Any questions?

[.lava]

i could not read everything in original post either. yet still curious..

what does panen mean?

 

[Storm]

i could not read everything in original post either. yet still curious..

what does panen mean?

All within.

 

[.lava]

All within.

i like 'all within' and i pictured you 'dark poetic'. just for now.
yes, i am the judge at this single moment

which language would that be? Panen??

you know, before i became religious person, once i meditated with a guy from Holland. i was already meditating but i was not into mantras. he gave me one. our meditation ended in ten minutes, when i heard a voice telling me this:

'don't try to open the door, it opens itself'

that was poetic too. well, i am telling it because i just remembered, so just to share if you don't mind.

 

[Magic Man]

Ok, first question right off the bat is: How are elders individual rhys? I thought rhys was by nature not individualistic. That's a little superficial, and I'll try to formulate other deeper questions in time.

 

[Storm]

Ok, first question right off the bat is: How are elders individual rhys? I thought rhys was by nature not individualistic. That's a little superficial, and I'll try to formulate other deeper questions in time.

Oh, you started with a tough one.

I'm not sure whether or not rhys is individualistic, and if it's not, what then are the Elders?

Take my rhys for example. I am an aspect of humanity, which is an aspect of the World Mother, who is an aspect of God. It's all very fractal. So at what point in that progression does an aspect become whole unto itself?

Perhaps the answer can be found when we look at the patterns of matter. matter arranges itself into clusters, amassing more and more matter. Particles become atoms become molecules become objects. Perhaps the rhys follows a similar pattern of arranging itself into clusters. Yet the purpose of rhys is not form, it is awareness. When is a cluster of rhys complex enough to be aware of itself as an aspect? Does that awareness individuate the rhys permanently, or only until the form to which it is bound dissolves? For all individuated forms dissolve, eventually. Is the rhys also subject to the forces of entropy?

I don't have the answer, but I thank you for the new questions.

 

[Magic Man]

Oh, you started with a tough one.

I'm not sure whether or not rhys is individualistic, and if it's not, what then are the Elders?

Take my rhys for example. I am an aspect of humanity, which is an aspect of the World Mother, who is an aspect of God. It's all very fractal. So at what point in that progression does an aspect become whole unto itself?

Perhaps the answer can be found when we look at the patterns of matter. matter arranges itself into clusters, amassing more and more matter. Particles become atoms become molecules become objects. Perhaps the rhys follows a similar pattern of arranging itself into clusters. Yet the purpose of rhys is not form, it is awareness. When is a cluster of rhys complex enough to be aware of itself as an aspect? Does that awareness individuate the rhys permanently, or only until the form to which it is bound dissolves? For all individuated forms dissolve, eventually. Is the rhys also subject to the forces of entropy?

I don't have the answer, but I thank you for the new questions.

You don't have the answer!?

I think this is the key. From what else you've said, when our "life" ends, all that is left is rhys and matter, but not the glue that gives them true self-awareness. That leads me to believe that the rhys, in and of itself, can't be self-aware, that it needs some other component to achieve that.

Also, this leads me to the question of whether or not the universe, or this roth, is individuated. If so, the it would dissolve eventually. If not, what is it?

 

[Storm]

You don't have the answer!?

I think this is the key. From what else you've said, when our "life" ends, all that is left is rhys and matter, but not the glue that gives them true self-awareness. That leads me to believe that the rhys, in and of itself, can't be self-aware, that it needs some other component to achieve that.

Hmm. No, rhys is awareness. My personality is shaped as muchby my brain as by rhys, but it is not the awareness itself. Rhys is. That's what rhys is.

Also, this leads me to the question of whether or not the universe, or this roth, is individuated. If so, the it would dissolve eventually. If not, what is it?

Roth is the foundation from which we are individuated. It is the source and sum of all matter, rhys, and arn. I don't think it's subject to indviduation.

As I reflect upon your original question, I find myself returning, over and over again to two things. The first is one of my favorite chants, picked up during my neopagan days:
We all come from the Goddess
And to Her, we shall return
Like a drop of rain
Flowing to the ocean

Upon returning to the ocean, does the drop cease to be a drop? For me the answer is no, and that is individuation. Roth is not merely the ocean, but all water. No matter how many individuations occur, roth encompasses them all, and indeed is defined by them.

 

[Magic Man]

Hmm. No, rhys is awareness. My personality is shaped as muchby my brain as by rhys, but it is not the awareness itself. Rhys is. That's what rhys is.

So, why are we necessary? If rhys is awareness, and can get a sense of itself on its own, then what does it need us for?

Edit: I think that a drop of water does cease to be a drop once it goes back into the ocean.

 

[Storm]

So, why are we necessary? If rhys is awareness, and can get a sense of itself on its own, then what does it need us for?

Experience. Without us, it cannot change. Without change, it cannot grow. Rhys is awareness itself, and without us it has nothing to be aware of.

Edit: I think that a drop of water does cease to be a drop once it goes back into the ocean.

What is the ocean, then, if not countless individual drops? Is a current individual?

 

[Magic Man]

Experience. Without us, it cannot change. Without change, it cannot grow. Rhys is awareness itself, and without us it has nothing to be aware of.


What is the ocean, then, if not countless individual drops? Is a current individual?

So, what is the growth towards? I know you say maturity, but what does it mean for a roth to be mature?

It is countless individual drops, but when they are together they cease to be drops and become an ocean. By current, do you mean a wave?

 

[Storm]

So, what is the growth towards? I know you say maturity, but what does it mean for a roth to be mature?

I don't know, but I'm very excited to find out.

I have several speculations, but no more than that. In the end, all my beliefs are base on my theophany. That only showed me (debateably at that) what is, not what will be.

EDIT: I will say this much. What maturity for this roth will look like can't be known, becuase part of our purpose as individuated aspects is to explore the options for the One to decide what it wants to be.

It is countless individual drops, but when they are together they cease to be drops and become an ocean.

Exactly. Reflect on that a bit.

By current, do you mean a wave?

No, I mean a current.

 

[Magic Man]

I don't know, but I'm very excited to find out.

I have several speculations, but no more than that. In the end, all my beliefs are base on my theophany. That only showed me (debateably at that) what is, not what will be.


Exactly. Reflect on that a bit.


No, I mean a current.

What is that reflection supposed to teach me?

Then what do you mean by current?

 

[Storm]

What is that reflection supposed to teach me?

If I could tell you outright, I would have. I suggested that you reflect on it to help you see from my perspective. What you take from that is up to you.

Then what do you mean by current?

Like the North Atlantic current. Some water moving differently than the rest.

Also, I edited the post at the top of this page while you were responding, you might want to have another look.

 

[Magic Man]

If I could tell you outright, I would have. I suggested that you reflect on it to help you see from my perspective. What you take from that is up to you.

Like the North Atlantic current. Some water moving differently than the rest.

Also, I edited the post at the top of this page while you were responding, you might want to have another look.

I just mean that I know what my comment about the ocean meant, and I don't feel like reflecting will give me any new insight. I think the insight went into formulating the comment in the first place.

Then, no I don't think current is indivual.

 

[.lava]

how many people are there in your life who understand your religion with your own terms?

what happens when you have conversation with someone here? do the terms he use enter your mind with different clothes?

 

[Storm]

how many people are there in your life who understand your religion with your own terms?

None, unfortunately. The people I know irl aren't really interested in theology.

what happens when you have conversation with someone here? do the terms he use enter your mind with different clothes?

No, I understand their terminology. If I don't, I ask for clarification.

 

[Magic Man]

Morning, Love. I will start with this: It seems to me that at this point, you fully believe in the concepts put forth here. It seems that, at this point, any questions that are brought up can be made to fit your existing beliefs. It's like a quote I heard recently. I can't remember the actual quote, but it was basically that someone who believes in a religion can make their life conform to the religion.

I wonder whether, at this point, I can ask a question that you can't explain with what you already have set.

For instance, I don't see God in creation, and no argument I find at this point is going to change that. The only thing that could change my mind is an experience akin to yours.

 

[Storm]

Morning, Love. I will start with this: It seems to me that at this point, you fully believe in the concepts put forth here.

Not really. This is my best guess at the moment. Various concepts have various levels of belief. Some, Big Mama for instance, are little more than speculation. Others, like roth as the nature of God, are stronger. I have only two unwavering beliefs: 1) God exists, and (2) None of us understand it, myself included. All else is guesswork, and subject to change.

It seems that, at this point, any questions that are brought up can be made to fit your existing beliefs. It's like a quote I heard recently. I can't remember the actual quote, but it was basically that someone who believes in a religion can make their life conform to the religion.

Probably, but the point of this exercise is to encourage me to grow. For me at least. If you can find a flaw in my thinking, I'll be delighted. I know they're there, but I can't see them anymore.

I wonder whether, at this point, I can ask a question that you can't explain with what you already have set.

But, you already have....

For instance, I don't see God in creation, and no argument I find at this point is going to change that. The only thing that could change my mind is an experience akin to yours.

Yes, so what? I don't know how to take this part of your post. It sounds like you were hoping to deconvert me, but I don't believe that.

I'm enjoying myself. I hope you are too. If you're not, we can stop, but I personally would rather continue.

 

[Magic Man]

Not really. This is my best guess at the moment. Various concepts have various levels of belief. Some, Big Mama for instance, are little more than speculation. Others, like roth as the nature of God, are stronger. I have only two unwavering beliefs: 1) God exists, and (2) None of us understand it, myself included. All else is guesswork, and subject to change.


Probably, but the point of this exercise is to encourage me to grow. For me at least. If you can find a flaw in my thinking, I'll be delighted. I know they're there, but I can't see them anymore.


But, you already have....


Yes, so what? I don't know how to take this part of your post. It sounds like you were hoping to deconvert me, but I don't believe that.

I'm enjoying myself. I hope you are too. If you're not, we can stop, but I personally would rather continue.

No, no, I'm not trying to "deconvert" you, and I'm having fun. All I'm saying is that humans, when they start with an assumption, can make every other experience fit that assumption. It's like when you talk to a Christian, and bring up things like the problem of evil, they always have a response that keeps with their faith, even if it makes no logical sense.

I can't challenge your core belief that God exists, because you've had an experience which cannot be denied, or at least you've already made it clear that you refute any rational explanation of the experience. That's fine, but it makes it impossible to challenge that belief in a way that you haven't already thought of and shot down.

The other belief is that we don't understand it. I can't argue with that either, but I think we have to ultimately throw that out in order to discuss your "understanding" of it.

Here's a question: Would you say that rhys is the psyche of the roth?

EDIT: And, I definitely don't want to stop this, it's too much fun. I love dicussing things with you.

 

[Storm]

No, no, I'm not trying to "deconvert" you, and I'm having fun. All I'm saying is that humans, when they start with an assumption, can make every other experience fit that assumption. It's like when you talk to a Christian, and bring up things like the problem of evil, they always have a response that keeps with their faith, even if it makes no logical sense.

Well, if you find something that makes no logical sense, tell me. As I told lava, it's not enough to believe. The theology has to be coherent.

I can't challenge your core belief that God exists, because you've had an experience which cannot be denied, or at least you've already made it clear that you refute any rational explanation of the experience. That's fine, but it makes it impossible to challenge that belief in a way that you haven't already thought of and shot down.

No, you can't. Everything else is fair game, however. So long as we both understand this, we'll have ourselves a grand old time.

The other belief is that we don't understand it. I can't argue with that either, but I think we have to ultimately throw that out in order to discuss your "understanding" of it.

It's relevant for one reason: it makes me welcome challenges.

Here's a question: Would you say that rhys is the psyche of the roth?

hmmm... No. "Psyche" is too limited in defintition, it refers to a specific aspect of sapient biological life. Rhys is awareness, not hormones.

EDIT: And, I definitely don't want to stop this, it's too much fun. I love dicussing things with you.