Answer to suffering?

[Engyo]

Interesting, how then are natural disasters explained?
Thanks
~Victor

Sorry; wrote a long response and it got eaten (another natural disaster oh my!).

Natural disasters are natural. They are only disasters to us humans. They are disastrous only because we insist on living in areas subject to hurricanes, earthquakes, blizzards, floods, forest fires, tsunami, etc. We also insist on forgetting that our civilization is supported by an extremely fragile system; think about what happens to your home area if no truckloads of food, pipeloads of water, etc. come in for two weeks. Very few areas in today's world could survive something like that in any civilized fashion.

 

[Quiddity]

Kinda, but there are qualities of hot and cold that make it a stretch. I can't think of a good analogy except for this: Imagine you go through your whole life having three square meals a day, without exception. You don't question it and you're not very grateful. You don't even think about it, but one day you only get one, and you only get one a day for weeks. You never considered this before, and suddenly you wish you had three all over again (I would probably start crying). You appreciate the three meals all of a sudden. You get three meals on occasion and it makes you really happy. Suddenly one is bad and three is good. Three never made you happy before, but now it does.

Thanks for sharing that but I disagree. Something can exist without making a distiction...

He didn't understand the guilt of sin or the weight of imperfection. By taking our sins upon Him He learned what it felt like to be a guilty human. This helps Him to empathize with us.

Oh my.. I hope your not saying that God sinned???

~Victor

 

[Quiddity]

Sorry; wrote a long response and it got eaten (another natural disaster oh my!).

Natural disasters are natural. They are only disasters to us humans. They are disastrous only because we insist on living in areas subject to hurricanes, earthquakes, blizzards, floods, forest fires, tsunami, etc. We also insist on forgetting that our civilization is supported by an extremely fragile system; think about what happens to your home area if no truckloads of food, pipeloads of water, etc. come in for two weeks. Very few areas in today's world could survive something like that in any civilized fashion.

Thanks Engyo, but Im not sure what area in the world has no natural disasters. Most all do.

~Victor

 

[Ernesto]

Oh my.. I hope your not saying that God sinned???

Don't mean to get personal, but perhaps you need to chill a little whenever someone disagrees with your strict religious views.

Mankind is destructve. God created mankind. Perhaps God has sinned?

 

[Quiddity]

Don't mean to get personal, but perhaps you need to chill a little whenever someone disagrees with your strict religious views.

Mankind is destructve. God created mankind. Perhaps God has sinned?

Ernesto, thanks for trying to cool me down but I wasn't even in a high state of emotion at all. It was a question that I had no idea Mormons held.
But thanks for your ancient argument of "it's God's fault".

~Victor

 

[Engyo]

Thanks Engyo, but Im not sure what area in the world has no natural disasters. Most all do.

~Victor

That's right. So all we can do is accept that these things happen, and try to deal with them the best we can. Blaming them on deities, or on the morals of the people living in the subject area, seems unproductive to me.

 

[dan]

Thanks for sharing that but I disagree. Something can exist without making a distiction...
Oh my.. I hope your not saying that God sinned???

~Victor

He took our sins upon Him. He carried them for us. He never sinned, but the sacrifice would have meant nothing unless He was weighed down with all of our sins. He experienced all that we experience.

 

[Quiddity]

That's right. So all we can do is accept that these things happen, and try to deal with them the best we can. Blaming them on deities, or on the morals of the people living in the subject area, seems unproductive to me.

Very true...:clap

~Victor

 

[Ernesto]

Ernesto, thanks for trying to cool me down but I wasn't even in a high state of emotion at all. It was a question that I had no idea Mormons held.
But thanks for your ancient argument of "it's God's fault".

~Victor

I'm not sayign it's God's fault. How can I believe it's God's fault when I don't believe in God?

 

[Quiddity]

I'm not sayign it's God's fault. How can I believe it's God's fault when I don't believe in God?

What was this:
"Mankind is destructve. God created mankind. Perhaps God has sinned?"
Am I missing something?

~Victor

 

[ayani]

Victor-

i really am not sure what to say... the issue of suffering, why we suffer and what purpose (as many do not want to think of their suffering as for nothing) pain leads to have bothered me for years. i just haven't found many answers.

i remember a quote from a book i especially love that said "what a man has suffered, no force on earth can take from him". what we have suffered, endured, lived through can be looked back upon with something like accomplishment, though it can take a long time, coming to that stage.

i still feel angry, guilty, depressed, and hurt. but i try not to push those feelings away, really. they are with me too, and they will always be with me. my scars, memories, everything. i try to take all of it in my arms now. i use my experiences to reach out to and communicate with others who can similarly relate.

from suffering can come community, growth, and creativity. i don't know what the big answers to suffering may be. but i do know how i and others have found little answers. and those have made all the difference.

 

[Ernesto]

What was this:
"Mankind is destructve. God created mankind. Perhaps God has sinned?"
Am I missing something?

~Victor

I was saying that you should open up your possibilities, as long as you do believe in God.

 

[Quiddity]

Thanks Gracie that was a good read.

I was saying that you should open up your possibilities, as long as you do believe in God.

Open up my possibilites to molding my own God?
No thanks.....been there.:banghead3

~Victor

 

[Ernesto]

Open up my possibilites to molding my own God?
No thanks.....been there.:banghead3

Good to hear

 

[Tez]

Can't remeber what site I found this on but It shows how god sinned (Since there was a little debate of that going on), I thought it was pretty interesting.

PRIDE
After creating various bits and bobs in Genesis, we are told "And God saw that it was good". So, He takes pride in His work, apparently.

Also, when John baptised Jesus (good job he did, because we all know what happens to un-baptised people when they die...) God said, and I quote, "You are my son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased". God, who is Jesus, loves and is pleased with Jesus, who is God. If you knew someone who claimed to love and be pleased with himself, wouldn't that hint at a self-proud person?


WRATH
Well, according to the Old Testament, God was a genocidal maniac of Biblical proportions (naturally). However, it could be argued that many of the mass-slaughters described therein were not done out of anger, but for some other Godly motives. Fair enough, but are there any specific examples of wrath?

Samuel (24:1) tells us :"Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying 'Go and take a census of Israel and Judah'". Burning anger? Sounds like Wrath to me.

Also from Samuel (6:6) "When they came to the threshing-floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. The LORD's anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down and he died there beside the Ark of God." Presumably God would have preferred the Ark to fall into the mud, but Uzzah paid the price here...


ENVY
From the Ten Commandments : "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God..." Says it all, really. We don't even need to look for the evidence here, as we get it straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak).


SLOTH
Back to Genesis again: "By the seventh day God finished the work He had been doing; so on the seventh day He rested from all His work."
Being omnipotent, god cannot get tired. If He has access to an infinite supply of energy (as we are led to believe), He could create a billion galaxies without so much as breaking into a sweat. It looks like He was just slobbing around...

- Tez

 

[dan]

Can't remeber what site I found this on but It shows how god sinned (Since there was a little debate of that going on), I thought it was pretty interesting.

PRIDE
After creating various bits and bobs in Genesis, we are told "And God saw that it was good". So, He takes pride in His work, apparently.

Also, when John baptised Jesus (good job he did, because we all know what happens to un-baptised people when they die...) God said, and I quote, "You are my son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased". God, who is Jesus, loves and is pleased with Jesus, who is God. If you knew someone who claimed to love and be pleased with himself, wouldn't that hint at a self-proud person?

1) These laws are for us, not for Him

2) There's a huge difference between being pleased and being prideful. If you throw a liberal interpretation over the Englsih translation of a three thousand year oldtext you can get it to mean whatever you want.

WRATH
Well, according to the Old Testament, God was a genocidal maniac of Biblical proportions (naturally). However, it could be argued that many of the mass-slaughters described therein were not done out of anger, but for some other Godly motives. Fair enough, but are there any specific examples of wrath?

Samuel (24:1) tells us :"Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying 'Go and take a census of Israel and Judah'". Burning anger? Sounds like Wrath to me.

Also from Samuel (6:6) "When they came to the threshing-floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. The LORD's anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down and he died there beside the Ark of God." Presumably God would have preferred the Ark to fall into the mud, but Uzzah paid the price here...

There's wrath and their's righteous indignation, like what Christ experienced when He cleansed the Temple. These were strict commandments that were being ignored.

ENVY
From the Ten Commandments : "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God..." Says it all, really. We don't even need to look for the evidence here, as we get it straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak).

THis is a Hebrew word that really means zealous, or filled with zeal. A lot of the words in the Old Testament have different meanigns today. In 1611 (when the KJV was transalted) fear meant awe, and terrible meant majestical.

SLOTH
Back to Genesis again: "By the seventh day God finished the work He had been doing; so on the seventh day He rested from all His work."
Being omnipotent, god cannot get tired. If He has access to an infinite supply of energy (as we are led to believe), He could create a billion galaxies without so much as breaking into a sweat. It looks like He was just slobbing around...

- Tez

Oh, tha's a good one.

 

[michel]

Men and women respond differently to mental suffering, but both can benefit from different things. In summary, women, for the most part, jsut want someone to feel bad with them for a while. They're not looking to be fixed, whereas men tend to be more analytical and goal oriented in problem-solving. Guys want stuff to work right, so they try to fix stuff. Men and women both seek both of these forms of comfort, but one usually overrides the other. You seem confused as to exactly what you were seeking. It seems the emotional part of you wanted some empathy and care but the analytical part of you was left unfulfilled concerning the need for the pain you went through.

have you been speaking to my wife ?

I have always been a believer in cognitive self examination; for every hurt, for every knee jerk reaction, there is a past event that can be pointed to and blamed for the gut reaction.

The trouble is that it is 'Half the cure' - as i have been told many times before - for me, it is the wrong half...:biglaugh: Just because I know from where a hurt originated doesn't help me deal with later re-visits; mind you, I am quite good at helping others...........

 

[Tez]

1) These laws are for us, not for Him

So you are saying that God can do whatever he wants but if we do whatever we want then we are bad and should be "sent to hell, for eternal suffering". That doesn’t seem like an all knowing, all loving god, that sounds more like an arrogant, hypocritical god.

2) There's a huge difference between being pleased and being prideful. If you throw a liberal interpretation over the English translation of a three thousand year oldtext you can get it to mean whatever you want.

Exactly! Million and millions of people base there religious believes on this three thousand year old text, and you are saying that anyone can get it to mean whatever they want it to. So people following this text are not actually following the "word of god", but the word of whoever is interpreting the text at that time.

THis is a Hebrew word that really means zealous, or filled with zeal. A lot of the words in the Old Testament have different meanigns today. In 1611 (when the KJV was transalted) fear meant awe, and terrible meant majestical.

If this is true, then i'm 100% positive that its not the only word in the bible to have a different meaning today. So what if there are other things in the bible that are well known and are a huge part of it, that originally started as saying the complete opposite. Then again in that case no one is following the "True word of God".


Well thats my oppinion, Feel free to dissagree .


- Tez

 

[Angama]

It appears the thread starter is attempting to show that comfort and hope is all we have in the big scope of why we suffer. God if he exist must have a greater plan in which most of us do not understand. After all, who likes pain?

AA

 

[Quiddity]

It appears the thread starter is attempting to show that comfort and hope is all we have in the big scope of why we suffer. God if he exist must have a greater plan in which most of us do not understand. After all, who likes pain?

AA

That is rather close to what I was getting at. Suffering is one of many reasons why atheist/non-christians turn away from the Judaistic God of Abraham. Understanding that suffering isn't always a bad thing is a step in the right direction. Rather hard to swallow though.

~Victor