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another **** page.

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
But, of course, commenting on a girl's tits, which SHE FLASHED FOR A CAMERA is far more demeaning. (eye roll)

No one here that I saw said "commenting" or "nice tits" was the problem.And the comments on the woman in pink are not O.K.But according to you she was asking for it because she wore a pair of pants that you can see straight through and observe her g-string going up her butt.
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
No one here that I saw said "commenting" or "nice tits" was the problem.And the comments on the woman in pink are not O.K.But according to you she was asking for it because she wore a pair of pants that you can see straight through and observe her g-string going up her butt.

Yes, Dallas. That is exactly what has been said. Where have you been? :)

The suggestion throughout this thread is that women on the FestivalSluts Facebook page have been subjected to possible ****-shaming, because of negative comments left underneath their pictures.

I do NOT support ****-shaming or victim shaming. I have said repeatedly, however, that I have a different perception of some of the photographs posted on the FestivalSluts Facebook page.

No one is ever "asking" for mistreatment. But, we cannot control the reactions or psyche of others and SOMETIMES, Dallas, yes, sometimes, people do draw attention to themselves through their actions. This is fact. Does this mean that people have license to harass or harm another person. Absolutely not. You're venturing into different territory when you geuinely harass, defame, shame, or physically harm another person. Expressing objectionable opinion doesn't necessarily fall under these categories.

Additionally, some commentary provided to people may be perceived by some as sexually objectfying, but to others, it may not be. "Nice tits" may not impact one woman in the same way that it would impact another. I think one should pause and take time to contemplate the larger scenario - context & intention - before slapping labels on people and situations.

It would be very hard to miss a large woman at Walmart who is wearing very tight pink spandex. Neon colors attract the eye. As an overweight woman, I couldn't fault anyone for taking notice. But, taking notice and commenting to your friend or your partner is different than calling her a fat cow to her face or taking a picture of her and submitting it to a website for the purpose of ridiculing her.

Additionally, I do respect a person's right to speak their mind, but question the motives of someone who would go out of their way to say something hurtful to another person without provocation. Does this mean that I support negative treatment of people? No. I absolutely don't. But, I have to respect freedom of speech as an American who values my own 5th amendment right.

I have merely pointed out that situational context when examining photos matters when you're trying to determine intentions. Some saw misogyny and ****-shaming, where I did not. But, I am basing my opinions on a lot of assumptions as are you and everyone else.

If this doesn't make sense to you, I don't know what I can do to further elaborate. We don't have to see eye to eye. But, I know damn well what I believe and stand for and believe that I express myself quite clearly.
 
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freethinker44

Well-Known Member
No one here that I saw said "commenting" or "nice tits" was the problem.And the comments on the woman in pink are not O.K.But according to you she was asking for it because she wore a pair of pants that you can see straight through and observe her g-string going up her butt.

No the use of the picture, the comments and photo tittles.

The comments attached to many of those pictures are no better, as again, they portray the idea that women are just sexual objects.

Watch some of the comments on this page. It's an indicator of the purpose behind it.

Exactly. The pictures don't bother me at all, it's the comments that are outrageous. It simply is not OK to talk like that about women, no matter how much skin they're showing.

I also noticed some comments referring to "knowing " what they must like. "I bet they like it up the bo bo"..

Then you have the comments that reveal the dissapointment/resentment I'm assuming in their own reality . "why can't girls be like this." ...

But yeah ..its the comments mostly..its vile .

OH and one of the comments on the picture of the one that looks like maybe the girl is receiving oral sex ..or some sort of "attention" down there...is 'bet your a frigit ****".Word starting with C ending in T. 6 people "liked" that comment.That's not O.K.

You were saying?
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
"nice tits is not the comments I took issue with.Its been explained over and over .Nice tits is not **** shaming or degrading.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Lets put it this way...none of the comments I reported were simple admiration.Its disingenuous to imply that's what the issue was here.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
But, I know damn well what I believe and stand for and believe that I express myself quite clearly.

So did I ..and "nice tits" was not the issue.

Just like if the picture of the lady in pink if it had said 'nice ***" would be completely different than what was said .
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Yes, Dallas. That is exactly what has been said. Where have you been?

Specific types of comments..not ANY comments.But if I have to explain it anymore I pretty much feel like I'm talking to a brick wall or something.There are several people here besides me who clearly see the difference so I feel pretty secure that I'm not delusional or that I'm not making any sense.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
I get your point. And support equality. I loathe the double standard as much as you do.

But, I see at times where women project a double standard, where it might not exist. I don't think that any of us can speak in the concrete when it comes to the photographs on the FestivalSluts FB page. We're making a lot of assumptions and forming our opinions around that which we're assuming.

My point has simply been that situational context should be considered before we slap labels on a situation.

I can't conclude that it's a ****-shaming web site, when the overall climate of the website seems to be quite approving of scantily clad girls. They're certainly being sexually objectified and this is more of the problem, in my opinion. Rhetorically, where did the damn photos come from? Did the women in the photos intend for their photos to be depicted on the internet and what was the context of the situation at the time that photo was snapped.

Well I described earlier that I can easily imagine someone snapping a photo of me on the beach, at a festival or at a party, or doing a burlesque show. I can easily imagine hamming it up for the camera, and someone posting the picture on Facebook. A good friend, for example, recently posted an archived video of me, drunk off my face, explaining my introduction to both feminism and lesbianism in interpretive dance. I'm not cool with that, but at least she didn't tag me. Hopefully my students won't find it.

So that's where the photos come from, most likely. I certainly didn't "intend" for a video of my ridiculous interpretive dance to be posted on Facebook.

As I say, we can all be photographed at any time of the day or night and that photo shared on the internet. I'm sure none of us "intend" to be ridiculed or verbally harassed.

I do believe we need to educate people, but I don't believe the people who need educating are young women who like going out to festivals topless. I think there's nothing wrong with that. I don't think we need to be teaching people cynicism, especially since the direction of progress is toward greater equality and respect for women and women's sexuality in most of the western world. I think we need to educate those who might conclude it's ok to disparage or harass others based on their appearance, or to talk about women like they're nothing but three holes for a dick to penetrate.

That said, a should all be mindful of the fact that the cameras are always rolling in this day and age, whether we're going to a pride parade or Walmart. On that, I think we agree.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Specific types of comments..not ANY comments.But if I have to explain it anymore I pretty much feel like I'm talking to a brick wall or something.There are several people here besides me who clearly see the difference so I feel pretty secure that I'm not delusional or that I'm not making any sense.

Yes, Dallas, I remember several comments a all specifically referenced. Mystic had "sluts get cut", you had "silly ****, that's not a dick", several of us had issues with comments like "I bet he smells fish", "she can smell her own sluttiness" and "that pole now has chlamydia" etc.


It is pretty obvious what the difference between a **** shaming comment and an appreciative comment is. I know Dawny knows the difference because she went and found a fat shaming comment among the largely inoffensive content at people of Walmart. Freethinker, I think he just likes to argue. ;)
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Yes, Dallas, I remember several comments a all specifically referenced. Mystic had "sluts get cut", you had "silly ****, that's not a dick", several of us had issues with comments like "I bet he smells fish", "she can smell her own sluttiness" and "that pole now has chlamydia" etc.


It is pretty obvious what the difference between a **** shaming comment and an appreciative comment is. I know Dawny knows the difference because she went and found a fat shaming comment among the largely inoffensive content at people of Walmart. Freethinker, I think he just likes to argue. ;)

Please give Freethinker the credit that he deserves. He found the fat-shaming comment - not me.

There's much that I think we all here agree on in terms of what's important in pursuit of equality for women and hands down, education is one of them.

No girl needs to be taught that she needs to be shamed for being herself.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Mystic had "sluts get cut", you had "silly ****, that's not a dick", several of us had issues with comments like "I bet he smells fish", "she can smell her own sluttiness" and "that pole now has chlamydia" etc.

"She looks like she is thinking about all the dicks that have been up her big hole ,but don't worry there is plenty more coming you ****"...
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Specific types of comments..not ANY comments.But if I have to explain it anymore I pretty much feel like I'm talking to a brick wall or something.There are several people here besides me who clearly see the difference so I feel pretty secure that I'm not delusional or that I'm not making any sense.

You've done a little bit of back and forth on what you deem appropriate comments. It's been hard to keep up with you.

But, it's okay. I understand you and regardless as to any conflicting views that we might have, most, if not all of us are on the same page as to wanting equality for woman and standing against ****-shaming and wrongful treatment of women. Education, tolerance and patience are helpful.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Please give Freethinker the credit that he deserves. He found the fat-shaming comment - not me.

There's much that I think we all here agree on in terms of what's important in pursuit of equality for women and hands down, education is one of them.

No girl needs to be taught that she needs to be shamed for being herself.

Really? I totally thought that was you. Sorry, Freethinker. It seems you know the difference between appreciative and rude comments after all.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
You've done a little bit of back and forth on what you deem appropriate comments.

No I have not...Saying "nice tits" was not an example I used.Saying "dirtier than Paris Hilton's p**** however was.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
It seems you know the difference between appreciative and rude comments after all.

Exactly ..the comments made about that woman at Wal-mart were cruel and degrading .If the comment was I love big pink butts...or "wish I could have me some of that" totally different and would not been used as an example .Personally I don't like any "objectification" especially if you are so called "not asking for it' ..but there is a difference in degrading /and shaming and attacking someones character ...and a what looks or sounds more like admiration .
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
with the lady at wal-mart?Same as with some of the comments on the **** page.When I read that I had a sinking feeling..I felt humiliated FOR her...and I "felt" that the person saying it was delighting in evil.And I found ZERO humor in it .Only mean spiritedness...And even some sort of hatred of her in the remarks.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Oh one more I remember..Two girls wearing bikini tops by the way (not flipping their tops up "flashing their tits")..One comment was 4 tits and a shared brain cell.That is not a compliment that's an attack on their intelligence based on nothing but a photo of them in bikini tops smiling into a camera.Another guy said "perfect tits" ..that's NOT an insult or an attack on them its a compliment .
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Oh one more I remember..Two girls wearing bikini tops by the way (not flipping their tops up "flashing their tits")..One comment was 4 tits and a shared brain cell.That is not a compliment that's an attack on their intelligence based on nothing but a photo of them in bikini tops smiling into a camera.Another guy said "perfect tits" ..that's NOT an insult or an attack on them its a compliment .

I think sometimes in debates there is a temptation to pretend the opposition's position is totally unreasonable. Sometimes that involves misrepresenting their argument. I think we all do it. I think we've been carelessly substituting the phrase "asking for it" for the concept that these girls should have known the pictures might end up circulating on the internet (as should we all). Likewise, the other side is carelessly substituting "nice tits" for the disparaging, violent, rude and / or shaming comments we're actually concerned about.

The fact is, it is reasonable to believe we should all be aware that pictures of us could end up on the internet and behave accordingly, and it is ALSO reasonable to be concerned about a web page that harvests photos without the consent of the subjects and takes a general tone of **** shaming, objectification and hate.

I think it's a question of where our focus is, rather than a disagreement in principle. They're focused on the behavior of the women in the photos, we're focused on the behavior of the people making offensive and disparaging comments. For myself, I actually don't think there's anything wrong with wearing a bikini or pasties in public, so the women's behavior is not an issue for me. For the girl who was giving a guy a BJ at a party, well, maybe she should have considered that it would probably make her internet famous. But still, it's not behavior that concerns me as much as **** shaming.
 

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
Freethinker, I think he just likes to argue. ;)

Tis true. A good argument is like playing a game of chess to me, and it's kind of a compliment to you because I don't argue with people I don't think are intellectually capable holding their own, at least I try not to. Some people can take it pretty hard and I'm not trying to hurt anyone.

I've even been known to argue against something I believe to be true just because I perceive the other persons argument for it to be weak. And that's probably where I am at here. **** shaming is harmful, but I don't think this page is the best example of it. For one, you can't judge a facebook page by the comments, if we did there would be no facebook pages. I mean, I've seen pictures of children and puppies with some pretty nasty comments on them; it's like people think they are anonymous on facebook, like you can't just click on their name and get their entire life history.

And it kind of bothers me that fat shaming is just brushed away as if it's, not necessarily OK, but it's not unacceptable either. And someone even said it's different because it isn't a woman's issue. Are you kidding me? Who gets the eating disorder from **** shaming, men? No, it's overwhelmingly harmful to women specifically, just like **** shaming. Men get **** shamed, but men don't care, it effects women far more than it does men. So it's at least as bad if not worse than **** shaming and it destroys the body.
 
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