Anti-vaxers; The Real Issue.

[rrobs]

First of all, I want to make it 100% clear that I am not anti-vax, but does not the fact that there are around 150,000,000 folks in the US (not all dunderheads as often portrayed, let's keep it real) who apparently don't trust the government or our healthcare system give reason to pause and reconsider? Who's really to blame for the lack of trust?

 

[exchemist]

First of all, I want to make it 100% clear that I am not anti-vax, but does not the fact that there are around 150,000,000 folks in the US (not all dunderheads as often portrayed, let's keep it real) who apparently don't trust the government or our healthcare system give reason to pause and reconsider? Who's really to blame for the lack of trust?

The Republican Right.

They have been happy since day 1 to politicise and sow the seeds of distrust and misinformation about a perfectly normal and simple medical procedure.

 

[PureX]

First of all, I want to make it 100% clear that I am not anti-vax, but does not the fact that there are around 150,000,000 folks in the US (not all dunderheads as often portrayed, let's keep it real) who apparently don't trust the government or our healthcare system give reason to pause and reconsider? Who's really to blame for the lack of trust?

Not who, what. And the answer is that we are living in a capitalist culture. And capitalism is really just systematized greed. Which generates a lot of fear, and of course, mistrust. Especially as it inevitably destroys any society that is foolish enough to allow it.

 

[SigurdReginson]

People don't have to be stupid to have inaccurate beliefs; they just have to have a faulty or compromised epistemological toolset to work with.

The thing I find interesting about this whole thing is that it's not even necessarily the "government" that these people aren't trusting, but the knowledge base of much if the globe. Everyone acknowledges the existence of Covid and the importance of the vaccine the world over for the most part, except for these people. Same with climate change or the shape of the globe. This whole phenomenon is just so weird to see unfold...

 

[Kooky]

If you immerse a substantial portion of your national population 24/7 in a media landscape that tells them that scientists are evil stooges of the government, that the only authorities worth listening to are those who have the exact same beliefs as they do, and that their entire nation is imperiled if they comply with any medical requests that even slightly inconvenience them, then it's not hard to see the likely outcome.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I also think its the Republican party, this time. Next time it could be the Democrats. People revolt sometimes, and sometimes its against a king and sometimes against their own government. Sometimes ignorance is a big part of it, and in this case ignorance is a big part of it.

Ignorance about vaccines began with ignorance of Thimerosal, which was a preservative used in vaccines. People listened to (and spread) rumors that because Thimerosal was a molecule with mercury in it that it "Contained mercury." Such claims were very misleading and alarming, and I remember encountering them in forums and other social media.

Following this were claims that vaccines were to blame for autism, or could be. Since autism is a general set of symptoms and not a specific disease it follows that anything could be the cause. The anti vaccine movement grew under this umbrella from a fear of mercury to a more nameless fear.

More recently there have been claims that vaccines contained: alien biotech, nanites, brain washing tech, viruses or viral spreading agents, genetic manipulation tech and other claims.

 

[rrobs]

If you immerse a substantial portion of your national population 24/7 in a media landscape that tells them that scientists are evil stooges of the government, that the only authorities worth listening to are those who have the exact same beliefs as they do, and that their entire nation is imperiled if they comply with any medical requests that even slightly inconvenience them, then it's not hard to see the likely outcome.

What????

I do believe the media landscape tells us that we desperately need the vax. I've seen not one anti-vax on broadcast news. You can't find it on Facebook or twitter either (they get banned). Between those three things, a huge chunk of the population gets their information.

On the other hand, it's not always wrong to distrust one's government. The world might be a better place if Germans didn't trust their government in the 1940s.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

First of all, I want to make it 100% clear that I am not anti-vax, but does not the fact that there are around 150,000,000 folks in the US (not all dunderheads as often portrayed, let's keep it real) who apparently don't trust the government or our healthcare system give reason to pause and reconsider? Who's really to blame for the lack of trust?

Pause and reconsider what?

That they lack trust does not mean that what they lack trust in is untrustworthy. And I do not agree with your numbers. Surveys indicate that those that always consider themselves against vaccines run about 8-10% of the population or about 30,000,000 people.

What has persuaded you away from the anti-vax position? Are we to infer that it is a trust of government and the healthcare system?

Is the current president the legitimately elected president of the US?

 

[Kooky]

I also think it may be worth mentioning that anti-vaxxer movements have been around literally since the invention of vaccines, so this is hardly a recent phenomenon.

 

[Kooky]

What????

I do believe the media landscape tells us that we desperately need the vax. I've seen not one anti-vax on broadcast news. You can't find it on Facebook or twitter either (they get banned). Between those three things, a huge chunk of the population gets their information.

Ah, I see you haven't used the Internet before 2019.

On the other hand, it's not always wrong to distrust one's government. The world might be a better place if Germans didn't trust their government in the 1940s.

Because as we all know, Germans in the early 1940s were living under a democratically elected regime that was very sensitive to dissent and did not, oh, put hundreds of thousands of its own citizens into literal death camps.

 

[Revoltingest]

First of all, I want to make it 100% clear that I am not anti-vax, but does not the fact that there are around 150,000,000 folks in the US (not all dunderheads as often portrayed, let's keep it real) who apparently don't trust the government or our healthcare system give reason to pause and reconsider? Who's really to blame for the lack of trust?

So much blame to go around....
Tops on my list of giving out bad info, &/or setting bad examples...
Trump
Biden
AOC
OAN <-- Very anti-vax
But I'll also give Trump credit for fast tracking vaccines,
& to Biden for at least being pro vaccine & pro mask.

And remember, I didn't call you a "dunderhead".
I don't know enuf about your views to judge.

 

[Aštra’el]

Is someone still an “antivaxxer” if they took several vaccines before no problem but does not like the idea of taking the Covid vaccines?

 

[rrobs]

The Republican Right.

They have been happy since day 1 to politicise and sow the seeds of distrust and misinformation about a perfectly normal and simple medical procedure.

Oh yes, it's that simple...the Dems are right and the Reps are wrong. Nice tidy view of the world. Of course it bears little resemblance to actual reality.

Making complex issues simple cause all sorts of division. As much as we say, "those who forget history are doomed to repeat it," we seldom consider the problems caused by division. We just keep inventing new divisions.

 

[exchemist]

What????

I do believe the media landscape tells us that we desperately need the vax. I've seen not one anti-vax on broadcast news. You can't find it on Facebook or twitter either (they get banned). Between those three things, a huge chunk of the population gets their information.

On the other hand, it's not always wrong to distrust one's government. The world might be a better place if Germans didn't trust their government in the 1940s.

You are not paying attention then: Fox News backs Covid vaccination – a pity no one told Tucker Carlson

 

[SigurdReginson]

Is someone still an “antivaxxer” if they took several vaccines before no problem but does not like the idea of taking the Covid vaccines?

No. I would say it depends more on the reasoning than anything else. My sister doesn't want the vaccine, and though I think she is unwise in this regard, I don't think she is against vaccines.

My aunt, on the other hand, thinks the government is injecting nano-bots into people. She's an antivaxer.

 

[Shakeel]

So are anti vaxxers people who refuse the vaccination or people who object to people taking it or insist there is something fundamentally wrong about it?

All we have are people who take it and those who don't.

 

[rrobs]

So much blame to go around....
Tops on my list of giving out bad info, &/or setting bad examples...
Trump
Biden
AOC
OAN
But I'll also give Trump credit for fast tracking vaccines,
& to Biden for at least being pro vaccine & pro mask.

And remember, I didn't call you a "dunderhead".
I don't know enuf about your views to judge.

You, my friend, are a rarity here at RF. You actually realize that it's never good to make judgments without sufficient knowledge. Kudos to you!

Yes, there is a lot of blame to go around. To reduce it to anti-vaxers being unthinking, uncaring, ignorant, etc, is just nor keeping pace with reality. It's a very complex issue.

 

[esmith]

Let's see now according to Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity
Minorities make up the largest number of non-vacinated.
So, are some of you saying that minorites are Republicans?

 

[Revoltingest]

You, my friend, are a rarity here at RF. You actually realize that it's never good to make judgments without sufficient knowledge. Kudos to you!

Yes, there is a lot of blame to go around. To reduce it to anti-vaxers being unthinking, uncaring, ignorant, etc, is just nor keeping pace with reality. It's a very complex issue.

It's actually quite simple.
But some people's children manage to transmogrify it into complexity.

 

[rrobs]

Not who, what. And the answer is that we are living in a capitalist culture. And capitalism is really just systematized greed. Which generates a lot of fear, and of course, mistrust. Especially as it inevitably destroys any society that is foolish enough to allow it.

True enough. But then again, societies have been collapsing throughout written history. It started way before capitalism. It might appear to be the human condition itself, apart from any political or economic system.