Ancient Greeks and little boys...

[Just_me_Mike]

Simple questions... Is there any indication as to why these men preferred boys to other types of relationships?

I mean if I throw out an oddball idea, like maybe the women were less desirable back then cause they might have stunk, or didn't shave, I dunno.

What I am getting at is, do we have any indication that it was purely a homosexual thing, or something different.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Furthermore, if this was a common practice, I just want to go on record to say Greece should have been destroyed sooner that later, as the idea repulses me something awful, even though it was an "accepted" part of society. :yes:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Sexual availability was quite different in the ancient world. Male children and male/female slaves were sexually available to anyone that the father allowed. The Romans did prefer adults (I believe), and it would be a grave insult to violate the son of a freeborn citizen without the express permission of the father.

The reason for pederasty in Greece is rooted in their misogyny, and it was concentrated in Athens - Sparta apparantly did not do it. The pederastic relationship was a part of education - in Athens, a boy from a wealthy family would learn grammar at a school and then advanced knowledge in a particular trade or subject by following an older man who would engage the boy sexually. As soon as the boy grew facial hair, the relationship would be over.

In Athens, wealither women were not allowed outside, so almost all public interaction was between males. It's quite natural that we see more homoerotic contact between men.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I think it's a possibility that because the ancient Greeks and Romans were more open to homosexuality in general, not just pedestry, men in those societies didn't feel as threatened if they were to engage in something like that. I've given this a lot of thought myself, and it's also made me think, if homosexuality wasn't so taboo in our societies, would more men engage in gay activities?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Pagans don't view sex like Abrahamics mike. Sex isn't something dirty and sinful outside of a commited relationship. Sex is always sacred, no matter the circumstances. It's holy

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I mean if I throw out an oddball idea, like maybe the women were less desirable back then cause they might have stunk, or didn't shave, I dunno.

haha, no

Women were less desirable because wives were only for children and generally not for recreational sex.

Recreational sex was reserved for concubines, prostitutes, and slave girls.

Boys and men were preferred because women were considered to be malfunctioning men. The closest thing to a women would be a boy about ten years old with no facial hair.

Think male-centered patriarchy.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Absolutely disgusting...
I can't imagine my 10 year old son experience such things.
I find it barbaric and monstrous that it was such a casual thing back then.

Oh well, glad I wasn't part of it! :yes:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Absolutely disgusting...
I can't imagine my 10 year old son experience such things.
I find it barbaric and monstrous that it was such a casual thing back then.

Oh well, glad I wasn't part of it! :yes:

There are some complaints - I know where one is right off the bat if you have the stomach for it.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

There are some complaints - I know where one is right off the bat if you have the stomach for it.

Sure... Though I am not sure what you mean...

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Sure... Though I am not sure what you mean...

Plutarch's son preserves this:

Plutarch's Morals: ethical essays - Google Books
Moralia 700s
For Protogenes, the yielding of the female to the male was called by the ancients “the favor.” Thus Pindar says Hephaestus was the son of Hera “without any favors.” And Sappho, addressing a girl not yet ripe for marriage, says to her, ‘You seemed to me a little girl, too young for the favor.’ And someone asks Hercules, ‘Did you obtain the girl’s favor by force or persuasion?’

But the love of males for males, whether by rape or voluntary – effeminately submitting, to use Plato’s words ‘to be treated bestially’ – is altogether a foul and unlovely…

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Plutarch's son preserves this:

Plutarch's Morals: ethical essays - Google Books
Moralia 700s
For Protogenes, the yielding of the female to the male was called by the ancients “the favor.” Thus Pindar says Hephaestus was the son of Hera “without any favors.” And Sappho, addressing a girl not yet ripe for marriage, says to her, ‘You seemed to me a little girl, too young for the favor.’ And someone asks Hercules, ‘Did you obtain the girl’s favor by force or persuasion?’

But the love of males for males, whether by rape or voluntary – effeminately submitting, to use Plato’s words ‘to be treated bestially’ – is altogether a foul and unlovely…

Good for Plato... there are things I don't like about him, but I like this part that he found it wrong.

did I read the correctly?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Good for Plato... there are things I don't like about him, but I like this part that he found it wrong.

did I read the correctly?

Plato is hard to nail down - he contradicts himself on almost everything.

But this essay uses what Plato said to argue against pederasty.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Some could take that saying of Plato's as his being against homosexuality in general, and I know some would be all too willing to embrace that interpretation.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Some could take that saying of Plato's as his being against homosexuality in general, and I know some would be all too willing to embrace that interpretation.

Plato goes both ways.

In the Timaeus, he sets forth the idea that the gods seperated us into male and female, and our destiny is to find our one soul mate.

Elsewhere he argues (I believe Laws) that the gods seperated us into pairs: male/male; female/female; and male/female, and our lot in life is to find our mate.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

Plato goes both ways.

In the Timaeus, he sets forth the idea that the gods seperated us into male and female, and our destiny is to find our one soul mate.

Elsewhere he argues (I believe Laws) that the gods seperated us into pairs: male/male; female/female; and male/female, and our lot in life is to find our mate.

Maybe just like everyone else his view point changed a lot.

 

[Oberon]

I think it's a possibility that because the ancient Greeks and Romans were more open to homosexuality in general, not just pedestry, men in those societies didn't feel as threatened if they were to engage in something like that.

Not really. Roman sexual dynamics revolved not around homosexuality vs. heterosexuality but around penetration. The worst thing for a Roman vir was to become "like a woman" an be penetrated. In other words, it didn't really matter what he penetrated, man or woman, as long as he wasn't the one being penetrated. Not really "more open." Just different.