Ancient Beliefs vs. Modern Science

[Nova Centauri]

Religion, in some form or fashion, has been around since the dawn of mankind. Animalism, shamanism, sun gods, etc. Ancient humans did not have the knowledge or technology to understand various sciences. When in doubt, beliefs turned to the supernatural or divine.

In the modern world, we are exploring space, have a greater understanding of various sciences, able to view astral bodies beyond our solar system, and can readily explain most phenomenon described by ancient religions. This leads me to a question that I ponder about from time to time:

What leads people to religion? I am not debating the existence of a god, but rather, what makes someone feel the need to believe in such a god, especially in this modern age? It seems to me that people spend more time disagreeing between various religions, than they do actually following what those religions supposedly teach.

Just an observation.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Many of modern folks tend to see the mythology of religion as an obsolete way of looking at the world. We tend to interpret myths as some type primitive counterpart of modern science. That in a more rational reasonable world, all mythology would be rejected.

There are more modern ways at looking at Mythology take the works of Joseph Campbell.

Joseph Campbell believed that mythology (one of the methods of teaching truth that religion uses that has no counterpart in modern science)

Cambells view on the different functions of Mythology:

-The Mystical Function, experiencing the awe of the universe;
-The Cosmological Function, explaining the shape of the universe
-The Sociological Function,supporting and validating a certain social order.
-Pedagogical Function,how to live a human lifetime under any circumstances.

The Human Brain seems to be well wired to use myths as teaching method in helping us to be balanced and mentally healthy.

 

[fallingblood]

Religion, in some form or fashion, has been around since the dawn of mankind. Animalism, shamanism, sun gods, etc. Ancient humans did not have the knowledge or technology to understand various sciences. When in doubt, beliefs turned to the supernatural or divine.

That's not really true. Often, when in doubt, they stated exactly that. Or they created other hypothesis based on the best information at that time. The problem is that many modern people now look at the myths in which ancient people created, and believe that they are meant to be literal, when they never were meant to be. Instead, with our modern focus, we often miss the actual meaning of these ancient myths.

In the modern world, we are exploring space, have a greater understanding of various sciences, able to view astral bodies beyond our solar system, and can readily explain most phenomenon described by ancient religions. This leads me to a question that I ponder about from time to time:

Science has a limits, and does not explain most phenomenon. One of the big questions is what is the meaning of life. Science can not answer that question, as it isn't a scientific question. Science simply does not have the tools, nor was it ever intended, to answer questions like that.

What leads people to religion? I am not debating the existence of a god, but rather, what makes someone feel the need to believe in such a god, especially in this modern age? It seems to me that people spend more time disagreeing between various religions, than they do actually following what those religions supposedly teach.

Just an observation.

The problem is that people want to make religion and science into opponents. However, that simply is not the case. Religion and science deal with two very different ideas, and try to solve two different types of problems. Religion was not meant to explain the ideas in which science does.

People have a need to religion, or in particular, a framework or working hypothesis. For some, religion is just the right working hypothesis that a person needs. It makes sense to them, it connects for them, and it gives them a framework to think through.

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

Religion, in some form or fashion, has been around since the dawn of mankind. Animalism, shamanism, sun gods, etc. Ancient humans did not have the knowledge or technology to understand various sciences. When in doubt, beliefs turned to the supernatural or divine.


...

I don't view ancient cultures to be stupid just because they worshiped multiple gods. Most, like Ancient Egypt and Greece had fully functioning societies. Created their own languages, number systems and arithmetic. Which is the the very foundation of what we still use today.

It is somewhat naive for people to automatically assume just because people believed in gods or still do are stupid.

 

[Skwim]

Religion, in some form or fashion, has been around since the dawn of mankind. Animalism, shamanism, sun gods, etc. Ancient humans did not have the knowledge or technology to understand various sciences. When in doubt, beliefs turned to the supernatural or divine.

In the modern world, we are exploring space, have a greater understanding of various sciences, able to view astral bodies beyond our solar system, and can readily explain most phenomenon described by ancient religions. This leads me to a question that I ponder about from time to time:

What leads people to religion? I am not debating the existence of a god, but rather, what makes someone feel the need to believe in such a god, especially in this modern age? It seems to me that people spend more time disagreeing between various religions, than they do actually following what those religions supposedly teach.

Just an observation.

Comfort and reassurance. Religion is a crutch when things go bad; it offers solace and hope for betterment. It's an affirmation of one's worth, and it offers an up-side to death. And even though it comes at a price, it's one many eagerly pay.

 

[idea]

The more we know, the more we know we don't know...

 

[painted wolf]

Comfort and reassurance. Religion is a crutch when things go bad; it offers solace and hope for betterment. It's an affirmation of one's worth, and it offers an up-side to death. And even though it comes at a price, it's one many eagerly pay.

I think that's grossly simplistic.

Religion offers quite a lot more than just comfort....

It also provides:

Community
Core rules for behavior and consequence for disruptive behavior
Cultural cohesion
A shared sense of origin and place in the universe
A means to connect to ones ancestors
A way to influence the forces of the universe in ones favor

and so on.

Plus there is research that shows that humans (and other animals) behave better when they feel like there is an invisible "witness" to their actions. Regardless of it's being supernatural or not.

wa:do

 

[Skwim]

I think that's grossly simplistic.

And I would say, to the point.

Religion offers quite a lot more than just comfort....

It also provides:

Community
Core rules for behavior and consequence for disruptive behavior
Cultural cohesion
A shared sense of origin and place in the universe
A means to connect to ones ancestors
A way to influence the forces of the universe in ones favor

and so on.

Pretty much agreed; although, I fail to see where " influence the forces of the universe in ones favor" comes into religion. I do see where some people feel they can do this, but I have yet to see it happen. As it stands, I believe those I listed are the more persuasive ones.

Plus there is research that shows that humans (and other animals) behave better when they feel like there is an invisible "witness" to their actions. Regardless of it's being supernatural or not.

wa:do

No doubt, but this isn't what leads people to religion. It's just one of its unintended benefits. It scares people into being good.

 

[gnostic]

Science has a limits, and does not explain most phenomenon.

But limits are "good".

Science used methodology in order to help us uncover the mystery (of any given phenomenon) that we seek to explain, through observation, through repeated (and independent) testings and through empirical evidences, that are far more objective than faith and belief.

Even though, science can't explain everything, nor can religion. There are actually far more things that religions can't explain than science.

None of the scriptures, including the bible, thoroughly and correctly explain any natural phenomenon. It only give often vague or sketchy description that any poet of their time could describe. Saying the sun rise in the east and set in the west, is hardly explanation of a genius.

In the Book of Job, God's ranting of what He can do that Job can't do in Job 38 to 40, sounds like ridiculous superstition.

One of the big questions is what is the meaning of life. Science can not answer that question, as it isn't a scientific question. Science simply does not have the tools, nor was it ever intended, to answer questions like that.

You're right, the meaning of life cannot explain through science. It is more philosophical question or even a religious question.

However, none of religious scriptures that I have encounter give us a satisfactory answer. They are often vague, conflicting (within its own religion or conflicting with others, outside religions).

I think there is more than one answer to the "meaning of life". There is a whole bunch of them - some concern with the person's inner self, others concern with the people they already know or people they will meet, and others still about what sort of life one would like to live or lead. The meaning of life, would only have meaning specifically for him or her, and the meaning would be different for everyone else.

I am being vague, because everyone is different, so I can't tell what give your life meaning, because it would be the same as mine or other people. Like I said, the meaning of life question falls in the realm of philosophy.

 

[painted wolf]

And I would say, to the point.

:jiggy:

Pretty much agreed; although, I fail to see where " influence the forces of the universe in ones favor" comes into religion. I do see where some people feel they can do this, but I have yet to see it happen. As it stands, I believe those I listed are the more persuasive ones.

I didn't say it actually worked but conformation bias does a lot to make it feel like it does.

No doubt, but this isn't what leads people to religion. It's just one of its unintended benefits. It scares people into being good.

No, that's true... but it does show that we are biologically primed for that aspect of religious/magical thinking. We are evolved to be able to project agency even to things that aren't there.

wa:do

 

[fantome profane]

Plus there is research that shows that humans (and other animals) behave better when they feel like there is an invisible "witness" to their actions. Regardless of it's being supernatural or not.

wa:do

So who needs "God" when we have surveillance cameras?

 

[Nova Centauri]

I don't view ancient cultures to be stupid just because they worshiped multiple gods. Most, like Ancient Egypt and Greece had fully functioning societies. Created their own languages, number systems and arithmetic. Which is the the very foundation of what we still use today.

It is somewhat naive for people to automatically assume just because people believed in gods or still do are stupid.

Who said anyone was stupid?

 

[painted wolf]

So who needs "God" when we have surveillance cameras?

Even fake cameras can significantly reduce crime.

But they have to be highly visible.

wa:do

 

[fantome profane]

Even fake cameras can significantly reduce crime.

But they have to be highly visible.

wa:do

Or perhaps people just need to have faith in invisible cameras.

 

[gnostic]

Or perhaps people just need to have faith in invisible cameras.

I saw one...just the other day.

It was invisible, but I saw it.

 

[papi_rico1981]

What leads people to religion? I am not debating the existence of a god, but rather, what makes someone feel the need to believe in such a god, especially in this modern age? It seems to me that people spend more time disagreeing between various religions, than they do actually following what those religions supposedly teach.

Just an observation.

I think people (including myself) are afraid of the unknown. Specifically about what happens after death. Also we are social animals and as such, love to be on teams. If it wasn't religion; then it would be something else. In life you can see this in many other facets. Sports, politics, etc.

Science can not answer that question, as it isn't a scientific question. Science simply does not have the tools, nor was it ever intended, to answer questions like that.

Science may have never been intended to answer these question, which is arguable. But it definitely can and does. Science may not have all the answers but that is its strength in my opinion.

 

[Skwim]

I didn't say it actually worked but conformation bias does a lot to make it feel like it does.

To me, the following says it actually works.

"Religion offers quite a lot more than just comfort....

It also provides: A way to influence the forces of the universe in ones favor."
​

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Religion, in some form or fashion, has been around since the dawn of mankind. Animalism, shamanism, sun gods, etc. Ancient humans did not have the knowledge or technology to understand various sciences. When in doubt, beliefs turned to the supernatural or divine.

In the modern world, we are exploring space, have a greater understanding of various sciences, able to view astral bodies beyond our solar system, and can readily explain most phenomenon described by ancient religions. This leads me to a question that I ponder about from time to time:

What leads people to religion? I am not debating the existence of a god, but rather, what makes someone feel the need to believe in such a god, especially in this modern age? It seems to me that people spend more time disagreeing between various religions, than they do actually following what those religions supposedly teach.

Just an observation.

The same thing that leads people to wanting to discover extraterrestrial life or something else that isn't really essential to living to discover; it's out of curiosity.

Religion helps us discover the truth of beyond; but that's not to say there's such thing as "the truth of beyond" but it helps us find "a truth of beyond"

 

[Alceste]

I agree that there is no reason to frame science as a competitor for religion. As SJ Gould put it, science and religion are non-overlapping magesteria. Science asks only "how". Religion asks only "why." Science is for the head, religion is for the heart.

What draws me to taoism is that I appreciate the value of practice (any practice), and think it is a fairly good use of a life to be in harmony with nature, including my own nature. I appreciate the simplicity and clarity of the Tao te Ching, and it reflects my own philosophy very well.

 

[painted wolf]

To me, the following says it actually works.

"Religion offers quite a lot more than just comfort....

It also provides: A way to influence the forces of the universe in ones favor."
​

If you ask a devout Christian if prayer works they will say yes.

If you ask a tribal hunter if their pre-hunt rituals actually work they would look at you like you're an idiot... why do it if it doesn't work?

Or the guy who always wears his lucky tie on a date or interview or whatever.

Now we both know that empirically none of these has any actual influence other than mental conditioning.... but the people who do them genuinely believe that they work.

And that is ultimately all that matters. They feel like they have the power to influence their own fates.

Historically that is the major factor that drives conversion from one faith to another... when cultures clash, the loosing side often looses faith in their religion first. All other aspects of their culture will persist longer.

But once you realize that your rituals are no longer working to turn things in your favor, you will drop them in favor of new rituals, often co-opting the invaders rituals. Then, if those ones don't help it's just converting to the invaders religion.

An example of this is how the Ghost Dance religion started.

wa:do