Another Perp Who Needs To Rot In Jail....

[Drolefille]

For personal reasons, I found the part of kids still wanting their parents interesting. It's definitely something I've been needing to read as I've been working on reconciling my past with my own mother. At least now I know I'm not that weird for not wanting to exclude her from my life. Even my therapist (who use to work with the criminally insane) has acknowledged her as a ""unique" [for a lack of better and less offensive words] and very difficult person" who he "probably doesn't want to meet." But at least now I can stop wondering why I really want anything at all to do with her, as apparently that seems to be normal.

::hug::

They wanted their parents and what they couldn't articulate because of their ages was that they wanted their parents to both love them and demonstrate that love consistently. Basically they wanted their parents to be good parents. I can't say if that speaks to your experience or not, but I know I have a hard time letting go of people who I want desperately to be better rather than cutting them loose in my life as a general thing.

 

[Revoltingest]

As a matter of policy, this doesn't work for financial reasons among others. Depending on the case, people convicted of Murder 1 can be out of prison in 25 years or so. Murder 2, 10. Manslaughter, 1. This guy could be a complete "waste of space" if such a person can be said to exist - I don't really agree. Or he could be mentally ill and have lacked any external supports. It doesn't excuse his behavior, it merely explains it and intent matters as much as criminal record and state of mind in sentencing.
I've had parents tell me that they have thoughts just as horrible as this - they had the thought of screaming at the baby and shaking it to make it stop crying, or just smothering it. They didn't do it, thankfully, but the thoughts are not unusual. Psychology really can't explain yet why some people act on them and some don't.

I don't really disagree with your reasoning, & I don't believe I have the truth or any such foolishness.
But to illustrate my view, I'd say that shaking a baby in anger & frustration can be a momentary lapse, albeit
a deadly one. But to bite off the nose speaks far more about evil intent. This is why I judge him so harshly.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Even better, someone who knows the exact cases the death penalty needs to be applied in. And clearly someone who makes none of his own mistakes either.

Before you say "yes but they're not _______ mistakes" just be happy that the world isn't run on the opinion of someone who thinks that YOUR mistakes should be worth being killed for, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Regardless this whole thread is some weird revenge-porn garbage. Ooh lets think of even more horrible ways to hurt someone.

Oh, please. I've never assaulted and disfigured an infant and I'm a bit offended that you would compare me to this baby mutilator. You're being quite emotional about this.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I also come down to - kids do need their parents. Even when their parents screwed stuff up, they need them. With DCFS supervision and parenting classes and anger management but they need them if it's possible to have them. I've worked with kids who were hurt physically, mentally, and not one of them didn't want their parents. The ones who didn't have them, blamed themselves. Not all of those parents were capable of parenting, and some were in jail for the rest of their lives, and yet there were many who could do better.

Sorry, but no. I was abused, physically and otherwise, by my father and he ended up leaving my mom and I was about 6. I don't miss his ***. I'm mad at him for wrecking my mom and I's lives and I'd love to let him know that, but he'll never be my father. Honestly, there's no telling what I'd do if I saw him now. I might put him in the ER or worse. He wasn't the only family member who abused me, either. There's a lot of them, and I hate them all. I wish death on them. I don't want them in my life ever again and I never want to see them again.

So I'm a person who's been through abuse and I don't ******* forgive them and I never will! I don't want them in my life! Yeah, it sucks not having a dad or being estranged from almost all of your blood relatives, but when they're complete scum, you're not missing much. If I was that baby, I would hate my father with a passion so great it would be scary for biting my nose off, giving me a skull fracture and a brain hemorrhage. That hatred would be deserved.

Little kids can't really understand that because they expect certain things and don't know how to handle it when that trust is betrayed. They can't understand that some people will never change and that it's useless to expect anything more from them. As an adult, I see that clearly now. Some people are just garbage in human form. I couldn't even talk about what my father did to me until I was thousands of miles away from him! That's how scared I was of him. As a kid, I was depressed about it. As a teen, that's when I got angry and really hateful about it. I don't lose sleep over not having any of those ******** in my life. I'm fine with my hatred towards them. I've accepted it. It's dumb to try to force myself to forgive and have compassion for those who don't deserve it. That's part of the reason why I could never be a good Christian. In fact, I still have nightmares about them rather frequently. They're the monsters in my dreams.

 

[Drolefille]

I don't really disagree with your reasoning, & I don't believe I have the truth or any such foolishness.
But to illustrate my view, I'd say that shaking a baby in anger & frustration can be a momentary lapse, albeit
a deadly one. But to bite off the nose speaks far more about evil intent. This is why I judge him so harshly.

Whereas I'm inclined to think that this was so incredibly bizarre that it was less likely to involve rational thought.

Oh, please. I've never assaulted and disfigured an infant and I'm a bit offended that you would compare me to this baby mutilator. You're being quite emotional about this.

Complaining about me being emotional and then following up with your next post is ironic.
I made it clear that I wasn't making that comparison, I thought. If you genuinelly thought I was making it, I apologize. My point is rather closer to this one:

“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.”
And a quote I can't find the source for that points out that a Christian government sounds all fine and dandy (to Christians) but what if you're a lutheran and the government's run by Southern Baptists, or you're a Southern Baptist and the government's run by Catholics. With the point being that stating that this or that person should be killed is all well and good until you're NOT the person making that call. In some countries both you and I could be killed for who we are.

― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

Sorry, but no. I was abused, physically and otherwise, by my father and he ended up leaving my mom and I was about 6. I don't miss his ***. I'm mad at him for wrecking my mom and I's lives and I'd love to let him know that, but he'll never be my father. Honestly, there's no telling what I'd do if I saw him now. I might put him in the ER or worse. He wasn't the only family member who abused me, either. There's a lot of them, and I hate them all. I wish death on them. I don't want them in my life ever again and I never want to see them again.

So I'm a person who's been through abuse and I don't ******* forgive them and I never will! I don't want them in my life! Yeah, it sucks not having a dad or being estranged from almost all of your blood relatives, but when they're complete scum, you're not missing much. If I was that baby, I would hate my father with a passion so great it would be scary for biting my nose off, giving me a skull fracture and a brain hemorrhage. That hatred would be deserved.

Little kids can't really understand that because they expect certain things and don't know how to handle it when that trust is betrayed. They can't understand that some people will never change and that it's useless to expect anything more from them. As an adult, I see that clearly now. Some people are just garbage in human form. I couldn't even talk about what my father did to me until I was thousands of miles away from him! That's how scared I was of him. As a kid, I was depressed about it. As a teen, that's when I got angry and really hateful about it. I don't lose sleep over not having any of those ******** in my life. I'm fine with my hatred towards them. I've accepted it. It's dumb to try to force myself to forgive and have compassion for those who don't deserve it. That's part of the reason why I could never be a good Christian. In fact, I still have nightmares about them rather frequently. They're the monsters in my dreams.

I'd never tell you how to feel. And I think my later post might have clarified, they wanted their parents to be good and loving parents to them, as young children that's expressed as "I want them back." Abusers can be treated, the wounds of abuse can be healed, but not in all cases and sometimes the scars are too great to get over. And that's fine. I wouldn't think of telling anyone to forgive someone, though there are times I might encourage it. That said, I don't believe anyone is garbage.

But just as my experiences color my opinion, I think your experiences are coloring yours as well.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Complaining about me being emotional and then following up with your next post is ironic.

Of course everyone's being emotional here. It's an emotional topic.

I made it clear that I wasn't making that comparison, I thought. If you genuinelly thought I was making it, I apologize.

Yeah, that's how it came off. How was I supposed to take it?

My point is rather closer to this one:

Well, I disagree with that. I support the death penalty for various crimes that are extreme. Not saying this is one of them. I just don't care about what happens to this guy. I used to be against the death penalty on moral grounds, but not anymore. I know too much about how evil some people can be towards others. Now I'm very selective about who I extend my compassion towards.

That said, I don't believe anyone is garbage.

Ted Bundy wasn't garbage? :areyoucra

But just as my experiences color my opinion, I think your experiences are coloring yours as well.

Well, yeah. Serial killers, mass murderers, abusers, tyrants, abnormal psych, etc. are some of my favorite topics to study. I know how off the charts people can be in violating others.

 

[Drolefille]

Of course everyone's being emotional here. It's an emotional topic.

So why would you say "You're being quite emotional" as if it were some sort of criticism?

Yeah, that's how it came off. How was I supposed to take it?

As I said, I apologize, and you ignored my second non-quoted quote (I seriously can't find the right wording to source it.)
Regardless there are certain things that are bad to different degrees. Sexism is bad even in small amounts, because it leads to and supports a systemic problem. Dehumanization is bad, even in small amounts because "othering" people causes problems.

Well, I disagree with that. I support the death penalty for various crimes that are extreme. Not saying this is one of them. I just don't care about what happens to this guy. I used to be against the death penalty on moral grounds, but not anymore. I know too much about how evil some people can be towards others. Now I'm very selective about who I extend my compassion towards.

You don't care, but you think he should die? Isn't that caring a lot?

Ted Bundy wasn't garbage?

People aren't garbage. People can be horrible, but they're not garbage. I don't like calling people "trashy" in any sense for the same reason.

Well, yeah. Serial killers, mass murderers, abusers, tyrants, abnormal psych, etc. are some of my favorite topics to study. I know how off the charts people can be in violating others.

So do I. But what separates us from serial killers, etc. is empathy for others. Lacking empathy and "othering" people is exactly how people justify murdering them, blowing up buildings, etc.

Anyway, lets say this guy goes to jail, takes an anger management class, a parenting class, maybe some mental health treatment and is released in society, contrite, apologetic and reformed. Would you still think him worthy of death?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So why would you say "You're being quite emotional" as if it were some sort of criticism?

Because you were criticizing others in this thread as being emotional when you're being just as emotional.

As I said, I apologize, and you ignored my second non-quoted quote (I seriously can't find the right wording to source it.)

Ignored what?

Regardless there are certain things that are bad to different degrees. Sexism is bad even in small amounts, because it leads to and supports a systemic problem. Dehumanization is bad, even in small amounts because "othering" people causes problems.

I believe in people getting what they deserve. If you want me to treat you with respect and dignity, than you have to show that you deserve it by acting in a basically respectful way.

You don't care, but you think he should die? Isn't that caring a lot?

I didn't say that, I just said that I wouldn't care if he did die.

People aren't garbage. People can be horrible, but they're not garbage. I don't like calling people "trashy" in any sense for the same reason.

Obviously, I disagree. I don't understand your thinking. Some people really are worthless and seem to only exist to do wrong and violate others, like with Ted Bundy and other serial killers. You have to draw the line somewhere. This whole PC idea that everyone always has intrinsic worth no matter what they do and is redeemable to be illogical nonsense. That's the kind of misplaced sympathy that those people feed off of and use against you. It could get you into a lot of trouble one day if you come across a certain type of person. That's why I'm very discriminatory when it comes to those I care about.

So do I. But what separates us from serial killers, etc. is empathy for others. Lacking empathy and "othering" people is exactly how people justify murdering them, blowing up buildings, etc.

Oh, really? Empathy? Okay, let's put ourselves in the shoes of Ted Bundy, for example. He enjoyed taking possession of women, using them as objects. He liked the power of it. That's why he would collect body parts from his victims and commit necrophilia with their corpses. His childhood narrative is full of conflicting stories. However, disturbing behavior manifested in him from a very young age.

Anyway, what is the point of putting yourself in the shoes of someone like that? That's what empathy is. If you're a criminal profiler, making a movie, writing a book or making a song about serial killing and want to understand their psychology, I can understand that. But me understanding their psychology (which I do) doesn't lead me to feel bad for them.

I prefer to have empathy and sympathy for those who are victimized, oppressed and abused - not for those doing the victimization, oppressing and abusing. I save my empathy and sympathy for those who deserve it. No mercy for the merciless or, you should get what you deserve. If you violate the rights of others, you're scum in my eyes.

Anyway, lets say this guy goes to jail, takes an anger management class, a parenting class, maybe some mental health treatment and is released in society, contrite, apologetic and reformed. Would you still think him worthy of death?

No. I said I don't care what happens to him, either way. But if he's able to be helped then give him help.

 

[Drolefille]

In short, our worldviews are fundamentally opposed.

C'est la vie.