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Anti-theist? Why?

Nobody

Member
Fundamentalist extremism is a problem of people in general who see being uncivil towards beings who don't think the same way as them as the most effective way to furthering their aims, and not exclusively a problem of those possessesing religious worldviews as some here would say. I can easily demonstrate this by pointing out by pointing out the so called Reason Rally and its brainwashed supporters.

This should be good, what exactly was the problem with the reason rally? I thought the aim of it was to promote a secular society and to show that atheists aren't actually the evil baby eating monsters that some would like to think. Brainwashed? (Now that's what I call civil) In what way? Since atheism is only the lack of belief in god(s) and says nothing about someones politics or any other personal viewpoint for that matter I cannot see how you can claim the people at the Reason Rally were brainwashed, please elaborate. Apart from the non belief in god you can get two atheists who will disagree with each other about every topic imaginable.

Simply pointing at the Reason Rally and saying 'brainwashed' demonstrates nothing.

I find it absolutely hilarious how to be considered a 'fundamentalist atheist' (whatever that is supposed to be) all you need to do is to be uncivil.

Ok, I will admit that most, if not all of us ARE 'uncivil' at times. But not because of simply disagreeing with believers, it generally takes real, quantifiable harm that certain religious doctrines cause, or at the very least the uncivil behavior of others before most of us would attack (verbally) someone for holding those beliefs. Frankly I am sometimes amazed how civil atheists are considering the vilification we take on a regular basis. Oh and how I wish that the worst thing I could say about a 'fundamentalist extremists' is that they are uncivil.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
I think so, because even though some people sidestep saying so, deep down they think that what they believe really is true in some grand, all-prevailing sense whereas any contradictory beliefs are false. This attitude is what so easily enables many Christians to label Mormons or any other Christian sect whose beliefs they think aren't valid somehow as "not really Christians."

And atheism is without a doubt false because it hits at the essence of theism, deities.
That's just the sort of ignorant, gross over-generalization that every bigot relies on.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Fundamentalist extremism is a problem of people in general who see being uncivil towards beings who don't think the same way as them as the most effective way to furthering their aims, and not exclusively a problem of those possessesing religious worldviews as some here would say. I can easily demonstrate this by pointing out by pointing out the so called Reason Rally and its brainwashed supporters.

if one considers someone else to be worthy of hell, even though it doesn't exist, the reality is those same people will treat those who are worthy of hell as those who are worthy of hell...
simple. no brain washing...just the basic facts
 

Nobody

Member
So all believers must?

Of course it doesn't apply to all believers, to have that opinion you must first accept the doctrine of hell which most religions do not have, unfortunately the religions with the most influence do have it. It is unfair, but seems to be a case of guilt by association. For some people, (myself included) this kind of thing has the effect of poisoning us against all religion.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
there's also the doctrine of favoritism which really bothers the heck out of me...
and unfortunately that seems to be the one that has affected many
 

Prophet

breaking the statutes of my local municipality
This should be good, what exactly was the problem with the reason rally? I thought the aim of it was to promote a secular society and to show that atheists aren't actually the evil baby eating monsters that some would like to think. Brainwashed? (Now that's what I call civil) In what way? Since atheism is only the lack of belief in god(s) and says nothing about someones politics or any other personal viewpoint for that matter I cannot see how you can claim the people at the Reason Rally were brainwashed, please elaborate. Apart from the non belief in god you can get two atheists who will disagree with each other about every topic imaginable.

Simply pointing at the Reason Rally and saying 'brainwashed' demonstrates nothing.

People who are deluded into a belief that civil treatment only applies to beings who look, act, or believe the same as them are bigots. These people are being brainwashed into being extremist ideologues no different from their religious counterparts.


I find it absolutely hilarious how to be considered a 'fundamentalist atheist' (whatever that is supposed to be) all you need to do is to be uncivil.

It is fairly common for scientific and religious fundamentalists to advocate uncivil acts and speech towards those who don't think the same way as them.

Ok, I will admit that most, if not all of us ARE 'uncivil' at times. But not because of simply disagreeing with believers, it generally takes real, quantifiable harm that certain religious doctrines cause, or at the very least the uncivil behavior of others before most of us would attack (verbally) someone for holding those beliefs. Frankly I am sometimes amazed how civil atheists are considering the vilification we take on a regular basis. Oh and how I wish that the worst thing I could say about a 'fundamentalist extremists' is that they are uncivil.

If you were the one who had ignorant harmful views, would you change them if I educated you in the manner you advocate? I don't think its likely.
 

Prophet

breaking the statutes of my local municipality
Fundamentalist ideologies can be correctly identified by their basis upon irreducible, unprovable belief.

Atheists do not like to face that their core belief is both irreducible and unprovable, like any other "ignorant" religious belief. This is why atheist movements like the so-called Reason Rally rely upon hateful speech and feigned certainty to hide the shaky position they base everything upon.

It is highly ironic that they are just like the people who they hate so much.
 

Prophet

breaking the statutes of my local municipality
if one considers someone else to be worthy of hell, even though it doesn't exist, the reality is those same people will treat those who are worthy of hell as those who are worthy of hell...
simple. no brain washing...just the basic facts

I mostly agree, but... how is that not brainwashing? You made them agree to a belief which reduced their ability to empathize with others.
 
It is highly ironic that they are just like the people who they hate so much.

So if atheists publicly voice their opinions about religion they are hateful people? Does that mean that when theists publicly voice their opinions about religion that they are hateful against everyone that does not agree with their views?
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
not at all.
there are very nice people in this world who believe i am worthy of hell..
how nice...:sarcastic

So all believers must?

those that believe i am worthy of hell must what?
What are you talking about? For one thing, the stereotype that everyone who believes in God thinks a certain way has nothing to do with some people believing you're going to hell. Secondly, would you please TRY to keep up with the conversation?
 

Prophet

breaking the statutes of my local municipality
So if atheists publicly voice their opinions about religion they are hateful people? Does that mean that when theists publicly voice their opinions about religion that they are hateful against everyone that does not agree with their views?

You can disagree with someone using respect. You can disagree with someone by not using respect. Some people, such as the founders of the Reason Rally, encourage others to disagree by not using respect.

So, to answer your questions.

No. The "hatefulness" of a given atheist or theist is completely independent from his decision to publicly voice his opinions on religion. If a given atheist or theist is hateful, and this being allows this attitude to spill into his words about religion, observant beings will notice. However, other beings noticing the hatefulness does not make it come into existence as your question structure seemed to imply.
 
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You can disagree with someone using respect. You can disagree with someone by not using respect. Some people, such as the founders of the Reason Rally, encourage others to disagree by not using respect.

Taken from wikipedia:

According to the rally's official website, the event had three main goals:[2]
  • To encourage attendees (and those who couldn’t attend) to come "out of the closet" as secular Americans, or supporters of secular equality.
  • To dispel stereotypes ("there is no one 'True Atheist' "). Participation by non-theists of all political persuasions, ethnicities, genders, and backgrounds was encouraged. The intent was to show that there are secular Americans in every major demographic.
  • Legislative equality. Secular Americans should be permitted to run for public office and adequately represent non-theists, just as theists in office represent their constituents. Non-theists deserve a seat at the table just as theists do; the rally should put secular values "on the radar" of American voters.
Organizers said the aim of the rally was twofold: to unite individuals with similar beliefs and to show the American public that the number of people who don’t believe in God is large and growing. “We have the numbers to be taken seriously,” said Paul Fidalgo, spokesman for the Center for Inquiry, which promotes the scientific method and reasoning and was one of the organizations sponsoring the rally. “We’re not just a tiny fringe group.”[8]


There were many speakers at the rally besides Dawkins. Would it be fair of me to take a irrational remark from one christian and judge all christians by it? Judging a large event like the rally and everyone who attended on one persons remarks seems pretty weak to me.
 

Prophet

breaking the statutes of my local municipality
You mean like Bill Maher? :p

You do have a point, though. I should not have lumped in the entire Reason Rally.
 
I agree that discussing disagreements in a respectful manner is the best way to go. Getting carried away quickly becomes counter-productive. Bill Maher does make some good points though. Also, I don't see how atheists saying theists don't need religion is anymore offensive then theists telling atheists they need it.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
What are you talking about? For one thing, the stereotype that everyone who believes in God thinks a certain way has nothing to do with some people believing you're going to hell. Secondly, would you please TRY to keep up with the conversation?

who said everyone? not i.


pay attention.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
I mostly agree, but... how is that not brainwashing? You made them agree to a belief which reduced their ability to empathize with others.

can you clarify that...
i didn't do anything. :shrug:

people are capable of making their own judgments and owning up to them.
 
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