nations. Russian soldiers were reported to have raped every German female they encountered from age 8-80. Among a great many other tragedies perpetrated by the allied nations.

Were there any prosecutions? Nope.

It's hard to look for information about the holocaust, most say up to 6 million, but when you look at how many say gyspies died, there are pretty specific numbers. Why have those figures so well documented but it's a round about number for jews.

That part doesn't add up.

Holocaust still happened, but I think the numbers are embellished.

Not a reliable source at all. He is seriously deranged:

 

[Cacotopia]

Not a reliable source at all. He is seriously deranged:

I am not taking his word as a source of information, I have had this discussion before.

 

[dianaiad]

There is nothing in atheism that requires other people to not believe.

You are quite correct. There is, however, something in MILITANT atheism that does, especially if that militant atheist gains the political power to enforce his ideas.

Remember the analogy I gave? militant atheism is to atheism as 'car' is to 'motor vehicle.'

Perhaps that very peaceful Buddhist over there wouldn't harm an ant. He is an atheist. Perhaps that secular humanist next door would give up his own life rather than take another's. He is also an atheist.

But neither one of them are MILITANT atheists, and that's what we are talking about here, isn't it?



[QUOTE="Thermos aquaticus, post: 5657691You need to brush up on your Chinese history. Genghis Kahn killed off millions of people, and he wasn't an atheist.[/QUOTE]

A couple of things: First, Genghis Kahn was not Chinese. He was Mongolian, and an enemy of China.
As well, even he didn't touch Mao's body count. The highest total of deaths anybody attributes to Genghis Kahn is 40 million...and Mao's death toll BEGINS at 40 million, and is probably closer to 80 million.

If you can find an officially atheist (not 'officially secular, but officially atheist, as in...no religions allowed) government that has NOT been horrifically homo/democidal, I would love to hear about it. I really would.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am not taking his word as a source of information, I have had this discussion before.

I saw that in your prior post. Just underscoring the bat**** crazy nature of that preacher.

 

[Cacotopia]

Why such a specific number for the lack of documentation of people imprisoned in labor camps? I would have liked to think the Germans kept pretty good records of everyone in their regime, but now there are no documents or lists of Jews interred in camps? That doesn't add up. But For institutionalized people, mentally deficient, gypsies, homosexuals, etc etc, there are far more specific numbers of killed during WW2 by the Nazi regime.

Why are those figures specific and why are the numbers of Jews rounded? I am curious what the actual close figure is. I know that that number may never be found, but the certainty people say it with is absurd.

 

[dianaiad]

Hmm, if memory serves, Hitler did a pretty good job of killing Jews. He used the teachings of Luther to inflame Catholic and Protestant Christians to subdue Jews.

Indeed he did. He comes in a distant third to Stalin and Mao. I'm not claiming that theists and theistic governments have not been murderous; they have. My claim is that there has never been an officially atheistic government (as in; no religion allowed) that was NOT murderous.

Not ALL those officially atheistic governments beat out Hitler, but two or three of 'em certainly did. Oh...and although Hitler used religion when he thought he could get away with it, even he didn't claim to rule as a theocracy.

The Spaniards running the Inquisition did a pretty good job of killing non-believers (mostly Jews).

The witch hunts in Europe killed tens of thousands of people, mostly Christians.

The Catholic - Protestant wars in Europe killed many Protestants - Catholics.

Oh, then there was the invasion of Muslim lands by Christians and the invasion of Christian Lands by Muslims.

Let's not forget the Christian invasion of the Americas that led to the elimination of a the vast majority of indigenous peoples.

All these were done "In the name of God" and "For God's Greater Glory".

this is true. So? There have ALSO been theocracies that were NOT murderous.

My claim is that there has never been an officially atheistic government that wasn't. It has nothing whatsoever to do with what religious leaders have or have not done.

The LEAST one can get out of this is the obvious; it's not religion that causes the problem, not when getting rid of religion not only doesn't solve the problem, it raises the death toll.

Mao Tse Tung did indeed kill millions. However, he did not do it "In Name of Atheism" or "For The Greater Glory of Atheism". He eliminated religion in the same way and for the same reasons as he eliminated any competing force.

His atheism didn't STOP him from killing anybody, did it? Isn't that the claim...that getting rid of religion would make the world a better, more rational, kinder and 'truer' place?

If that were true, then those atheistic governments would have been idyllic. Everybody would be sitting around campfires singing "Imagine."

Well, wadda ya know. It didn't work.

 

[Cacotopia]

Some was italicized, while that preacher in particular I would not count as an accredited source of information, he's just another joe schmoe flapping his lips, but try and look up a close estimate of jews dying during holocaust, it all says 6 million, with a note saying there are few documents supporting that figure in the same article.

I would hate to think that the holocaust has been used as a political machine. Which is an atrocity in and of itself.

 

[Cacotopia]

Ideas are peaceful

Executing those ideas are not.

 

[Earthling]

The guy in video towards the end turns to bat sh*t crazy when he starts talking about the hell ovens.

Yeah. Well, even before that he starts talking about the apostate Christian hell. A Couple years ago I would have been revolted at the Idea of Holocaust revival, but I ran across a video by a young Jewish student (recorded in the early 90's) named David Cole who went to Auschwitz because he thought it all wasn't adding up. The crazy Christian in the video just happens to have the best presentation.