another botched execution.

[Shadow Wolf]

It is not like you can say 'oops, oh well' and move on after jailing someone for 30 years. So, no.

Being in for 30 years and being released is much better than never being allowed out because you were killed for something you didn't do.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nobody survives life imprisonment without parole.

Tell that to Henry James.
Freed by DNA, Angola Prisoner Henry James on His 30 Years Behind Bars for Crime He Didn’t Commit | Democracy Now!

 

[dust1n]

Tell that to Henry James.
Freed by DNA, Angola Prisoner Henry James on His 30 Years Behind Bars for Crime He Didn’t Commit | Democracy Now!

Or, to add:


Kirk Bloodsworth served eight years in Maryland prison – including two years on death row – for a murder and rape he didn’t commit, before he was exonerated in 1993.

Rolando Cruz, and his co-defendant Alejandro Hernandez, served more than 10 years on Illinois death row for a murder they didn’t commit before DNA testing proved both men innocent in 1995.

Verneal Jimerson and Dennis Williams were sentenced to death in the infamous Ford Heights Four case in Illinois for a pair of 1978 murders they didn’t commit. Jimerson was cleared in 1995 after a decade on death row and Williams served more than 17 years on death row before he was freed in 1996.

Robert Miller spent nine years on Oklahoma’s death row for a murder and rape he didn’t commit before he was cleared by DNA testing in 1998.

Ron Williamson spent a decade on Oklahoma’s death row for a murder he didn’t commit before DNA testing secured by the Innocence Project proved him innocent in 1999. His co-defendant, Dennis Fritz, was sentenced to life and spent 11 years in prison before DNA cleared him as well.

Ronald Jones, an Innocence Project client, served a decade on Illinois death row for a murder and rape he didn’t commit before DNA testing proved his innocence and led to his release in 1999.

Earl Washington, a Virginia man with limited mental capacity, was sentenced to death after he allegedly confessed to committing a 1982 murder he didn’t commit. He served a decade on death row, once coming within nine days of execution before receiving a stay. He would serve a total of 17 years behind bars before DNA testing obtained by the Innocence Project cleared him in 2000.

Frank Lee Smith died of cancer on Florida’s death row after serving 14 years for a murder and rape he didn’t commit. He was cleared by DNA testing obtained by the Innocence Project 11 months after his death.

Charles Irvin Fain served more than 17 years on death row in Idaho for a murder and rape he didn’t commit before DNA testing proved his innocence in 2001.

Ray Krone served a decade in Arizona prison – including four years on death row – for a murder and rape he didn’t commit before DNA testing proved his innocence in 2002.

Nicholas Yarris served more than 21 years on Pennsylvania’s death row before DNA testing proved his innocence and led to his release in 2003.

Ryan Matthews served five years on Louisiana’s death row for a murder he didn’t commit before he was exonerated by DNA testing in 2004. His co-defendant, Travis Hayes, was sentenced to life in prison and served eight years before he was cleared in 2007.

Curtis McCarty served 21 years in Oklahoma prison – including nearly 18 years on death row – for a murder he didn’t commit before DNA tests secured by the Innocence Project led to his exoneration in 2007. He was convicted twice and sentenced to death three times based on forensic misconduct.

Kennedy Brewer, an Innocence Project client, served 15 years behind bars – including seven years on death row – for a murder and sexual assault he didn’t commit before DNA testing from 2001 finally led to his exoneration in 2008.

Michael Blair served 13 years on death row for a murder he didn’t commit before DNA testing obtained by his lawyers at the Innocence Project proved his innocence and led to his exoneration in 2008.

Damon Thibodeaux spent 15 years on death row in Louisiana before he was exonerated in 2012. A prosecution expert who aided in the reinvestigation of his case concluded that the threat of the death penalty contributed to why he falsely confessed to the murder of his cousin.

Henry Lee McCollum and Leon Brown spent 30 years in prison in North Carolina, most of it on death row, before being exonerated in 2014.

The Innocence Project - The Innocent and the Death Penalty

 

[Poisonshady313]

There's a significant difference. Most prisoners survive prison. No one survives execution. I don't buy the argument that because someone might die, we should kill them. Might as well kill marathoners, eh?

Most of those executed are guilty and deserve execution. Most innocent people on death row are exonerated before they're executed. If the exceptions make the thing not worth it, then would you be willing to suggest that the exceptions make prison sentences not worth it?

It seems odd that it's acceptable to risk innocent people dying in prison but the line is drawn in a way that prevents guilty people from getting what's coming to them.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Or, to add:


Kirk Bloodsworth served eight years in Maryland prison – including two years on death row – for a murder and rape he didn’t commit, before he was exonerated in 1993.

Rolando Cruz, and his co-defendant Alejandro Hernandez, served more than 10 years on Illinois death row for a murder they didn’t commit before DNA testing proved both men innocent in 1995.

Verneal Jimerson and Dennis Williams were sentenced to death in the infamous Ford Heights Four case in Illinois for a pair of 1978 murders they didn’t commit. Jimerson was cleared in 1995 after a decade on death row and Williams served more than 17 years on death row before he was freed in 1996.

Robert Miller spent nine years on Oklahoma’s death row for a murder and rape he didn’t commit before he was cleared by DNA testing in 1998.

Ron Williamson spent a decade on Oklahoma’s death row for a murder he didn’t commit before DNA testing secured by the Innocence Project proved him innocent in 1999. His co-defendant, Dennis Fritz, was sentenced to life and spent 11 years in prison before DNA cleared him as well.

Ronald Jones, an Innocence Project client, served a decade on Illinois death row for a murder and rape he didn’t commit before DNA testing proved his innocence and led to his release in 1999.

Earl Washington, a Virginia man with limited mental capacity, was sentenced to death after he allegedly confessed to committing a 1982 murder he didn’t commit. He served a decade on death row, once coming within nine days of execution before receiving a stay. He would serve a total of 17 years behind bars before DNA testing obtained by the Innocence Project cleared him in 2000.

Frank Lee Smith died of cancer on Florida’s death row after serving 14 years for a murder and rape he didn’t commit. He was cleared by DNA testing obtained by the Innocence Project 11 months after his death.

Charles Irvin Fain served more than 17 years on death row in Idaho for a murder and rape he didn’t commit before DNA testing proved his innocence in 2001.

Ray Krone served a decade in Arizona prison – including four years on death row – for a murder and rape he didn’t commit before DNA testing proved his innocence in 2002.

Nicholas Yarris served more than 21 years on Pennsylvania’s death row before DNA testing proved his innocence and led to his release in 2003.

Ryan Matthews served five years on Louisiana’s death row for a murder he didn’t commit before he was exonerated by DNA testing in 2004. His co-defendant, Travis Hayes, was sentenced to life in prison and served eight years before he was cleared in 2007.

Curtis McCarty served 21 years in Oklahoma prison – including nearly 18 years on death row – for a murder he didn’t commit before DNA tests secured by the Innocence Project led to his exoneration in 2007. He was convicted twice and sentenced to death three times based on forensic misconduct.

Kennedy Brewer, an Innocence Project client, served 15 years behind bars – including seven years on death row – for a murder and sexual assault he didn’t commit before DNA testing from 2001 finally led to his exoneration in 2008.

Michael Blair served 13 years on death row for a murder he didn’t commit before DNA testing obtained by his lawyers at the Innocence Project proved his innocence and led to his exoneration in 2008.

Damon Thibodeaux spent 15 years on death row in Louisiana before he was exonerated in 2012. A prosecution expert who aided in the reinvestigation of his case concluded that the threat of the death penalty contributed to why he falsely confessed to the murder of his cousin.

Henry Lee McCollum and Leon Brown spent 30 years in prison in North Carolina, most of it on death row, before being exonerated in 2014.

The Innocence Project - The Innocent and the Death Penalty

Interesting that all those examples were on death row. Apparently, the appeals process works.


Meanwhile,

The Innocence Project - Know the Cases: Browse Profiles:Timothy Cole

Timothy Brian Cole died in a Texas prison in 1999 while serving a 25-year sentence for a rape he didn’t commit. Nearly a decade later, DNA evidence from the crime posthumously exonerated Cole and implicated another man as the perpetrator.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It seems odd that it's acceptable to risk innocent people dying in prison but the line is drawn in a way that prevents guilty people from getting what's coming to them.

It's because I doubt anyone really thinks criminals should not be separated from society. Even hard determinists often find themselves having to admit an institute based on non-determinists principles is better than letting criminals roam the streets.
That being said, a wrongful jail sentence can typically be undone, especially because it is not a certain the person will die. Being innocent and sentenced to death means there is no way to reverse this once it is done.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Interesting that all those examples were on death row. Apparently, the appeals process works.

Apparently, the system is highly flawed if that many innocent people were sentenced to death. If that many people were found to be innocent, why should we not even further question the appropriateness of the death penalty?

 

[Poisonshady313]

Apparently, the system is highly flawed if that many innocent people were sentenced to death. If that many people were found to be innocent, why should we not even further question the appropriateness of the death penalty?

It's not about the appropriateness of the penalty. It's the process that led to conviction in the first place that needs to be focused on.

 

[Poisonshady313]

It's because I doubt anyone really thinks criminals should not be separated from society. Even hard determinists often find themselves having to admit an institute based on non-determinists principles is better than letting criminals roam the streets.
That being said, a wrongful jail sentence can typically be undone, especially because it is not a certain the person will die. Being innocent and sentenced to death means there is no way to reverse this once it is done.

"a wrongful jail sentence can typically be undone"... except those moments when it's too late.

Not much different than the fact that wrongful death sentences can typically be undone (because they spend so long on death row going through the appeals process)... except those rare moments when it's too late.

So what's really the difference?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So what's really the difference?

The most obvious is time.

 

[Poisonshady313]

The most obvious is time.

Meanwhile,

The Innocence Project - Know the Cases: Browse Profiles:Timothy Cole

Timothy Brian Cole died in a Texas prison in 1999 while serving a 25-year sentence for a rape he didn’t commit. Nearly a decade later, DNA evidence from the crime posthumously exonerated Cole and implicated another man as the perpetrator.

Died 13 years into a 25 year sentence. Was exonerated 23 years into his 25 year sentence.

Meanwhile, Robert Laverne Henry was executed 26 years after his sentence. And there was no doubt as to whether or not he was guilty.... just years spent nitpicking legal procedure in pointless and wasteful appeals.

And with the long list of death row exoneration we were treated to a few posts back, seems the death sentence is more reversible than you'd like to admit.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And with the long list of death row exoneration we were treated to a few posts back, seems the death sentence is more reversible than you'd like to admit.

Death is not reversible. However, it seems there are far more innocents who are at risk of being wrongfully put to death that you want to admit because you are so caught up on someone dying in prison. It happens, but not as often as you seem to be implying it does. You have provided a name of those killed in prison, while you were provided with a list of people who were wrongfully placed on death row and fortunate enough that their cases were heard and they were freed.

Meanwhile, Robert Laverne Henry was executed 26 years after his sentence. And there was no doubt as to whether or not he was guilty.... just years spent nitpicking legal procedure in pointless and wasteful appeals.

So, to you, it works, but how it works is just pointless and wasteful appeals?

 

[dust1n]

Interesting that all those examples were on death row. Apparently, the appeals process works.

Lucky for those guys that they only had to go through a few years of misery before the advent of DNA testing and prisoners' rights groups came along and saved them from the state.

Of course, there are examples of those who actually died before being exonerated, but I didn't want to reference them because they are sad.

 

[Koldo]

Tell that to Henry James.
Freed by DNA, Angola Prisoner Henry James on His 30 Years Behind Bars for Crime He Didn’t Commit | Democracy Now!

Freed after 30 years? Then he wasn't in jail for life.

 

[Koldo]

Being in for 30 years and being released is much better than never being allowed out because you were killed for something you didn't do.

I disagree.

 

[Koldo]

Death is not reversible. However, it seems there are far more innocents who are at risk of being wrongfully put to death that you want to admit because you are so caught up on someone dying in prison. It happens, but not as often as you seem to be implying it does. You have provided a name of those killed in prison, while you were provided with a list of people who were wrongfully placed on death row and fortunate enough that their cases were heard and they were freed.

Examples of people being freed after being put on the death row are irrelevant as to how many people are wrongfully executed.

 

[Revoltingest]

Most of those executed are guilty and deserve execution. Most innocent people on death row are exonerated before they're executed.

"Most" is a word lacking in adequate certainty for me to approve execution.

If the exceptions make the thing not worth it, then would you be willing to suggest that the exceptions make prison sentences not worth it?

No. Prison sentences are reversible when convictions are overturned.

It seems odd that it's acceptable to risk innocent people dying in prison but the line is drawn in a way that prevents guilty people from getting what's coming to them.

You presume that death is what's "coming to them", but I don't think that's necessary.

 

[Revoltingest]

Freed after 30 years? Then he wasn't in jail for life.

He would've been, had he not be exonerated. This illustrates the advantage of imprisonment over execution.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's not about the appropriateness of the penalty. It's the process that led to conviction in the first place that needs to be focused on.

No matter how much we focus upon it, the whole system, from cops deciding whom to pursue, witnesses (incompetent/corrupt) pointing the finger, prosecutors & defenders playing their games, judges swaying verdicts, & jurors trying to stay awake so their prejudices can determine the outcome....it will always be a far from perfect process.

 

[Koldo]

He would've been, had he not be exonerated. This illustrates the advantage of imprisonment over execution.

I consider that to be a rather negligible advantage considering how much time it takes to actually get through the execution.