Antitheism?

[idav]

Christianity and Islam are the two biggest theistic religions correct? Between them they probably account for more than 50% of all the world's theists. If I feel that both religions are now negative forces in society, I don't think it's ignorant (as you say), to be an anti-theist.

How much of that 50% of theists are actually a problem though? Extremism is a minority in religions, most people can barely even follow their own precepts.

 

[icehorse]

How much of that 50% of theists are actually a problem though? Extremism is a minority in religions, most people can barely even follow their own precepts.

You still have the problem of 400-600 million murders to deal with.

 

[icehorse]

Are you anti-Abrahamic? Or anti-theist?

Both, to varying degrees for varying specific religions. I'm more anti-Abrahamic than I am anti-Hindu for example. But theism itself seems no longer tenable to me on a world with terrifyingly powerful weapons and 7 billion people. Theism is almost always implemented with an us-vs-them orientation that we just can't continue to live with.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Theism is almost always implemented with an us-vs-them orientation that we just can't continue to live with.

Only we can, and we do, without any notion of god. In fact, it's been instigated here by anti-theism being nothing more than an "us vs. them" ideology. Outside of the Abrahamic faiths, you won't find many who really care what another person believes or does not believe.

But theism itself seems no longer tenable to me on a world with terrifyingly powerful weapons and 7 billion people.

Why would the scope of weapons and population (especially since most of that population is concentrated in India and China) have any bearing on the belief in gods?

Are these the only real objection to theism as a whole that we have? Basically "it's 2017 already"?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I noticed there seems to be a small number of Antitheists here, and I just wanted know what others thought about this theological position.

I am gonna ask two general questions, but feel free to give any input you like.

What are the difference between Antitheism and Atheism?

Is Antitheism a rational position?

There's really no good generally accepted definition for anti-theism. Some say it's a definition where there is no God(s), which would make it essentially equivalent with atheism. Others say it's a word for being anti-religion, but still believe there's no God. Again atheism restated. Deists are technically theists who believe, but don't claim certainty, that if God exists, It doesn't interact in the universe because there's no evidence that It does. So you could say that anti-theists are deists with an attitude--but little is gained from that except to say it's a deist or atheist with a strong antipathy for revealed religion. Best to just dump the word.

 

[icehorse]

Best to just dump the word.

I am one, and you haven't defined what I believe in this regard, so mitts off the word

 

[idav]

You still have the problem of 400-600 million murders to deal with.

Murder is not religions fault, its a human idiocy thing.

 

[JustWondering]

What a joke, even the most basic cosmological arguments are based on the empirical evidence supporting cause and effect.

You keep saying there's evidence. Why don't you actually provide it?

 

[LuisDantas]

A lot of people have posted since this reply. Yes, I realize you do not like theism. I may have forgotten the specific term. I did know know you called yourself antitheist or that it was a common thing. The movements are cleansings such as the French Revolution, the Stalinists, the Moaists etc. Once in a while someone decides its time for a cleansing, and it may be a theist or a nontheist, so I do not mean to imply antitheism is genocidal. It seems that antitheist is a political, somewhat more assertive word than atheist. An atheist is not taking action or is not opposing theism, but an antitheist is. The word connotes it.
I understand. Its what it ironically sounds like, however. If there is no deity then how can you oppose one? If I jump and shake my fist at God and threaten God (which could happen), what am I? Am I not a true 'Antitheist' at that moment? I both believe in and oppose God then. That is what this term sounds like, even if that is not what it means. If on the other hand I do not believe in gods, then I can only shake my fist at followers or practices and beliefs. Couldn't a better, more precise term be found?

I guess you are too used to political movements that rely on big causes. Antitheism is no more worrisome or unusual than, say, opposition to communism or immigration. A lot less, as a matter of fact.

 

[Curious George]

I still think you're reading too far into what I said. I'm saying that saying 'hate the sin not the sinner' is usually a thinly veiled excuse to hate the sinner while saying you don't hate them. (I dont hate gays I just think homosexuality should be eliminated from public view.) And I feel the same is true of the antitheists that I meet most of the time. They say they hate the belief in gods but what they do is treat believers like crap, or really generalize or reduce what theism is to a narrow band of mostly Abrahamic orthodox or fundamentalist belief.
What's harmful is:
Generalizing theism and responding to theism as one single belief. Not attempting to communicate with theists as to what their belief is, before saying 'you believe x.'
Attempting to force religious removal similarly to totalitarian secular regimes.

I think it's profoundly short sighted to believe the world would be a better place without religion, but that's not what I'm talking about with bigotry.

And interestingly enough, it is not the antitheists in this thread that are attacking theists. It seems to me that your statements smack of "I'm not saying all black people are bad, it's just my experience with the ones I meet"

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I don't think anyone is attacking anyone. We're discussing ideologies.

 

[Curious George]

I don't think anyone is attacking anyone. We're discussing ideologies.

They have been called bigots, zealots, angry people, not reasonable intelligent people, not rational people, and close-minded. And these are just the direct comments regarding the people not the implications made about them. This is not discussing the belief system this is discussing the believers. Ignoring the ad hominem attacks does not make them disappear. I would not have said what I had if the posts in this thread were regarding the ideology not the people who have that ideaology.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Fair point, but that doesn't make them ad hominem. Ad hominem would be something like "You're wrong because you're a zealot." Not "You're wrong. Also you're a zealot."

 

[Curious George]

Fair point, but that doesn't make them ad hominem. Ad hominem would be something like "You're wrong because you're a zealot." Not "You're wrong. Also you're a zealot."

LOL, I see from where you are coming, but an ad hominem is an attack on the character in an effort to disparage their argument

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Indeed it is. So simply saying that someone is a zealot or a bigot isn't necessarily ad hominem. If that is used to invalidate their argument or position, then yes. But if it's simply a statement of character, then it's not.

 

[Curious George]

Indeed it is. So simply saying that someone is a zealot or a bigot isn't necessarily ad hominem. If that is used to invalidate their argument or position, then yes. But if it's simply a statement of character, then it's not.

Yet that is exactly what is being done. Character attacks serve no other purpose in a discourse about ideaology.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Atheist believe there are no gods.

Anti theists are convinced there are no gods.

By those definitions, Atheists hold a rational position. Anti-theists do not.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I noticed there seems to be a small number of Antitheists here, and I just wanted know what others thought about this theological position.

I am gonna ask two general questions, but feel free to give any input you like.

What are the difference between Antitheism and Atheism?

Is Antitheism a rational position?

To be an atheist simply means one lacks belief, to be an antitheist is to take it further and actively oppose religion.

I am technically both. As to the why for the latter, I find most religion to be a cancer that actively stifles actual progress both socially and scientifically, a scourge that sells a narrative of paranoia and schizophrenia, causing divisive and violent behaviour. That, among other things..

 

[ADigitalArtist]

And interestingly enough, it is not the antitheists in this thread that are attacking theists. It seems to me that your statements smack of "I'm not saying all black people are bad, it's just my experience with the ones I meet"

Don't know what thread you're reading but

They have been called bigots, zealots, angry people, not reasonable intelligent people, not rational people, and close-minded.

Some of the antitheists here have said all of these things about theists. The very foundation of most of their argument is 'theism is irrational/theists are irrational'/their belief is harmful because of dogma and they are wrong and their religion should be gone. All the while unable to differentiate between the problematic behaviors of some theists and theism as a whole. Literally saying 'antitheism is justified because some Christians and Muslims do bad things.'

 

[Willamena]

I'm not personally afraid, I'm afraid of its impact on society.

And the definition of antitheism has nothing to do with you, personally.