Animism

[Druidus]

I have a question pertaining to Animism. According to Animism, inanimates have souls. What happens when a rock splits in two? Does its soul split as well? How do you account for the many times rocks have split, and each grain of sand on a beach?

 

[kreeden]

A term such as soul is hard to define Druidus . What is Spirit , Soul , or Mana ? I could be wrong here , but I believe that Mana is the term most commonly used in such cases . Different cultures have different names for it though , and perhaps a slightly different view of what it is .

As I understand the reasoning , Mana is the " life force " that holds everything together . One could compare it to the force that hold atoms together ... or perhaps not ? { my understanding is limited } I'm not sure how that would work if a stone was ground up into sand ? The sand would still have Mana , but would it have the same as the stone ? I believe that " energy vibrations " come into play here ?

As I said , my understanding is limited . Perhaps a New Ager could explain it better ?

 

[michel]

The only real source I could find on it is:-http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/a/animism.htm

Which implies 'spirits' (plural) live in the trees, rocks etc - you will see that woodcutters used to ask for forgiveness, before felling a tree.
I find that quite natural - I believe that any living thing on earth has a spirit; maybe that were your question about rocks comes unstuck - a rock is not a living organism, is it?

 

[The Black Whirlwind]

i know this sikh, whose religious leader, i think his name was Yogi Bhajan, had a follower that committed suicide. Yogi Bhajan could still feel the guys soul, went looking, and found him in a stone.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

My one experience with rocks splitting in two comes from a sweat lodge I attended. Afterward, when we carried the stones to a safe place, the rocks that had broken were the "Grandfathers that had chosen to leave". These were the spirits of the stones who had left, and they'd utilized the sweat lodge to do so. Although the soul of the stone no longer resides in it, in my experience, it does still the wisdom of the soul that was there.

 

[painted wolf]

what happins when a cell divides? An egg is fertilized?

Mountians become rocks, rocks become pebbles and pebbles become sand which becomes the mountian again. Each piece is part of the rocks 'life cycle' its circle of existance. Some pieces are more 'active' than others... as Feathers mentioned with the split sweat lodge stones.

The soul is not 'lessened' by dividing just as our soul is not by giving birth to new life. At least that is how I understand it.

wa:do

 

[Katzpur]

I believe that any living thing on earth has a spirit.

Hey, Michael... Me too! Sometimes people act as if that makes me nuts or something, but I've always believed it.

 

[Master Vigil]

While I don't believe rocks have "life" and thus have no spirit of their own. They do reflect, and are affected by the spirit of those around them. And it is the energy that causes it to be split, that makes it alive.

 

[painted wolf]

the ones I've known were very much 'alive'
now.. how would one class a fossil? A rock, but once living thing.

wa:do

 

[jimbob]

I have a question pertaining to Animism. According to Animism, inanimates have souls. What happens when a rock splits in two? Does its soul split as well? How do you account for the many times rocks have split, and each grain of sand on a beach?

Maybe the ig rock has a big soul, and each smaller rock has a smaller soul?

 

[painted wolf]

ah but the smaller rock is often older and more experienced
(at the very least they've had more active lives)

wa:do

 

[justa_gurl]

Yeah but the smaller the rock, the more likely it is to get stepped on or thrown, so the more bitter the soul, right?

Anyway.. traditionally we think of the soul (nepesh – Hebrew; psyche – Greek; anima - Latin) as the most basic principle to sentience, life and movement; the difference between what is man and what is mere flesh. I’ve heard it said that early animistic beliefs used the term in a similar sense but on a much broader scale. The idea of ‘soul’ was used as a means to keeping everyone’s focus on its ‘being’ or nature rather than on its kind. So for a rock to have soul, you would say it is more than the sum of its substance, a functioning part of existence rather than just another rock. Does that make any sense?

 

[Druidus]

between what is man and what is mere flesh.

What do you mean by this? Are you distinguishing human from non-human? Because I will definately not agree with you there.

PW, I'm still a little confused. How far down can something go and still have a soul? Does a single carbon atom have a soul?

I have to say that I don't really believe that inanimates have souls. For me, anything alive does, and anything not alive can be effected by souls, but not acquire their own.

 

[michel]

What do you mean by this? Are you distinguishing human from non-human? Because I will definately not agree with you there.

PW, I'm still a little confused. How far down can something go and still have a soul? Does a single carbon atom have a soul?

I have to say that I don't really believe that inanimates have souls. For me, anything alive does, and anything not alive can be effected by souls, but not acquire their own.

I agree druidus; stragely enough, the word you used (inanimates) is defined as 1 : not animate: a : not endowed with life or spirit b : lacking consciousness or power of motion

That actually makes much more sense, as you say, without that diferentiation, how far 'down' would we have to go.

 

[justa_gurl]

What do you mean by this? Are you distinguishing human from non-human? Because I will definately not agree with you there.

Nope silly.. i was distinguishing a persons conscience and character from his blood and bones. The 'soul' is traditionally thought of as the 'being' that is within the meat and hair, not just the guts and gore itself. To the animist, the same applies to animals, plants, and even rocks; all more than their mere substance as quantified by the term 'soul'.

As i understand it, it's not necessarily that innatimates have consciousness or perception as they have distinction and purpose.

 

[Master Vigil]

what is man and what is mere flesh.

What do you mean by this?

Her comment reminded me of Yoda in the Empire Strikes Back when he tells Luke about the force. And he says, "Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter." Is that what you meant just_girl??

 

[Feathers in Hair]

'Luminous Being'... I love that.

 

[justa_gurl]

Her comment reminded me of Yoda in the Empire Strikes Back when he tells Luke about the force. And he says, "Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter." Is that what you meant just_girl??

In a 3ft, telepathic, swamp-muppet sort of way... sure.
Hard to tell the true meaning is.

 

[painted wolf]

first off you need to define 'soul'.

Why shouldn't a carbon atom have one? We are made of carbon atoms arn't we? We have 'souls'.
A single atom moves, decays, changes states, can form bigger molicules and so on. It is the interaction of forces between the sub-atomic particles.
Everything is made up of the same matter, the same forces hold everything in creation together.
Does a rock need to run around? Does it need to feed? No, but we are still formed from the same substance, we just put it together differently.

The biggest trick is to define what a 'soul' is... and why one thing gets one but not another.

wa:do

 

[kreeden]

first off you need to define 'soul'.

I think that is the biggest problem with debates , we usually don't bother to define what we are talking about before hand . Words like " traditional " and using definations from cultures other then those being refered to can cause confusion . For excample , is what the Polynesians called Mana the same thing that Christians call a Soul ? Or is it something totally different and we just use a word that we are more familuar with to describe it ?

An interesting point you made about cells splitting and eggs PW .