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Any JW want to take a stab at this one?

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
domestic animals and creeping animals and wild animals of the earth according to their kinds

Wait...

Domesticed animals were created before there was any reason for them to be domesticated? If there were no people, and no society, and no culture, how were domestic animals to survive? How did they survive along side the non-domestic animals?

The Bible, and God of course, know of the Aurochs, right?

Aurochs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also,

The Creator is hardly going to make vegetation grow in thin air. God raised the vegetation from the soil, just as we would plant flowers in a garden. He made all things to produce seed and continue to perpetuate the life he started.

Everything is designed to go on reproducing life, with no intervention from its Maker.

How long did it take God's botanical garden to fill the atmosphere with oxygen? Was it just a few hours, since all of creation happened in 6 days, or is there more to it than that, not contained in the Bible?

And the God that felt the need to plant each and every seed in that garden doesn't seem very consistent in his behavior. Why would an OCD botanical god suddenly change his tactic and instead just decide to wind the watch dials and let his system run indefinitely? Seems like God #2 trusts his creation to evolutionary processes while God #1 doesn't trust anything but himself... Either way, both of their systems failed, since they had to be destroyed a few years later in a great flood because they sucked, according to the God who made them...
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
The sad thing is that my observation will go unresponded to by the offenders and they will continue to use their ignorant stawmen time and time again without ever having to defend them or acknowledge their clear and obvious error.

Did a god plant the Arcto-Tertiary Geoflora or the Neotropical-Tertiary Geoflora or the Madro-Tertiary Geoflora first?
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
LOL ... nice try. Would you be so kind as to show us where anyone (except you and your fellow travelers) has ever claimed that grass became animals birds and sea creatures?

Well since all life is supposed to have come from that first "simple" cell that emerged from the primordial soup.....what are we left to believe? Apparently, it is amazing what millions of years of undirected chance can accomplish.

It appears though that on closer inspection, the "simple" cell was not so simple after all. It needed a designer too.
 
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Sapiens

Polymathematician
Well since all life is supposed to have come from that first "simple" cell that emerged from the primordial soup.....what are we left to believe? Apparently, I t is amazing what millions of years of undirected chance can accomplish.

It appears though that on closer inspection, the "simple" cell was not so simple after all. It needed a designer too.
Once again you demonstrate the lack of background that would be shaming in an elementary school student. No one ever said that "undirected chance" was involved or that life began with a simple cell. You should at least learn as much biology as the average biologist knows about religion.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Wait...

Domesticed animals were created before there was any reason for them to be domesticated? If there were no people, and no society, and no culture, how were domestic animals to survive? How did they survive along side the non-domestic animals?

What is a domestic animal? It is an animals that is capable of co-existing with man in a mutually beneficial co-existence. It doesn't mean that they are incapable of looking after themselves, especially when the Creator had provided for them abundantly, long before man came on the scene. All living things had food water and a suitable environment in which to thrive.

The Bible, and God of course, know of the Aurochs, right?

Aurochs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See above.

How long did it take God's botanical garden to fill the atmosphere with oxygen? Was it just a few hours, since all of creation happened in 6 days, or is there more to it than that, not contained in the Bible?

The creative days were not 24 hour days. In fact, the Bible gives us every reason to believe that the 7th day has not yet ended. God's purpose is by no means accomplished yet.....but it will be.

The vegetation was here thousands of years before there were creatures who would eat it or breathe the oxygen produced by the trees. Plenty of time to generate the delicate mixture of gases needed for all living things to breathe.

Of course it is just another fortunate accident that creatures breathe oxygen and exhale co2 and the trees breathe in co2 and produce oxygen......no intelligent design behind that at all. :rolleyes:

And the God that felt the need to plant each and every seed in that garden doesn't seem very consistent in his behavior. Why would an OCD botanical god suddenly change his tactic and instead just decide to wind the watch dials and let his system run indefinitely? Seems like God #2 trusts his creation to evolutionary processes while God #1 doesn't trust anything but himself... Either way, both of their systems failed, since they had to be destroyed a few years later in a great flood because they sucked, according to the God who made them...

I'll leave the readers here to contemplate the validity of that response. o_O
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
What is a domestic animal? It is an animals that is capable of co-existing with man in a mutually beneficial co-existence. It doesn't mean that they are incapable of looking after themselves, especially when the Creator had provided for them abundantly, long before man came on the scene. All living things had food water and a suitable environment in which to thrive.



See above.



The creative days were not 24 hour days. In fact, the Bible gives us every reason to believe that the 7th day has not yet ended. God's purpose is by no means accomplished yet.....but it will be.

The vegetation was here thousands of years before there were creatures who would eat it or breathe the oxygen produced by the trees. Plenty of time to generate the delicate mixture of gases needed for all living things to breathe.

Of course it is just another fortunate accident that creatures breathe oxygen and exhale co2 and the trees breathe in co2 and produce oxygen......no intelligent design behind that at all. :rolleyes:



I'll leave the readers here to contemplate the validity of that response. o_O
Do the numbers, thousands of years, even millions of years are not long enough to cut the CO2 and produce the O2. That alone knocks your timescale into a cocked hat.

Fortunate act? Hardly. The first plants poisoned themselves and created an opening for first animals. After many sinusoidal oscillations things more or less leveled off.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member



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JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Once again you demonstrate the lack of background that would be shaming in an elementary school student. No one ever said that "undirected chance" was involved or that life began with a simple cell. You should at least learn as much biology as the average biologist knows about religion.

So sorry to offend the sensibilities of your learned self by my apparent ignorance. I just love the way evolution proponents gloss over the obviously ridiculous parts of their musings. Undirected chance is the basis for all you believe. What do we think mutations are? They are biological accidents.....seemingly beneficial ones. (Despite the fact that mutations are mostly detrimental)

If the mutation was done with purpose it wouldn't be a mutation...it would be a deliberate act to facilitate a beneficial change in the organism. What deliberate act on the part of any creature made them change color or height or anything else to benefit their existence or well being? Can a creature make his neck as long as a giraffe because his ancestors wanted to eat from the treetops? Can a plant manufacture the replica of an insect to sit on the cusp of its flower to fool an unsuspecting male looking for a mate, to pollinate it? It also added the insect's pheromone to make the masquerade complete. What a clever thing for a brainless plant to do!

Why do I need the words of men who can change everything they accept as truth today, with information from tomorrow's discoveries? I have the unchanging word of God, who has told me all I need to know. Details can be sketchy, but at least it makes perfect sense.

You are content with the teachings of men?...you are welcome to them.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Well since all life is supposed to have come from that first "simple" cell that emerged from the primordial soup.....what are we left to believe? Apparently, it is amazing what millions of years of undirected chance can accomplish.
Not undirected. Directed by nature.

It appears though that on closer inspection, the "simple" cell was not so simple after all. It needed a designer too.
So? Let's say God did design and create the first "simple" cell and then let evolution take place? It's too complicated for your God? It's to advanced for God to do what nature is giving us witness about?
 

McBell

Unbound
Well since all life is supposed to have come from that first "simple" cell that emerged from the primordial soup.....what are we left to believe? Apparently, it is amazing what millions of years of undirected chance can accomplish.

It appears though that on closer inspection, the "simple" cell was not so simple after all. It needed a designer too.
Apparently you stop learning about evolution when you put down your copy of the Watchtower literature.
Sad that you have to rely on lies and dishonesty to maintain your faith.
 

McBell

Unbound
Apparently you stop learning about evolution when you put down your copy of the Watchtower literature.
Sad that you have to rely on lies and dishonesty to maintain your faith.
I stand corrected.
Watchtower does not teach anything about evolution.
They merely present strawman after strawman.
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
So sorry to offend the sensibilities of your learned self by my apparent ignorance.
Glad to see that you grasp the situation clearly.
I just love the way evolution proponents gloss over the obviously ridiculous parts of their musings. Undirected chance is the basis for all you believe. What do we think mutations are? They are biological accidents.....seemingly beneficial ones. (Despite the fact that mutations are mostly detrimental)
No one ever claimed that chance produces evolution. But that one of the places where, in making the claim, your ignorance betrays you.
Why do I need the words of men who can change everything they accept as truth today, with information from tomorrow's discoveries? I have the unchanging word of God, who has told me all I need to know. Details can be sketchy, but at least it makes perfect sense.

You are content with the teachings of men?...you are welcome to them.
Because men learn every day and if their words (and thoughts) do no change with tomorrows discoveries they are left lying to themselves and everyone else. The word of god does not change because it is a work of fiction. A work of fiction that has repeatedly shown to be incorrect and left you believers scurrying for semantic shelter.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Do the numbers, thousands of years, even millions of years are not long enough to cut the CO2 and produce the O2. That alone knocks your timescale into a cocked hat.

With the teaching of evolution the numbers might not add up....but this is not the case with the purposeful design of an intelligent Creator. Everything was put in place at the start. No need to wait for so called "natural processes" to take place. I don't think we have to tell him what a natural process is....do you?

Fortunate act? Hardly. The first plants poisoned themselves and created an opening for first animals. After many sinusoidal oscillations things more or less leveled off.

I love this.....look at the language. Look at what you just said as if we should all just take that at face value and fall at your infallible feet.....:rolleyes:

Was anyone there to document all this Sapiens? Or is this the hypothesis of learned men making stabs in the dark about what "might have" taken place all those millions of years ago? You have no evidence......all you have are assumptions....learned ones, but assumptions none the less.

Your arrogant condescension makes me cringe. It seems as if this is a very common tactic with those who try to defend their untenable position. Academics might be smart, but they are by no means infallible. Anyone who disagrees with what you all believe, based on what men of science have assumed about a lot of things, (though no one can say with any certainty) must of necessity make their opposers, the dumb ones. Seriously. Everything you believe is assumed to be true. It can NEVER be stated as fact. You have what we have....BELIEF that certain things took place in a certain way. Nothing more.

Like I said, the Creator doesn't need you "clever" ones to believe in him...but he wishes you would. His plans will go ahead with you or without you. Your choice.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Natural selection.

Define "natural" selection. What is "natural" about a giraffe? Do you know what physical mechanism is needed to pump blood to the brain of something with a neck that long? Or the mechanism that requires its intake of water to be pumped an equal distance uphill in order to reach its stomach? No other animal has this problem.

Or a plant wearing a replica of a pollinating insect...complete with the correct pheromone? How does natural selection explain that? How did the plant know it would be beneficial to make that evolutionary change to ensure its survival?

Tell me how natural selection teaches a bird to build a nest that is exclusive in design to that particular species when the babies were not around to be taught by their parents?

How do birds and butterflies know how to migrate to places, thousands of miles away when they have never been there?

Then you might like to explain the "natural" process that ensures that we don't bleed to death when we cut ourselves. If this automatic process did not know when to stop, it could coagulate our entire blood stream. Just a product of blind evolution?

Then we like to talk about water...good old H2o. The most miraculous substance in existence. Where did water come from and why does it behave like no other liquid? Why does every creature on this planet require it when it has not been found anywhere else in our solar system?
Why is the greatest percentage of water on earth so salty that it is undrinkable? Did the clouds just know how to draw up water by evaporation and dump it on land to accidently keep living things alive? Did the process of precipitation just invent itself?

C'mon...I would like to hear how natural selection brought about those extraordinary processes. :confused:
They all sound like the work of an intelligent designer to me.
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
Sapiens, shared this link on another thread, but some interesting points in it.


Even setting evolution aside, basic geology disproves creationism

"

Early Christians read nature as well as the Bible

In researching my book
The Rocks Don't Lie: A Geologist Investigates Noah's Flood
, I looked into the history of thought about the biblical flood. What I found surprised me on two levels. First, most of the early workers who pioneered what we now call geology were clergy dedicated to reading God's other book—nature. Second, in pitting science against Christianity, today's young Earth creationists essentially ignore centuries of Christian theology.

"
For the first thousand years of Christianity, the church considered literal interpretations of the stories in Genesis to be overly simplistic interpretations that missed deeper meaning. Influential thinkers like Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas held that what we could learn from studying the book of nature could not conflict with the Bible because they shared the same author. Yes, it seems that one of the oldest traditions in Christian thought holds that when reason contradicts favored interpretations of scripture about the natural world then those interpretations should be reconsidered.

In keeping with this view, mainstream Christians reinterpreted the biblical stories of the creation and flood after geological discoveries revealed that Earth had a longer and more complicated history than would be inferred from a literal reading of Genesis. Perhaps, they concluded, the days in the week of creation corresponded to geological ages. Maybe Noah's flood was not global but a devastating Mesopotamian flood.

Young Earth creationists break from history

For over a century, such views dominated mainstream Christian theology until the twentieth century rise of young Earth creationism. This is the version of creationism to which Ken Ham subscribes – you might remember his debate with Bill Nye from 2014. Young Earth creationists imagine that people lived with dinosaurs and that Noah's flood shaped the world's topography. In fact, this brand of creationism, embodied by Ham's Creation Museum in Kentucky, is actually one of the youngest branches of Christianity's family tree.

Interestingly, one can challenge Flood Geology on biblical grounds. What did Noah do in the biblical story? He saved two of every living thing. So consider the case of fossils, which creationists attribute to the flood. What you find in the rocks is that more than 99% of all species entombed in the rock record are extinct. This simple fact offers a stark contrast to what you would expect to find based on a literal reading of the biblical story.

After looking into the long history of engagement and cross-pollination between geology and Christianity, I find it curious that the conversation constantly gravitates to arguments for and against evolution. Overlooked is how the young Earth creationist's literal interpretation of biblical stories runs afoul of basic geological observations—like that slab of rock on the wall near my office.

Even setting evolution aside, basic geology disproves creationism





Scientific American
The Origin of Oxygen in Earth's Atmosphere
The breathable air we enjoy today originated from tiny organisms, although the details remain lost in geologic time

"It's hard to keep oxygen molecules around, despite the fact that it's the third-most abundant element in the universe, forged in the superhot, superdense core of stars. That's because oxygen wants to react; it can form compounds with nearly every other element on the periodic table. So how did Earth end up with an atmosphere made up of roughly 21 percent of the stuff?

The answer is tiny organisms known as cyanobacteria, or blue-green algae. These microbes conductphotosynthesis: using sunshine, water and carbon dioxide to produce carbohydrates and, yes, oxygen. In fact, all the plants on Earth incorporate symbiotic cyanobacteria (known as chloroplasts) to do their photosynthesis for them down to this day.

For some untold eons prior to the evolution of these cyanobacteria, during the Archean eon, more primitive microbes lived the real old-fashioned way: anaerobically. These ancient organisms—and their "extremophile" descendants today—thrived in the absence of oxygen, relying on sulfate for their energy needs.

But roughly 2.45 billion years ago, the isotopic ratio of sulfur transformed, indicating that for the first time oxygen was becoming a significant component of Earth's atmosphere, according to a 2000 paper in Science. At roughly the same time (and for eons thereafter), oxidized iron began to appear in ancient soils and bands of iron were deposited on the seafloor, a product of reactions with oxygen in the seawater.

"What it looks like is that oxygen was first produced somewhere around 2.7 billion to 2.8 billon years ago. It took up residence in atmosphere around 2.45 billion years ago," says geochemist Dick Holland, a visiting scholar at the University of Pennsylvania. "It looks as if there's a significant time interval between the appearance of oxygen-producing organisms and the actual oxygenation of the atmosphere."

So a date and a culprit can be fixed for what scientists refer to as the Great Oxidation Event, but mysteries remain. What occurred 2.45 billion years ago that enabled cyanobacteria to take over? What were oxygen levels at that time? Why did it take another one billion years—dubbed the "boring billion" by scientists—for oxygen levels to rise high enoughto enable the evolution of animals?

The Origin of Oxygen in Earth's Atmosphere - Scientific American

The Earth is billions of years old and below the first flowers are evolving around 128 million years ago.

Flowers Modern & Ancient
Archaefructus liaoningensis would never have made the cover of Better Homes & Gardens. But this 125 million-year-old plant, discovered in fossil beds in northeastern China, did grace the cover of Science. It’s heralded as the earliest known angiosperm, or flowering plant. Here, explore what makes Archaefructus a flowering plant and how it compares to blooming beauties of today.

NOVA | Flowers Modern & Ancient


JayJayDee doesn't understand Nature nor wants too, ignoring God's work. How the Earth and solar system formed in the first place. For example, what the Van Allen belts have to do with all life on Earth in Earth's early history, Oxygen of the planet in the above information or how the moon formed, extinction events, micro and macro evolution, geology, DNA, RNA, Virsuses or any of science and sciences." They won't address those things at all, just all animals as 'Kinds." Which is archaic to the max.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Sapiens, shared this link on another thread, but some interesting points in it.


Even setting evolution aside, basic geology disproves creationism

"Early Christians read nature as well as the Bible

In researching my book
The Rocks Don't Lie: A Geologist Investigates Noah's Flood
, I looked into the history of thought about the biblical flood. What I found surprised me on two levels. First, most of the early workers who pioneered what we now call geology were clergy dedicated to reading God's other book—nature. Second, in pitting science against Christianity, today's young Earth creationists essentially ignore centuries of Christian theology.

"For the first thousand years of Christianity, the church considered literal interpretations of the stories in Genesis to be overly simplistic interpretations that missed deeper meaning. Influential thinkers like Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas held that what we could learn from studying the book of nature could not conflict with the Bible because they shared the same author. Yes, it seems that one of the oldest traditions in Christian thought holds that when reason contradicts favored interpretations of scripture about the natural world then those interpretations should be reconsidered.

I am not a YEC and I do not care what anyone claiming to be Christian said or wrote in the period after the canon was closed. There is a reason why we can reject most of the teachings of the church from those early centuries. Christ himself said that it would become corrupted, just like Judaism before it. This is what took place.

The book of nature does not contradict the Bible. Humans with their own ideas corrupted what the Bible taught and evolution is designed to corrupt Christians. You cannot merge the two into a compromised belief, hedging your bets whilst trying to retain credibility with your peers. Either there is a Creator who purposefully designed and made all that we see, or there isn't.

I believe the evidence speaks for an intelligent designer.


In keeping with this view, mainstream Christians reinterpreted the biblical stories of the creation and flood after geological discoveries revealed that Earth had a longer and more complicated history than would be inferred from a literal reading of Genesis. Perhaps, they concluded, the days in the week of creation corresponded to geological ages. Maybe Noah's flood was not global but a devastating Mesopotamian flood.

I do not subscribe to the teachings of mainstream "Christianity", which I believe is not Christianity at all. It is the weeds of Jesus parable, sown by God's enemy. Compromised Christianity is not what Jesus taught. Regardless of what the scientific community would have us believe...they are assuming that things occurred as they imagine.

Scientific American
The Origin of Oxygen in Earth's Atmosphere
The breathable air we enjoy today originated from tiny organisms, although the details remain lost in geologic time

"It's hard to keep oxygen molecules around,

Hard for whom? You image that the one who brought those molecules into existence has problems keeping them in existence? Really? o_O

despite the fact that it's the third-most abundant element in the universe, forged in the superhot, superdense core of stars. That's because oxygen wants to react; it can form compounds with nearly every other element on the periodic table. So how did Earth end up with an atmosphere made up of roughly 21 percent of the stuff?

Funny how there is only 21% of the stuff eh? Enough oxygen to keep living things alive and to light fires for warmth without blowing themselves up....just an accidental mixture of just the right gases. And the beneficial accidents just keep coming....:rolleyes:

The answer is tiny organisms known as cyanobacteria, or blue-green algae. These microbes conductphotosynthesis: using sunshine, water and carbon dioxide to produce carbohydrates and, yes, oxygen. In fact, all the plants on Earth incorporate symbiotic cyanobacteria (known as chloroplasts) to do their photosynthesis for them down to this day.

Yes, we have these organisms still in existence doing exactly that. Isn't photosynthesis another amazing accident? ;)

For some untold eons prior to the evolution of these cyanobacteria, during the Archean eon, more primitive microbes lived the real old-fashioned way: anaerobically. These ancient organisms—and their "extremophile" descendants today—thrived in the absence of oxygen, relying on sulfate for their energy needs.

Assumption. Now look at the next bit....this is classic.

"But roughly 2.45 billion years ago, the isotopic ratio of sulfur transformed, indicating that for the first time oxygen was becoming a significant component of Earth's atmosphere, according to a 2000 paper in Science. At roughly the same time (and for eons thereafter), oxidized iron began to appear in ancient soils and bands of iron were deposited on the seafloor, a product of reactions with oxygen in the seawater.

"What it looks like is that oxygen was first produced somewhere around 2.7 billion to 2.8 billon years ago. It took up residence in atmosphere around 2.45 billion years ago," says geochemist Dick Holland, a visiting scholar at the University of Pennsylvania. "It looks as if there's a significant time interval between the appearance of oxygen-producing organisms and the actual oxygenation of the atmosphere."

So a date and a culprit can be fixed for what scientists refer to as the Great Oxidation Event, but mysteries remain
. What occurred 2.45 billion years ago that enabled cyanobacteria to take over? What were oxygen levels at that time? Why did it take another one billion years—dubbed the "boring billion" by scientists—for oxygen levels to rise high enough to enable the evolution of animals?"

Of course it did.....:confused: Those "boring billions" of years were just another accident in the saga of evolution. How opportunistic of nature to do that.

Just read what is written. "What it looks like" is hardly a statement of scientific fact. You cannot be serious!

The Earth is billions of years old and below the first flowers are evolving around 128 million years ago.

The Bible does not argue with an ancient earth. And seeing as how vegetation was first to appear, we have no problem with them being ancient as well.

Flowers Modern & Ancient
Archaefructus liaoningensis would never have made the cover of Better Homes & Gardens. But this 125 million-year-old plant, discovered in fossil beds in northeastern China, did grace the cover of Science. It’s heralded as the earliest known angiosperm, or flowering plant. Here, explore what makes Archaefructus a flowering plant and how it compares to blooming beauties of today.

NOVA | Flowers Modern & Ancient

There are many animals (microscopic and otherwise) that would never make it to the cover of National Geographic for the most beautiful or significant either. That doesn't mean that beautiful and significant animals don't co-exist with the less spectacular ones.

There are still very insignificant flowers growing in every part of the earth at this moment...so what?

JayJayDee doesn't understand Nature nor wants too, ignoring God's work.

Of course it always boils back down to my lack of education. What if your education is way off.....how would you know?
You all blindly accept what you are told...the very thing you accuse us of doing.

How the Earth and solar system formed in the first place. For example, what the Van Allen belts have to do with all life on Earth in Earth's early history, Oxygen of the planet in the above information or how the moon formed, extinction events, micro and macro evolution, geology, DNA, RNA, Virsuses or any of science and sciences." They won't address those things at all, just all animals as 'Kinds." Which is archaic to the max.

God doesn't tell us how he did things.....but it doesn't mean that he didn't do them....just that we don't have the details. The Bible wasn't written for scientists...it was written for ordinary people.

What science "discovers" is merely educated assumptions about some details of creation. Sometimes they get it right...but sometimes they get it horribly wrong. That is what happens when you depend on guesswork. Tomorrow's findings may well undo the whole thing.

I am still waiting for an answer to my previous questions.....any evolutionists want to take a stab at them? :D
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
I am not a YEC and I do not care what anyone claiming to be Christian said or wrote in the period after the canon was closed. There is a reason why we can reject most of the teachings of the church from those early centuries. Christ himself said that it would become corrupted, just like Judaism before it. This is what took place.
You're a YEC.
The book of nature does not contradict the Bible
Nature doesn't have a book but nature contradicts the Bible at almost every turn.
. Humans with their own ideas corrupted what the Bible taught and evolution is designed to corrupt Christians.
No, evolution is designed to provide a reasonable and predictable explanation for observed phenomena, and succeeds at that task. I leave corruption to the religionists of all stripes,with YECs leading the parade.
You cannot merge the two into a compromised belief, hedging your bets whilst trying to retain credibility with your peers. Either there is a Creator who purposefully designed and made all that we see, or there isn't.
There is not.
I believe the evidence speaks for an intelligent designer.
That is because you have spent you life reading a book that is so full of errors that you are now a walking, talking, error yourself.
 

newone

Member
The "book" is not proof of the designer! The design is proof of a desingner who must be VERY intelligent. The book just gives us details about Him...
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
You're a YEC.

So I need you to tell me what I believe.....what incredible arrogance.

Nature doesn't have a book but nature contradicts the Bible at almost every turn.

Nature can be read like a book by those who aren't blind. The existence of a Creator contradicts what scientists assume about nature. You have no facts...you have educated guesses....what someone "thinks" the evidence "looks like".... I showed them to you in my previous post. Your foundation has huge cracks and missing chunks, yet you still assert that it is fact...that is dishonest. You have no more "proof" for what you believe than I do.

No, evolution is designed to provide a reasonable and predictable explanation for observed phenomena, and succeeds at that task.

It succeeds only with those who believe what the scientists assume. You are free to believe whatever you like...just don't call it fact when it isn't fact at all. It is a belief....just like mine.

I leave corruption to the religionists of all stripes,with YECs leading the parade.

I am not a proponent of a young earth. The Bible allows for the earth itself to be very ancient.


That is because you have spent you life reading a book that is so full of errors that you are now a walking, talking, error yourself.

Care to take a stab at the questions I posed (post#35) instead of hurling your meaningless insults? C'mon...someone as educated as you should be able to answer them without hesitation.
 
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