Answer to suffering?

[Quiddity]

For most of life I would say I have suffered. I never failed to ask “why?” No answer I ever received seemed to fill that void for me. Most of my suffering was because of my step dad who was very abusive. Many times people would catch me crying because I had just gotten a good beating. They would just tell me “it’s going to be ok” or they would give me some answer to console me. It did nothing. I was too hurt and too angry. It wasn’t until I was 13 when my mom once told me “it’s going to be ok” (she had never said this previously and left my step dad a year later) that I started to find peace.

So is an answer really what I was looking for?

Or was I looking for something else?



~Victor

 

[michel]

For most of life I would say I have suffered. I never failed to ask “why?” No answer I ever received seemed to fill that void for me. Most of my suffering was because of my step dad who was very abusive. Many times people would catch me crying because I had just gotten a good beating. They would just tell me “it’s going to be ok” or they would give me some answer to console me. It did nothing. I was too hurt and too angry. It wasn’t until I was 13 when my mom once told me “it’s going to be ok” (she had never said this previously and left my step dad a year later) that I started to find peace.

So is an answer really what I was looking for?

Or was I looking for something else?



~Victor

Sorry Victor, there seems to be a question in there I don't understand..........

 

[Quiddity]

I apologize if I didn't make it clear. There is many people who seek an answer to suffering when in fact they may be looking for comfort or reassurance. What to you think?

That better?

 

[glasgowchick]

For most of life I would say I have suffered. I never failed to ask “why?” No answer I ever received seemed to fill that void for me. Most of my suffering was because of my step dad who was very abusive. Many times people would catch me crying because I had just gotten a good beating. They would just tell me “it’s going to be ok” or they would give me some answer to console me. It did nothing. I was too hurt and too angry. It wasn’t until I was 13 when my mom once told me “it’s going to be ok” (she had never said this previously and left my step dad a year later) that I started to find peace.

So is an answer really what I was looking for?

Or was I looking for something else?



~Victor

Hi Victor, I think you just needed your mummy at that time to tell you everything was going to be ok..

 

[Lintu]

I think no one can really explain why suffering exists...maybe there are a few apologetic hypotheses, but no one has of yet actually given a good, valid, acceptable explanation. (see also: the book of Job). When I am down, whether it's just a little blue or in the depths of desperation, I've found that empathy is one of the best medicines. To know that you are not alone in your suffering is important, as it helps you to see that the suffering is likely not targeted at you as a result of something you have done. While we may never figure out why there is sometimes such unfair suffering, at least we can see that it's a pain we all deal with at some point.

 

[michel]

Hi Victor, I think you just needed your mummy at that time to tell you everything was going to be ok..

hehehe I think I still need mine, for the same reason!

I am not sure we don't all need that. at some time; I remember being told by someone who knew a thing or two that we should talk to ourselves when feeling 'rough' - as if we were talking to our kids.

Try it sometime - when you are feeling low, and need comfort; image your mother (or father) and imagine what they would be saying to you to comfort you.....

It works!

 

[Quiddity]

but no one has of yet actually given a good, valid, acceptable explanation.

I'm not sure we will ever get and "acceptable" explanation. In the midst of darkness "accepting" is not easy.

~Victor

 

[dan]

Men and women respond differently to mental suffering, but both can benefit from different things. In summary, women, for the most part, jsut want someone to feel bad with them for a while. They're not looking to be fixed, whereas men tend to be more analytical and goal oriented in problem-solving. Guys want stuff to work right, so they try to fix stuff. Men and women both seek both of these forms of comfort, but one usually overrides the other. You seem confused as to exactly what you were seeking. It seems the emotional part of you wanted some empathy and care but the analytical part of you was left unfulfilled concerning the need for the pain you went through.

To find an answer to your question about the need for suffering we have to start way back at the garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were perfectly happy living in a world where everything went right. Here's a question - do you think they appreciated it?

A scripture answers this for me. "It must needs be that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad.Wherefore all things must be a compound in one." Suffering happens for three reasons that I can name off of the top of my head. First, and most evident from the scriptures (but not the reason for your suffering) is sin. Sin brings pain.

Second, suffering hellps us to appreciate the good things more, adding joy to our life. We can only experience joy to the contrasting degree to which we have experienced sorrow.

Third, suffering helps us to grow. You learned things from your experience. What you saw and felt will make you a better father and help you to understand others' suffering. It will help you to empathize with others going through similar circumstances.

Why does God let us go through all this, then? It's all part of the plan. He gave us free will so we could learn the difference between right and wrong ourselves. Some people choose wrong will their free will. They sometimes suffer and then realize that choosing right is better. Some of us see others choosing wrong and it helps us to utilize wisely our free agency in choosing right.

Another scripture should wrap up the Gospel application of suffering: "thou knowest the greatness of God; and He shall consecrate thine afflictions for thy gain."

Christ had to suffer all so He could understand us and take that suffering from us. If we let Him He fix us, but He is also there to feel bad with us.

 

[michel]

Men and women respond differently to mental suffering, but both can benefit from different things. In summary, women, for the most part, jsut want someone to feel bad with them for a while. They're not looking to be fixed, whereas men tend to be more analytical and goal oriented in problem-solving. Guys want stuff to work right, so they try to fix stuff. Men and women both seek both of these forms of comfort, but one usually overrides the other. You seem confused as to exactly what you were seeking. It seems the emotional part of you wanted some empathy and care but the analytical part of you was left unfulfilled concerning the need for the pain you went through.

To find an answer to your question about the need for suffering we have to start way back at the garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were perfectly happy living in a world where everything went right. Here's a question - do you think they appreciated it?

A scripture answers this for me. "It must needs be that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad.Wherefore all things must be a compound in one." Suffering happens for three reasons that I can name off of the top of my head. First, and most evident from the scriptures (but not the reason for your suffering) is sin. Sin brings pain.

Second, suffering hellps us to appreciate the good things more, adding joy to our life. We can only experience joy to the contrasting degree to which we have experienced sorrow.

Third, suffering helps us to grow. You learned things from your experience. What you saw and felt will make you a better father and help you to understand others' suffering. It will help you to empathize with others going through similar circumstances.

Why does God let us go through all this, then? It's all part of the plan. He gave us free will so we could learn the difference between right and wrong ourselves. Some people choose wrong will their free will. They sometimes suffer and then realize that choosing right is better. Some of us see others choosing wrong and it helps us to utilize wisely our free agency in choosing right.

Another scripture should wrap up the Gospel application of suffering: "thou knowest the greatness of God; and He shall consecrate thine afflictions for thy gain."

Christ had to suffer all so He could understand us and take that suffering from us. If we let Him He fix us, but He is also there to feel bad with us.

very good post; especially from the point of view of 'lessons learned' through suffering - I couldn't agree more.

It seems sad that we have to suffer to learn, but I guess that is the 'foundation stone' of no pain no gain.

 

[Engyo]

The entirety of Buddhism began as a search for the answer to the problem of human suffering. That was Siddhartha's goal when he left his family to find answers. His conclusions are that life is suffering; that suffering has a cause; that suffering has an end. That end can be reached by any human who is willing to do the necessary work to reach the level of understanding required.

 

[Quiddity]

It seems the emotional part of you wanted some empathy and care but the analytical part of you was left unfulfilled concerning the need for the pain you went through.

Perhaps with the dealings of my mom it was not analytical but mostly emotionally. But to take this a step further, use this analogy between us and God. What kind of analysis will leave you fulfilled?

To find an answer to your question about the need for suffering we have to start way back at the garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were perfectly happy living in a world where everything went right. Here's a question - do you think they appreciated it?

Not sure where you are headed with this but for the sake of the conversation I will say no.

A scripture answers this for me. "It must needs be that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore all things must be a compound in one." Suffering happens for three reasons that I can name off of the top of my head. First, and most evident from the scriptures (but not the reason for your suffering) is sin. Sin brings pain.

Agreed.

Second, suffering hellps us to appreciate the good things more, adding joy to our life. We can only experience joy to the contrasting degree to which we have experienced sorrow.

Is this like the we don’t know what is hot if there is no cold?

Third, suffering helps us to grow. You learned things from your experience. What you saw and felt will make you a better father and help you to understand others' suffering. It will help you to empathize with others going through similar circumstances.

Agreed.

Why does God let us go through all this, then? It's all part of the plan. He gave us free will so we could learn the difference between right and wrong ourselves. Some people choose wrong will their free will. They sometimes suffer and then realize that choosing right is better. Some of us see others choosing wrong and it helps us to utilize wisely our free agency in choosing right.

It’s not always necessarily to know right from wrong.

Another scripture should wrap up the Gospel application of suffering: "thou knowest the greatness of God; and He shall consecrate thine afflictions for thy gain."

Agreed.

Christ had to suffer all so He could understand us and take that suffering from us. If we let Him He fix us, but He is also there to feel bad with us.

He didn’t understand us before?

~Victor

 

[Quiddity]

That end can be reached by any human who is willing to do the necessary work to reach the level of understanding required.

This sounds deep. But I just don't understand. Can you clarify please.

~Victor

 

[dan]

Is this like the we don’t know what is hot if there is no cold?

Kinda, but there are qualities of hot and cold that make it a stretch. I can't think of a good analogy except for this: Imagine you go through your whole life having three square meals a day, without exception. You don't question it and you're not very grateful. You don't even think about it, but one day you only get one, and you only get one a day for weeks. You never considered this before, and suddenly you wish you had three all over again (I would probably start crying). You appreciate the three meals all of a sudden. You get three meals on occasion and it makes you really happy. Suddenly one is bad and three is good. Three never made you happy before, but now it does.

He didn’t understand us before?

He didn't understand the guilt of sin or the weight of imperfection. By taking our sins upon Him He learned what it felt like to be a guilty human. This helps Him to empathize with us.

 

[robtex]

r. Most of my suffering was because of my step dad who was very abusive. Many times people would catch me crying because I had just gotten a good beating. So is an answer really what I was looking for?
Or was I looking for something else?
~Victor

Victor people do things for two basic reasons:

1) it brings them pleasure to commit the action in question
2) The action in question is used to remove something that is displeasurable.

It really isn't very complexed at all. Your dad either enjoyed hitting you or used it as a deterrent for something that brought him displeasure. If the question is "was it justifed" I am going to say extremely unlikely. I can't think of any instance where a beating is justified by the pleasure it gives the giver or any instance where the displeasure is likely to be removed by a beating.

I am sorry for your childhood experiences. I find that kind of cruetly deeply saddening.

 

[Darkdale]

I've never understood suffering. I can't figure out if it is a decision or a reaction. Maybe it's a little bit of both. In my experience, suffering is something I indulged because I was obsessed with whatever was causing the suffering. Now, I don't pay as much attention. We life falls apart, I just keep moving forward, because... well, forward is the only direction we can go. Suffering is a waste of time. It's time I could be using to fix whatever needs fixing.

 

[Engyo]

This sounds deep. But I just don't understand. Can you clarify please.

~Victor

Basically that is a thumbnail statement of the practice of Buddhism. This is a lifelong endeavor, which helps lead people to the understanding of how our lives work; and how we create the greatest part of our own suffering, through our egos and attachments to various impermanent things/people.

This is a path upon which I have walked a ways, but have nowhere near come to the end of yet. It is a practice I will continue for the rest of this lifetime.

I would recommend reading the outline of Buddhism in the Buddhist Forum here for a slightly more in-depth explanation, for those interested.

 

[glasgowchick]

hehehe I think I still need mine, for the same reason!

I am not sure we don't all need that. at some time; I remember being told by someone who knew a thing or two that we should talk to ourselves when feeling 'rough' - as if we were talking to our kids.

Try it sometime - when you are feeling low, and need comfort; image your mother (or father) and imagine what they would be saying to you to comfort you.....

It works!

Yeh but boys are mummies boys On saying that I still need my mum if only she were around so I guess I shall give your tips ago next time Im down thanks Michel..

 

[Quiddity]

Victor people do things for two basic reasons:

1) it brings them pleasure to commit the action in question
2) The action in question is used to remove something that is displeasurable.

It really isn't very complexed at all. Your dad either enjoyed hitting you or used it as a deterrent for something that brought him displeasure. If the question is "was it justifed" I am going to say extremely unlikely. I can't think of any instance where a beating is justified by the pleasure it gives the giver or any instance where the displeasure is likely to be removed by a beating.

I am sorry for your childhood experiences. I find that kind of cruetly deeply saddening.

Robtex, it only becomes complex when people don't believe that God's Loves them and holds on to that reassurance. Other then that people have a million and one reasons why people suffer in general.

~Victor

 

[Quiddity]

Basically that is a thumbnail statement of the practice of Buddhism. This is a lifelong endeavor, which helps lead people to the understanding of how our lives work; and how we create the greatest part of our own suffering, through our egos and attachments to various impermanent things/people.

This is a path upon which I have walked a ways, but have nowhere near come to the end of yet. It is a practice I will continue for the rest of this lifetime.

I would recommend reading the outline of Buddhism in the Buddhist Forum here for a slightly more in-depth explanation, for those interested.

Interesting, how then are natural disasters explained?
Thanks
~Victor

 

[michel]

Yeh but boys are mummies boys On saying that I still need my mum if only she were around so I guess I shall give your tips ago next time Im down thanks Michel..

Perhaps you could try 'talking to' your Dad - I guess maybe it has to be the one with whom we should have had the closest relationship - for girls, that is more often the Father - the ultimate male role model.

Gee, I am so good at telling others.............:biglaugh: