Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

[Storm]

Is your opinion of Savage based on having ready many more than a single column?

Yeah, but I never saw anything that began to make up for that.

 

[A Troubled Man]

"But, I have a right to defend myself and to point out the hypocrisy of people who justify anti-gay bigotry by pointing to the Bible and insisting we must live by the code of Leviticus on this one issue and no other."

Frankly, I don't see anything wrong with what Savage had to say here.

 

[HerDotness]

Holy strawman!

Nobody's said anything of the sort. What we have said is that Savage is not an appropriate speaker for a high school, for obvious reasons.

Oh, because he tells it like it IS, that's why he's unsuitable to speak to high school students?

Or maybe it's because he used language you'll hear every day in the halls during every class change that he's unsuitable?

Let's stifle him, because he lays out the truth--that Christians cherrypick the hell out of the Bible, disregarding passages they know no one will follow today such as Christian women not styling their hair elaborately or wearing gold jewelry (Paul) or stoning your child who mouths off at you to death but latch onto "the Word of God" that gays are an abomination because THAT portion happens to support their pet bias.

No purposeful inconsistency at all, is there?

Couldn't help noticing that several of these "outraged" walkouts were smiling and laughing as they did so. Looks like they needed better coaching or a better acting teacher. But then, maybe they were exulting over their conviction that Savage will burn in hell...that would make sense, wouldn't it?

 

[HerDotness]

One more thought--are we so naive as to think that if Savage had criticized the Bible in quite suitable language that people would have regarded his speech differently?

The truth always bites nastily.

And the Bible wins due to its ironclad immunity to criticism yet again.

 

[Falvlun]

I watched the 3 min clip at the end of the article.

Besides calling the students who left "pansy-*****", I really see absolutely nothing wrong with what he said in that clip.

What he said was completely true: The vast majority of Christians do dispense with all the other ******** in the Bible, regarding slavery, shellfish, stoning people for adultery, etc. Human sexuality is one of the last hold-outs. How is that bullying to point that out?

And really, guys, highschoolers don't know or regularly use such words as the extended version of "BS"? That is a common use of a "swear" word to mean "bogus stuff that we should call you on." It's not bullying, nor really inappropriate, to use that word in the manner that he did. Also, it is really misleading to say that he "cursed" teens; this was not a cussing out; this was not an "F-you!". A little perspective, please.

To me, it seems like this is just a case where "OMG! He didn't afford religious beliefs the above and beyond respect that religion demands and expects! The world is coming to an end!"

 

[no-body]

I love Dan Savage but you have to take him with a few tanker trailers full of salt. You get what you pay for, considering his style calling them pansies is getting off pretty light. And really they where a bunch of pansies for not being able to take a little criticism. Christians love to play the martyr card whenever you try to stop them from oppressing others.

 

[Storm]

Oh, because he tells it like it IS, that's why he's unsuitable to speak to high school students?

No, he's unsuitable to speak because, as I said initially, he's a mediocre shock jock.

 

[A Troubled Man]

No, he's unsuitable to speak because, as I said initially, he's a mediocre shock jock.

Ah, the Poisoning The Well fallacy.

 

[Storm]

Ah, the Poisoning The Well fallacy.

Not at all. If you had actually read my posts in this thread, you'd see I have reason for thinking so.

 

[A Troubled Man]

Not at all. If you had actually read my posts in this thread, you'd see I have reason for thinking so.

I did read your posts and found no reason for you to believe otherwise. Sorry. Stating that Savage is a "mediocre shock jock" doesn't change the fallacy.

 

[Storm]

I did read your posts and found no reason for you to believe otherwise. Sorry. Stating that Savage is a "mediocre shock jock" doesn't change the fallacy.

I stated more than that.... Learn your fallacies.

 

[Kathryn]

Hope I'm not repeating something that's already been posted.

Here is an article from the Seattle newspaper:

Sparks fly over Dan Savage's comments to students about Bible | Local News | The Seattle Times

Sparks fly over Dan Savage's comments to students about Bible
When about two dozen students, and some advisers, walked out, Savage said, "I have a right to defend myself and to point out the hypocrisy" of biblical commandments, he said.

By Jonathan Martin
Seattle Times staff reporter

Dan Savage at NSPA and JEA conference (warning: explicit language)


Dan Savage, Seattle's reigning journalist provocateur, has again stumbled into the cross hairs of political conservatives, this time for a speech involving the Bible, gays and what he called a "pansy-*****" protest by high-school students.

Savage's speech, at a 3,000-student gathering of young journalists in Seattle, linked bullying of gay kids with biblical denunciations of homosexuality. Savage, noting the Bible also banned masturbation and the eating of shellfish, said, "We ignore the ******** in the Bible about all sorts of things."

When about two dozen students, and some advisers, walked out, Savage said, "I have a right to defend myself and to point out the hypocrisy" of biblical commandments.

A short video clip of Savage's hourlong speech, delivered last month, went viral this weekend, and conference organizers Monday denounced Savage for having "belittled the faith of others."

Savage on Sunday apologized on the website of The Stranger, where he is editorial director and writes a nationally syndicated sex-advice column.

In an interview, Savage said he regretted using vulgar terms and apologized for his description of the walkout, but defended his description of the Bible.

Savage said the speech is one he has repeatedly given in promoting "It Gets Better," his hugely successful project to help gay, lesbian and transgender youths cope with bullying. The project has at least 40,000 videos — testimonials meant to offer encouragement — including one by President Obama, and an accompanying book that debuted on The New York Times best-seller list.

Savage, 47, said he asked the organizers — the National Scholastic Press Association and Journalism Education Association — if he should "moderate" the speech. "They said, 'No. Be yourself; do what you do.' "

"It wasn't like I sneaked up on a Bible study class and commandeered the podium. I'm like the devil. You have to invite me in," said Savage.

In the speech, Savage, citing Sam Harris' "Letter to a Christian Nation," said the Bible gave instructions about how to treat slaves. If the Bible erred "on the easiest moral question that humanity has ever faced ... What are the odds that the Bible got something as complicated as human sexuality wrong? 100 percent," said Savage. Students are heard cheering and clapping.

After the walkout, which came after Savage made comments about the Bible, he suggested the protesting students return. "It's funny, as someone who is the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible, how pansy-***** some people react when you push back," Savage said.

Rick Tuttle, a journalism adviser from Sutter Union High School in Northern California, told Fox News his students walked out of what they thought would be anti-bullying talk, but "what we got was a vulgar, profanity-laced attack on Christians."

In a statement, the organizers said Savage "veered from the topic" of bullying. Student journalism "should not shy away from controversial topics and viewpoints. But it should promote and engage in civil discourse. Mr. Savage's speech fell short of that standard, and for this our organizations apologize."

Savage has a history of walking back from over-the-top political rhetoric, and apologized for sarcastically wishing in 2011 that Republicans "were all [expletive] dead" on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher."

Savage said he gave the speech to the student journalists for free, got a standing ovation and signed books after the event.

He said he intended his derogatory remark to apply to the walkout, not the students themselves. "Pansies are some of my favorite people," he said.


What a jerk. He's entitled to every one of these opinions, but why he thought this speech would be appropriate for the high school audience or the topic, I have no idea.

So much for teaching tolerance and respect for others.

 

[Kathryn]

Nope.

This Fox article, dated April 30 mentions that he apologized afterwards.

Dan Savage Bullies Christian Teens in Speech at Anti-Bullying Conference, Says to Ignore “************” in the Bible | Fox News Insider

 

[Kathryn]

Oh, because he tells it like it IS, that's why he's unsuitable to speak to high school students?

Or maybe it's because he used language you'll hear every day in the halls during every class change that he's unsuitable?

Let's stifle him, because he lays out the truth--that Christians cherrypick the hell out of the Bible, disregarding passages they know no one will follow today such as Christian women not styling their hair elaborately or wearing gold jewelry (Paul) or stoning your child who mouths off at you to death but latch onto "the Word of God" that gays are an abomination because THAT portion happens to support their pet bias.

No purposeful inconsistency at all, is there?

Couldn't help noticing that several of these "outraged" walkouts were smiling and laughing as they did so. Looks like they needed better coaching or a better acting teacher. But then, maybe they were exulting over their conviction that Savage will burn in hell...that would make sense, wouldn't it?

Savage was not hired to give a speech denouncing Christianity. It was completely inappropriate for him to bring up religion at all - as well as unnecessary.

If non Christians don't want Christianity's teachings and moral values crammed down their throats, they should treat others as they want to be treated and not try to cram their own moral values and opinions of Christianity down the throats of others either.

Especially an adult - a public speaker to a group of public high school students. My gosh, if a hired Christian speaker had gotten up and used that sort of intolerant language and shown such blatant disrespect toward atheists, or Muslims, or any other group, they would have been run out of town on a rail.

 

[Apex]

What a jerk. He's entitled to every one of these opinions, but why he thought this speech would be appropriate for the high school audience or the topic, I have no idea.

So much for teaching tolerance and respect for others.

It is sad that it seems the anti-bullying movement is being taken advantage by the anti-religious as a means to push their agenda.

 

[Kathryn]

I love Dan Savage but you have to take him with a few tanker trailers full of salt. You get what you pay for, considering his style calling them pansies is getting off pretty light. And really they where a bunch of pansies for not being able to take a little criticism. Christians love to play the martyr card whenever you try to stop them from oppressing others.

If a Christian speaker had used the same sort of language against atheists and a group of them walked out, would you call them "pansies for not being able to take a little criticism?"

Walking out of a speech or an assembly is a long -standing traditional form of protest - it has nothing to do with "not being able to take a little criticism."

 

[Kathryn]

It is sad that it seems the anti-bullying movement is being taken advantage by the anti-religious as a means to push their agenda.

It's sad but predictable.

So often, groups that are up in arms about "tolerance" are intolerant themselves.

It's like going to a UU church. They claim to be universalist and open to all manner of religious or non religious spirituality as well as political activism, but just try to go to one and express conservative views or mainstream Christian forms of worship or doctrinal beliefs. You're likely to find that your ideas are not very well tolerated.

 

[Kathryn]

This applies to all parties on this thread - and to Savage and the kids who walked out and everyone in between:

 

[gnomon]

Savage was not hired to give a speech denouncing Christianity. It was completely inappropriate for him to bring up religion at all - as well as unnecessary.

If non Christians don't want Christianity's teachings and moral values crammed down their throats, they should treat others as they want to be treated and not try to cram their own moral values and opinions of Christianity down the throats of others either.

Especially an adult - a public speaker to a group of public high school students. My gosh, if a hired Christian speaker had gotten up and used that sort of intolerant language and shown such blatant disrespect toward atheists, or Muslims, or any other group, they would have been run out of town on a rail.

I guess it's a good thing he didn't give a speech denouncing Christians.

The fact of the matter is that he offered up the same criticism against Biblical literalists that have been offered up time and again. That a small number of people left compared to the majority who stayed, who statistically were predominantly Christian, just shows me that this whole controversy is manufactured. Calling out literalists for cherry-picking the Bible, especially over issues involving homosexuals, is nothing new. This particular guy happened to use the world ******** three times in specifically referring to those parts of the Bible. And that is to be construed as an attack on Christendom.

What's even worse is that this is a small bit from the entire speech. Where's the rest of the speech? What was it's content? Were the students who walked out all from that one school? If so, why?

But now people are linking one man's speech, for which he already apologized for, to make a connection between anti-bullying and anti-religious sentiment.

Manufactured controversy has achieved it's goal.

 

[A Troubled Man]

I stated more than that.... Learn your fallacies.

I know fallacies, that's why I was able to identify the fallacy you provided.