Animal Rights

[Yerda]

Anyone here interested in animal rights? Any veggies or vegans? What are your views on animals in sport? Or animals in burgers?

 

[Runt]

I am all for animal rights. I do not think animals should be mistreated. This includes animal sports. I am not against eating animals... but that is because I respect ALL life, not just animal life, and if I stop eating something that is alive because I respect it then I will have to stop eating ALL things that are alive because I respect them... and this includes plants too. Without meat or plants, what will I eat? *shrugs* So I eat meat, and I eat plants... though sometimes I feel bad when I think that my survival basically is dependent upon consuming the charred remains of what were once living organisms.

 

[Yerda]

Yes, those are common and possibly valid responses to the question of meat eating. I used to share them. However, although it is not possible to live a life free of cruelty, and a person must eat to survive, limiting the suffering caused to animals is mainly my concern. Plants do not appear to suffer (although appearances can be deceiving) whereas although animals may not need to suffer they do. The torture experienced by animals simply to feed people is hard to believe, when it is to produce dairy products only, I find it inexcusible.

The veal and egg trades are two of the worst things I ever discovered. Milk, cheese, etc is produced at great suffering to the cows.

 

[Green Gaia]

I'm a vegetarian. I tried going vegan, but just can't do it right now. Animal rights and welfare are a factor in my dietary choices, but not the only reason or even the main reason. I don't believe there is a problem with eating meat and dairy in general, but I do find the way we get most of our food today is deplorable. For food items that are largely unnecessary in the human diet, a great deal of suffering takes place. I choose to not add to that suffering any more than I have to.

 

[Yerda]

One thing that bothers me, we're constantly informed of the benefits of milk, it's a good source of calcium - your teeth and bones will be damaged without milk. But we didn't exactly develop on cow's milk. It's hard to imagine pre-human primates chasing cattle around hoping to score some milk. It makes sense to then presume we don't need cow's milk. And since we are weaned off our mother's milk early in life we don't need milk at all. In fact I'm sure the calcium etc. that milk provides us can be easily attained elsewhere. And it probably is.

It's just a shame that so many people are raised on products that cause a great deal of stress and suffering.

 

[Tualha]

I'm a vegetarian, and I'd be a vegan but my mother wont allow it under her house. I feel that while I wish I could stop eating things, and survive, I can't. And so, I've decided to harm as little as possible. But this is a very personal thing, because I feel it's wrong for me to push it on another. If someone asked me about it, I'll tell them about it, but other than that I try not to push it on others.

I only wish others would do with me. Both of my sisters are trying to convince me to go back to meat eating, saying it's not healthy for me. They've both giving me things with fish in it, one saying it was artificial. I'm just happy my parents both support me, because it's hard to deal with my sisters the way they are. I understand where they come from, and that they're concerned for me, but they don't even know the facts.

 

[Green Gaia]

One thing that bothers me, we're constantly informed of the benefits of milk, it's a good source of calcium - your teeth and bones will be damaged without milk. But we didn't exactly develop on cow's milk. It's hard to imagine pre-human primates chasing cattle around hoping to score some milk. It makes sense to then presume we don't need cow's milk. And since we are weaned off our mother's milk early in life we don't need milk at all. In fact I'm sure the calcium etc. that milk provides us can be easily attained elsewhere. And it probably is.

It's just a shame that so many people are raised on products that cause a great deal of stress and suffering.

You're exactly right. I often wonder about how humans started drinking the milk of other animals in the first place. I'm sure it was an act of desparation or indulgence of the time, but we now know we don't need cow's milk and that it can do harm to both us and the cow we're taking it from (depending on how the cow is treated). While I don't go out of my way to avoid cheese, although I eat very little of it, I will not drink cow's milk anymore, nor do I eat eggs.

It is very easy to find plant-based sources of calcium and all essential nutrients. Check this out: Plant-Based Sources for Key Nutrients.

 

[Green Gaia]

I'm a vegetarian, and I'd be a vegan but my mother wont allow it under her house. I feel that while I wish I could stop eating things, and survive, I can't. And so, I've decided to harm as little as possible. But this is a very personal thing, because I feel it's wrong for me to push it on another. If someone asked me about it, I'll tell them about it, but other than that I try not to push it on others.

I only wish others would do with me. Both of my sisters are trying to convince me to go back to meat eating, saying it's not healthy for me. They've both giving me things with fish in it, one saying it was artificial. I'm just happy my parents both support me, because it's hard to deal with my sisters the way they are. I understand where they come from, and that they're concerned for me, but they don't even know the facts.

I would ask your sisters what they think you need from meat that you can't get from a plant based diet. If they say protein, (which is usually why people think they "need" meat), after doing a little research, you can show them the plant based foods, such as legumes, nuts, seeds and whole grains, that provide protein and other nutrients without all the fat and cholesterol that meat does.

 

[Runt]

And a veggie diet generally means that instead of eating 3 large meals a day (actually unhealthy), you most likely will be eating several smaller "meals" throughout the day, which keeps your metabolism going, and you going as well.

 

[Green Gaia]

That's so true Runt! I've got a few pounds to lose, and starting to eat several small meals throughout the day instead of 3 large ones, is one of the changes I made to my eating plan. It does work, I don't feel hungry inbetween meals and I don't feel guilty about "snacking" as long as I'm eating healthy foods.

 

[Tualha]

I would ask your sisters what they think you need from meat that you can't get from a plant based diet. If they say protein, (which is usually why people think they "need" meat), after doing a little research, you can show them the plant based foods, such as legumes, nuts, seeds and whole grains, that provide protein and other nutrients without all the fat and cholesterol that meat does.

I've told them that. I've also showed them a lot of research that shows it, and they still don't believe it. They just say things about it being easier to get it, or being easier for the family.

 

[Green Gaia]

I've told them that. I've also showed them a lot of research that shows it, and they still don't believe it. They just say things about it being easier to get it, or being easier for the family.

Well, then I would ask them that even if they don't believe the research, or want to believe it that they respect your choices. Maybe they will listen...

 

[Runt]

Or flip the tables on them; make them defend the validity of THEIR stance for once! Tell them to do research to prove that meat-eating is healthier than vegetarianism, or to prove that vegetarianism is unhealthy. Other than perhaps the Adkin's diet (although "healthy" is reletive in this case... supposedly it doesn't help you lose weight unless you are already overweight... if you're skinny it is supposed to have the exact opposite effect, because a big part of it is the consumption of fat instead of carbohydrates)... So... yeah... make them prove it!

 

[painted wolf]

well, as I stated before *wink wink*
I like meat, I like animals and consider them family.
I dislike the modern factory farming methods, and avoid factory farmed foods whenever possible. It is possible to find animals that have been treated humanly and with respect.

As for eggs, they are infertile and would simply rot away if not eaten, so I have no problem with eating eggs from free-range and well treated chickens. (like mine) And likewise I have no problem with eventually eating my chicken when that time comes.

Cheese and butter are yummy and the modern milking cow or goat suffers more if it isn't milked regularly (with care so as not to harm the animal obviously), Mastitis is a painful condion and comes from not being milked enough. The teats develop hard lumps wich clog and inflame, and thereafter are no longer capable of producing milk.
I certenly disagree with pumping animals full of hormones and chemicals to make them produce more, and avoid any milk with RBGH and the like.

The trick with avoiding suffering of the animals is to know where your food comes from, small farms are in general more humaine. Most people don't understand or care to understand where thier food comes from. (and thier too cheap to want to pay for the quality)
If you look hard enough and are willing to pay a little more you can find safe, healthy products from relyable and cairing people. Most farmers don't want to hurt their animals, as unhappy animals are both unproductive and frankly of poor quality. Factory farms don't care about the happyness of thier animals or their productivity as they have millions of animals, and when one becomes unproductive they simply kill it and feed it either to us or to the other animals. (a truely disgusting practice.)

in short crulety is not a nessisary part of the process.

and I don't want to be rude but Maize some people are alergic to Nuts, seeds and legumes or cant eat them for other health reasons. I have a friend who has a problem with her intestinal system, she has pockets/holes that trap food and cause intence pain and if she isn't careful may cause death. The main thing she has to avoid are nuts, seeds, large amounts of plant fiber and things like whole wheat, corn and so on.

wa:do

 

[Green Gaia]

and I don't want to be rude but Maize some people are alergic to Nuts, seeds and legumes or cant eat them for other health reasons. I have a friend who has a problem with her intestinal system, she has pockets/holes that trap food and cause intence pain and if she isn't careful may cause death. The main thing she has to avoid are nuts, seeds, large amounts of plant fiber and things like whole wheat, corn and so on.

wa:do

Of course some people are allergic to nuts, I understand that. I've never heard of anyone being allergic to legumes though, but I guess it could happen. My point was that people who want to avoid meat, can easily get the protein they need from plant sources, providing of course they don't have the condition you mentioned. I'm curious though, what is her reaction to tofu and other soy products? They are a good source of protein, but not fiber rich. Is there any fiber she can eat?

 

[keevelish]

While I rarely eat meat (merely because I don't like the texture of it) I am not against consuming animals. I agree that there are trades that cause suffering with food animals but one must consider the suffering of an animal as it is killed by a pride of lions-its throat is initially bitten so that it will suffocate, but the others are so eager for their meal that they dig right in as the prey is suffocating. I am sure that which ever creation story anyone believes that the primitive humans or "pre humans" never worried themselves over whether they were in the right to consume meat. They saw it as a source of energy and sustinance and used it. Or think of a cat that plays with its meal, batting the poor hapless chipmunk around before it finally gets around to killing it. Should we ban the lesser predators from eating meat too?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

This thread is a little old, but what the hey--

Um, did you know, truthseekingsoul, that as painted wolf said, if cows are not milked they experience a lot of pain and suffering? What should we do with all those nutrients that we mercifully milk from the cow to ease its suffering?

 

[Green Gaia]

This thread is a little old, but what the hey--

Um, did you know, truthseekingsoul, that as painted wolf said, if cows are not milked they experience a lot of pain and suffering? What should we do with all those nutrients that we mercifully milk from the cow to ease its suffering?

Oh, I don't know.... maybe leave it for the calfs for whom the mother cow is making the milk? Cows don't produce milk unless they give birth. So if they are producing milk, there is a baby cow somewhere for whom that milk is being made, not for you or me.

 

[civilcynic]

I am not a vegetarian and probably never will be because I lack the knowledge and discipline it takes to maintain a healthy vegetarian diet (OK...also my husband would hate it). I have no problem with people eating meat but I do have a problem with the animal industry.

Ideally, I would like to see nothing but free-range animals who are not being pumped with all sorts of growth hormones and other chemicals. Furthermore, with all modern technology, I find it hard to believe there are not humane methods for slaughter that can be used.

I realize the argument would be that it is simply not cost effective. My thought is that if you want to eat meat and its by-products, you should be willing to pay the price.
People will not stop eating meat completely just because it becomes expensive and the health benefits of reducing their animal protein as well as having healthier meat choices far outweigh the negatives (my opinion).

I know my thoughts are probably 'pie in the sky' and will never happen but I wish.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Oh, I don't know.... maybe leave it for the calfs for whom the mother cow is making the milk? Cows don't produce milk unless they give birth. So if they are producing milk, there is a baby cow somewhere for whom that milk is being made, not for you or me.

Yes, but then how we get our veal?