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Annihilationism, do the Wicked Perish?

Deeje

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
reddogs said:
They will be separated from God forever and ever, it is the end of sin and sinners as they will be destroyed and perish.

Now, Christ will take the saints to heaven when He comes at the Second Coming as He promised.
Click to expand...

Yes, it seems that SDA's and JW's have some similar beliefs....each coming from that era when change was in the wind. It was foretold for the "time of the end" after all. A cleansing, whitening and refining of God's worship was to take place, but the "wicked" would not be granted any insight or understanding. They would continue on in the way they always had...unclean, stained and unrefined. (Daniel 12:4; 9-10)

When Christ comes as judge of this world, it will obviously be a spectacular event. But JW's see his "presence" (parousia) as something involving a certain period of time in which Christ told his disciples to expect a series of world events indicating his "presence" as ruler in God's Kingdom. He said it was a "sign" of the "end of the age"....a time period before his "coming" to put the world to rights. All of those signs have been in evidence since 1914 when we believe the "last days" began. The end has not yet come, but is looming ever closer. (Matthew 24:3-14; 33-39)

When you mention "saints"...do SDA's have a belief that all of Christ's disciples are "saints" or are there those who, whilst still being Christ's disciples, will not be taken to heaven when he returns?
 
reddogs

reddogs

Active Member
Now here is a good study by a friend of our family, Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi:

"The Greek philosopher Socrates (470-399 B. C.) traveled to Egypt to consult the Egyptians on their teachings on the immortality of the soul. Upon his return to Greece, he imparted this teaching to his most famous pupil, Plato (428-348 B. C.).
In his book, The Phaedo, Plato recounts Socrates' final conversation with his friends on the last day of his life. He was condemned to die by drinking hemlock for corrupting the youths of Athens by teaching them "atheism," that is, the rejection of the gods. The setting was an Athenian prison and the time the summer of 399 B. C. Socrates spent his last day discussing the origin, nature, and destiny of the human soul with his closest friends.
In the dialogue Socrates repeatedly declares death to be "the separation of the soul from the body" in which it is encased. His language is strikingly similar to that of many Christian churches today....

In Phaedo, Plato explains that there is a judgement after death for all souls, according to the deeds done in the body. The righteous souls go to heaven and the wicked to hell.5

This teaching found its way first into Hellenistic Judaism especially through the influence of Philo Judaeus (ca. 20 B.C. A. D. 47) and later into Christianity especially through the influence of Tertullian (ca. 155-230), Origen (ca. 185-254), Augustine (354-430), and Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274). These writers attempted to blend the Platonic view of the immortality of the soul with the biblical teachings on the resurrection of the body....

The Greek philosophers Socrates and Philo adopted the Egyptian belief in life after death, but redefined it in terms of an immaterial, immortal soul that leaves the prison house of the mortal body at death. They viewed death as the separation of the soul from the body.

This dualistic teaching found its way into the Christian church toward the end of the second century. It was promoted first by Tertullian, and later on by Origen, Augustine, and Thomas Aquinas. For them death meant the destruction of the body, which enables the immortal soul to continue to live in either the beatitude of Paradise or in the eternal torment of Hell.

The belief in the survival of the soul contributed to the development of the doctrine of Purgatory, a place where the souls of the dead are purified by suffering the temporal punishment of their sins before ascending to Paradise.

The Reformers rejected as unbiblical and unreasonable the practice of buying and selling indulgences to reduce the stay of the souls of departed relatives in Purgatory. However, they continued to believe in the conscious existence of souls either in Paradise or Hell..." THE IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL, POPULAR BELIEFS: ARE THEY BIBLICAL? by Samuele Bacchiocchi excerpts by permission from part I and IV.
 
reddogs

reddogs

Active Member
Deeje said:
Yes, it seems that SDA's and JW's have some similar beliefs....each coming from that era when change was in the wind. It was foretold for the "time of the end" after all. A cleansing, whitening and refining of God's worship was to take place, but the "wicked" would not be granted any insight or understanding. They would continue on in the way they always had...unclean, stained and unrefined. (Daniel 12:4; 9-10)

When Christ comes as judge of this world, it will obviously be a spectacular event. But JW's see his "presence" (parousia) as something involving a certain period of time in which Christ told his disciples to expect a series of world events indicating his "presence" as ruler in God's Kingdom. He said it was a "sign" of the "end of the age"....a time period before his "coming" to put the world to rights. All of those signs have been in evidence since 1914 when we believe the "last days" began. The end has not yet come, but is looming ever closer. (Matthew 24:3-14; 33-39)

When you mention "saints"...do SDA's have a belief that all of Christ's disciples are "saints" or are there those who, whilst still being Christ's disciples, will not be taken to heaven when he returns?
Click to expand...

Lets read what does the Bible say:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15, 16.

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38.

"Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." Acts 20:21.

We have the steps to be with Jesus in heaven laid out.
 
Deeje

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
reddogs said:
Lets read what does the Bible say:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15, 16.

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38.

"Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." Acts 20:21.

We have the steps to be with Jesus in heaven laid out.
Click to expand...

Not a fan that of the KJV, but anyway...

Yes, there are steps laid out in the scriptures for those with the heavenly calling, (Hebrews 3:1) but that is not what I asked you....

Do SAD’s believe that all Christians go to heaven?

We see that the scriptures point to a chosen “few” who are anointed for life in heaven in a rulership capacity. Jesus said that they would be ‘kings and priests’ (Revelation 20:6) and that the Revelation also points out that these heavenly rulers would have earthly subjects. (Revelation 21:1-4) So to us, the scriptures identify two separate groups who are both saved by Jesus’ sacrifice. The first group go to heaven to rule with Jesus but the second stay on earth.

When John saw those who were with Jesus in heaven (a finite number, 144,000 chosen from the earth. Revelation 14:1-5) he also saw another group, which no man could number also attributing salvation to God and to the Lamb. The angel identified this group as those who ”come out of the great tribulation”, which occurs on earth. (Revelation 7:9-10; 13-14) These, we believe, are survivors. They are all in need of those kings and priests to take them back to what God purposed in the beginning. Jesus also spoke of a general resurrection that of the dead (John 5:28-29) whom he calls out of their graves. These we believe, will later join the tribulation survivors as permanent residents of the earth.

What do SDA’s believe?
 
reddogs

reddogs

Active Member
Deeje said:
Not a fan that of the KJV, but anyway...

Yes, there are steps laid out in the scriptures for those with the heavenly calling, (Hebrews 3:1) but that is not what I asked you....

Do SAD’s believe that all Christians go to heaven?

We see that the scriptures point to a chosen “few” who are anointed for life in heaven in a rulership capacity. Jesus said that they would be ‘kings and priests’ (Revelation 20:6) and that the Revelation also points out that these heavenly rulers would have earthly subjects. (Revelation 21:1-4) So to us, the scriptures identify two separate groups who are both saved by Jesus’ sacrifice. The first group go to heaven to rule with Jesus but the second stay on earth.

When John saw those who were with Jesus in heaven (a finite number, 144,000 chosen from the earth. Revelation 14:1-5) he also saw another group, which no man could number also attributing salvation to God and to the Lamb. The angel identified this group as those who ”come out of the great tribulation”, which occurs on earth. (Revelation 7:9-10; 13-14) These, we believe, are survivors. They are all in need of those kings and priests to take them back to what God purposed in the beginning. Jesus also spoke of a general resurrection that of the dead (John 5:28-29) whom he calls out of their graves. These we believe, will later join the tribulation survivors as permanent residents of the earth.

What do SDA’s believe?
Click to expand...

I will have to make another thread, as the Bible is clear, Christ is coming to take all of the saved at one time at the Second Coming. No Secret Rapture, no few here and there and then others or allowing some out a 'purgatory', no universal acceptance of the wicked or allowing sin to continue. The 144,000 are those who are alive at the end, and the others are those who are resurrected and taken to heaven and the wicked will perish and sin come to a end.

Here is the thread...The Signs & Events of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.
 
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