Another version of ontological argument.

[Redemptionsong]

1. this still doesn't explain how "truth is circular" makes any kind of sense

2. this is ridiculous as on "faith", one can believe literally anything one can imagine. There is NOTHING that can't be believed on "faith". Including false things.



Nothing at all. I also don't get the need to capitalize it.

Faith, l understand, is the only means of accessing absolute truth. Faith allows absolute truth to become a reality in a person's life.

Only God is absolute truth, so this is not faith in just 'anything'.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Truth (as the composite of all 'truths') is circular because only absolute truth describes absolute truth, and there is no way of defining this kind of truth in a way that encapsulates all that it means. It's a bit like 'Love is ..'

Love is an emotion.

Let's just cut to the chase here................

Circularity is a thing that is concerned with reasoning and making arguments.

The word "truth" or "Truth" is not reasoning, nor is it an argument of any kind.
So you are misapplying the label "circularity" here.

It makes no sense at all.
It's just word salad.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Faith, l understand, is the only means of accessing absolute truth. Faith allows absolute truth to become a reality in a person's life.

On faith, you can believe anything. Including false things.
So what you say makes zero sense.

Only God is absolute truth, so this is not faith in just 'anything'.

Your beliefs aren't "truth" simply because you believe them.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Love is an emotion.

Let's just cut to the chase here................

Circularity is a thing that is concerned with reasoning and making arguments.

The word "truth" or "Truth" is not reasoning, nor is it an argument of any kind.
So you are misapplying the label "circularity" here.

It makes no sense at all.
It's just word salad.

Love is more than an emotion.

Love also transcends reasoning. If it were possible to define love, then love itself would be a logical concept. But, it is not possible to define love except by using other 'circular' definitions. Love is perfect goodness. But what is perfect goodness?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Love is more than an emotion.

I don't see how.

Love also transcends reasoning

Not sure what you mean by "transcends", but no emotion is based on "reason" in any case.
Love is no exception.

If it were possible to define love, then love itself would be a logical concept. But, it is not possible to define love except by using other 'circular' definitions. Love is perfect goodness. But what is perfect goodness?

Sorry, but I'm growing tired of the vague abstract word salad.

 

[viole]

Males lack somethings in females, females lack somethings in males, both have strengths and weakness, and overall, the overlap and common unity of traits is more then differences.

God lacks nothing by definition. But if we are talking about creation then it's more like a female mother since everything came from it's light. From viewpoint of Authority because this tends to be labelled as masculine role, then male. From viewpoint of compassion, more like a female. From viewpoint of retribution, more like a male.

God doesn't have a gender, he doesn't have sex, come on.

I actually have used She for God before, but, the general convention is He.

This is due to languages being like that, in Farsi, there isn't even he or she.

Yes, but I make the assumption here that you do not dictate what valid imagination is, and what is not. Since that would undermine the whole argument.

So, if I really try hard, any imagination I can have of a greater being is nowhere close to the God of traditional beliefs. Like God, or Allah, or whatever.

Now, my imagination of a greater being is not even close to those beings. Why? They look to me, with all due respect, to suffer from the same problems as a spoiled teenager. Namely, a juvenile psychological problem, and a person with a problem with her Ego. For instance, their requirement of being worshipped by the beings they created seems quite indicative of a pathological low-esteem syndrome; which I would not expect in the greatest being.

So, the logical conclusion is inescapable. If your argument is true, and atheists have a reliable imagination about that necessary being, then you are wasting your time by worshipping her.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Link]

Yes, but I make the assumption here that you do not dictate what valid imagination is, and what is not. Since that would undermine the whole argument.

So, if I really try hard, any imagination I can have of a greater being is nowhere close to the God of traditional beliefs. Like God, or Allah, or whatever.

Now, my imagination of a greater being is not even close to those beings. Why? They look to me, with all due respect, to suffer from the same problems as a spoiled teenager. Namely, a juvenile psychological problem, and a person with a problem with her Ego. For instance, their requirement of being worshipped by the beings they created seems quite indicative of a pathological low-esteem syndrome; which I would not expect in the greatest being.

So, the logical conclusion is inescapable. If your argument is true, and atheists have a reliable imagination about that necessary being, then you are wasting your time by worshipping her.

Ciao

- viole

Discovering who God is is irrelevant to the proof.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Discovering who God is is irrelevant to the proof.

Well, then it is sort of not useful.
God created us and that is all we know about us.

Not that I believe in the proof.

 

[Link]

Well, then it is sort of not useful.
God created us and that is all we know about us.

Not that I believe in the proof.

It's useful because you know God exists by it.

 

[viole]

Discovering who God is is irrelevant to the proof.

Not really, since the proof relies on my imagination of a greater being, then the same can be used to exclude some gods.
For instance, my imagination tells me that a greater being does not care for worship. A god who requires worshipping from lesser beings is not great at all.

Therefore, if the argument holds, then you are wasting your time if you worship whomever you worship.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Link]

Not really, since the proof relies on my imagination of a greater being, then the same can be used to exclude some gods.
For instance, my imagination tells me that a greater being does not care for worship. A god who requires worshipping from lesser beings is not great at all.

Therefore, if the argument holds, then you are wasting your time if you worship whomever you worship.

Ciao

- viole

It's not about imagining but actually recognizing traits of God/Necessary Being.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It's not about imagining but actually recognizing traits of God/Necessary Being.

Yeah, and that is all in you brain. Philosophical rationalism has a limit.

 

[Link]

Yeah, and that is all in you brain. Philosophical rationalism has a limit.

We are in our brains too.

 

[viole]

It's not about imagining but actually recognizing traits of God/Necessary Being.

Yes, and necessary beings do not need any worship. You should realise that.

Ciao

- viole

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

We are in our brain too.

There is no one brain as our.

 

[Link]

Yes, and necessary beings do not need any worship. You should realise that.

Ciao

- viole

There is only one necessary being possible by definition and yes it does not need our worship while we do need it.

 

[Link]

There is no one brain as our.

Thanks I fixed it.

 

[viole]

There is only one necessary being possible by definition and yes it does not need our worship while we do need it.

Do you need to be worshipped?

ciO

- viole

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

We are in our brains too.

There is still no our brains as 2 brains become one. They are all individual in at least some sense.

 

[Link]

Do you need to be worshipped?

ciO

- viole

I need respect and love from God and good servants of God. I don't need to be worshiped because I am not truly the highest being to be valued. It would be claiming something falsely.

I also don't need to be exalted as that is a station for God's chosen.

I want to be deemed great in God's eyes and believers eyes though. Really badly that I am willing to sacrifice all pleasures of this world and temporary life to attain that rank in God's eyes, his exalted chosen ones eyes and of believers eyes.

God is higher then all exalted ones, he is exalted, but his divinity is that, but at a much ultimately higher level to the extent there is no comparing him with his chosen servants. Although they are pointers to God and are his names and images, at the end, finite is nothing compared to the absolute being.

God doesn't need to be worshiped, but we need to worship it, because it's the being who being in love intoxicates the soul in a good way, is sweet like honey in a good way, and wanting his exalted chosen servants is linked to wanting him because they constantly connect us to God and make us return to God.

Recognizing God is key to happiness, but not only that, it's the only way to protect ourselves from the dark world of confusion and illusions of Iblis. We have to take haven in the cave of oneness of God. Worship him sincerely.

Secrets when we embarking the ships that are his names, open up, when we do. Secrets of the universe and world of God's healing power vs dark sorcery of Iblis will become clear.

And if God didn't believe in you or me, he wouldn't have not put us in this trial. We all can pass his tests and trials.