Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I think the obligation is through historical restitution that has been agreed on, but has not been honored yet.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Anti-White Loan Forgiveness
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Minorities have more opportunities than ever before now. I think its high time to accept that substantial progress has already been made in making the playing field even, and accessible for all.
epronovost
Well-Known Member
Rule by tyrants was prior to the period of democracy. While the later stage of the Athenian democracy were certainly plagued by instability caused by the fall of its proto-empire and military defeats, social tensions linked to wealth disparities, political opportunism, corrupt aristocrats and the like this sort of instability is common in all States under similar duress. You will see the same signs even in absolute monarchy on their last legs with everybody trying to pull the rug under the others. When a boat starts to sink the rats are the first to try and get out.
Last edited:
epronovost
Well-Known Member
That's very true. But providing minorities with what they were always owed isn't giving them back what was stolen from them prior to that.
To make a crude analogy it's like if you were robbing about 25% of my paycheck every two week since the beginning of my career about 8 years ago and then, after denying doing it, claiming it was less then 25% and the like, I finally get you to admit to it and stop. You can't just tell "that we are cool" now. Sure I get my full paycheck, but that's what was always supposed to be expected. You still stole 25% of my pay for 8 years and built nice things for yourself and your friends with it while I could not. Someway somehow, I should expect to get my money back. It doesn't need to be hard coins, but we will have to figure something out. Yes, its tough and its very bothering and it will lead to you and me screaming at each other face for a while longer, but in the end we either commit to justice and human rights or we don't.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Other societies have passed the stress test or at least gone down with more dignity. And let's consider that ancient Athens was an ideal place for the experiment of democracy to succeed and it still didn't. How much less would it succeed in a modern country for various reasons.
Your argument takes it for granted that defeat for Athens was inevitable. But, perhaps Athens could have actually won the war if not for it's own politics. Rome for example came back from just as stressful of situations.
epronovost
Well-Known Member
Athens wasn't such a great place for a first experiment of democracy and pretty much like all first experiment it was, in the end, a failure. Though the Athenian democracy was also the period of greatest power and stability of the City-State which in the centuries prior was suffering important internal turmoil.
Actually no, Athens pretty much stood no chance in the war against Sparta and its allies. They combined a significantly greater population, wealth and army. Athens was actually rather lucky to hold its own so fine.
74x12
Well-Known Member
I would disagree with that. I think it was a really good place for democracy to succeed. It had a unified culture. It was a city state so it's population was really small compared to modern countries and that means each vote counted for far more. That means more power per person. It was a city that for it's time was especially devoted to the pursuit of wisdom, philosophy and learning so a relatively educated populace would theoretically make good decisions. Finally, it had financial stability. Due to it's wealthy silver mine and mercantile power. If it won't succeed there; then where?
I have to disagree again. I think it did stand a chance which is evidenced by the fact that Sparta was so willing to accept terms without ever actually breaking into the city. The fact is the Athenians suffered a disastrous defeat in it's poorly managed siege of Syracuse just previously. The Athenians lost much of their professional army and it was a big set back which made them vulnerable. Furthermore they had a plague from apparently infected grain they imported into the city during the siege. So that was run of bad luck for sure.
Despite what people thought of Spartans as soldiers they weren't truly invincible and the Athenians actually did win on land sometimes. In fact some might have the audacity to claim that Spartans were actually over trained for the type of fighting they needed to do. To just fight successfully in a phalanx doesn't necessarily require a lifetime of brutal training. The professional soldiers of Macedon proved they could hold their own without all that. It's just that compared with the average militia hoplites of Greek cities the Spartans were definitely stand outs.
That being said; it's undeniable that the Spartan's military system did make them formidable ... but it was actually a bit antiquated and as sacrilegious as it may sound; should probably have been out phased by a more professional army. Soon after the war with Athens; the Spartans themselves would go on to lose in open battle against Thebes showing how vulnerable they actually were. Some would say they were made vulnerable by the war with Athens.
It fits perfectly. It should have never happened.
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
Fortunately, this was in the past, so now we can just shrug and say "tough luck, but watchagonnadoo".
Or, perhaps hold our legal system and politicians accountable for overt acts of racism.
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
But only those in the present. Never those in the past. The past is forbidden territory, and besides, watchagonnadoo.
If you can't fix what is going on now, how can you hope to repair what happen then?
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
We can't, ever. Better leave an unfair system in place than fight unevenly against unfairness!
Oh, God, can we get over this reparations crap I see some arguing for? Everyone is descended from some group or other that was oppressed, enslaved, etc. at one point in time. Black people aren't special in terms of being victims, and they have victimized others (no one is innocent). Does Oprah, a multibillionaire, need her reparations, as well? 
As a person descended from slaves, I don't want any money from you white people. That's pathetic. I was never a slave and wasn't alive for Jim Crow. The past is past. What we do need is economic justice (or whatever you want to call it) for all the poor and working class people in the here and now, and your skin color or sex is totally irrelevant there. This race garbage is just a divide and conquer distraction.
As a person descended from slaves, I don't want any money from you white people. That's pathetic. I was never a slave and wasn't alive for Jim Crow. The past is past. What we do need is economic justice (or whatever you want to call it) for all the poor and working class people in the here and now, and your skin color or sex is totally irrelevant there. This race garbage is just a divide and conquer distraction.