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Any Religious or Spiritual Atheists?

spiritually inclined

Active Member
I am an atheist with spiritual inclinations. I've always had them. However, I'm not quite sure where I'm going on my path as far as religion is concerned. I would like to learn about and experience more that is out there.

If there are any religious/spiritual atheists/agnostics here, I would like your take on where you are on your paths.

As for me, I'm interested in secular ritual and have developed my own. It's as simple as adding a symbolic meaning to something like showering, or, if you want, it can be more elaborate.

I'm also interested in philosophy and very concerned with morals and treating others with kindness. (I believe that morals are built-in to human nature and enhance our lives.) I am interested in possibly finding a religious community eventually, but I'm not sure. I'm very reluctant after my experience of Pentecostalism.

Any insight into religious naturalism or other religious atheistic paths would be very appreciated.

Thanks,
James
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
I generally consider myself a philsophical agnostic and a non-theist, though very interested in matters of "spirit."

From my perspective, genuine spirituality occurs in the absence of all superstition.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
doppelgänger;862197 said:
I generally consider myself a philsophical agnostic and a non-theist, though very interested in matters of "spirit."

From my perspective, genuine spirituality occurs in the absence of all superstition.
Can you expound on that? I'm guessing Sam Harris would have clarified this for me, but as I have lost the book and only got to chapter 3, can you explain please...:)
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Can you expound on that? I'm guessing Sam Harris would have clarified this for me, but as I have lost the book and only got to chapter 3, can you explain please...:)

Nope. Well, I can. But I'm not going to. I leave it to your imagination. :)
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
I got your PM Victor. I misread your tone as being a snide comment directed at Sam Harris. My apologies.

I'm not sure how this would relate to Sam Harris. I'm not particularly a Sam Harris fan and only read one of his books a couple of years ago. For other writers who I think take a similar approach to mine: Spinoza, Nietzsche, Joseph Campbell, Paul Tillich, the later works of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Constantin Brunner, Carl Jung, Albert Einstein, and many others.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
doppelgänger;862218 said:
I got your PM Victor. I misread your tone as being a snide comment directed at Sam Harris. My apologies.

I'm not sure how this would relate to Sam Harris. I'm not particularly a Sam Harris fan and only read one of his books a couple of years ago. For other writers who I think take a similar approach to mine: Spinoza, Nietzsche, Joseph Campbell, Paul Tillich, the later works of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Constantin Brunner, Carl Jung, Albert Einstein, and many others.

Joseph Campbell, I remember watching a short video of him in philosophy class. Any book of his that you recommend?

As a clarification I was wanting you to expound on how getting rid of superstitions makes such a thing as spirituality more genuine?
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Joseph Campbell, I remember watching a short video of him in philosophy class. Any book of his that you recommend?

As a clarification I was wanting you to expound on how getting rid of superstitions makes such a thing as spirituality more genuine?

For Joseph Campbell I recommend Pathways To Bliss, Thou Art That, Creative Mythology, and Hero with a thousand faces.

For me, getting rid of superstition requires me to genuinely enter into and understand the meanings of mythological texts for myself so that it becomes immediate, immanent and real to me rather than a story I just "believe" in. Does that help? It's much like the great Blind Seer tells us:

When you believe in things
That you don't understand,
Then you suffer!
Superstition ain't the way.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
doppelgänger;862227 said:
For Joseph Campbell I recommend Pathways To Bliss, Thou Art That, Creative Mythology, and Hero with a thousand faces.
Gracias...
doppelgänger;862227 said:
For me, getting rid of superstition requires me to genuinely enter into and understand the meanings of mythological texts for myself so that it becomes immediate, immanent and real to me rather than a story I just "believe" in. Does that help? It's much like the great Blind Seer tells us:

When you believe in things
That you don't understand,
Then you suffer!
Superstition ain't the way.
I'm not sure how this get's rid of superstition. People seeking to understand on their own is nothing new, so I can only assume you mean something else.
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Gracias...

I'm not sure how this get's rid of superstition. People seeking to understand on their own is nothing new, so I can only assume you mean something else.

This isn't something I can walk you through in a few posts. But it's what mythology reveals to me when I understand it that matters. And it has to do with an awareness of the role of superstition in forming delusional and erroneous thought and identity.

For example, here's Nietzsche's description of it from "Book III" of Will to Power:

"There is thinking: therefore there is something that thinks": this is the upshot of all Descartes' argumentation. But that means positing as "true à priori" our belief in the concept of substance-- that when there is thought there has to be something "that thinks" is simply a formulation of our grammatical custom that adds a doer to every deed. In short, this is not merely the substantiation of a fact but a logical-metaphysical postulate--Along the lines followed by Descartes one does not come upon something absolutely certain but only upon the fact of a very strong belief.
If one reduces the proposition to "There is thinking, therefore there are thoughts," one has produced a mere tautology: and precisely that which is in question, the "reality of thought," is not touched upon--that is, in this form the "apparent reality" of thought cannot be denied. But what Descartes desired was that thought should have, not an apparent reality, but a reality in itself. The concept of substance is a consequence of the concept of the subject: not the reverse! If we relinquish the soul, "the subject," the precondition for "substance" in general disappears.
One acquires degrees of being, one loses that which has being . . . The degree to which we feel life and power (logic and coherence of experience) gives us our measure of "being", "reality", not appearance.
The subject: this is the term for our belief in a unity underlying all the different impulses of the highest feeling of reality: we understand this belief as the effect of one cause--we believe so firmly in our belief that for its sake we imagine "truth", "reality", substantiality in general.-- "The subject" is the fiction that many similar states in us are the effect of one substratum: but it is we who first created the "similarity" of these states; our adjusting them and making them similar is the fact, not their similarity (--which ought rather to be denied--).
One would have to know what being is, in order to decide whether this or that is real (e. g., "the facts of consciousness"); in the same way, what certainty is, what knowledge is, and the like.-- But since we do not know this, a critique of the faculty of knowledge is senseless: how should a tool be able to criticize itself when it can use only itself for the critique? It cannot even define itself!
Must all philosophy not ultimately bring to light the preconditions upon which the process of reason depends?--our belief in the "ego" as a substance, as the sole reality from which we ascribe reality to things in general?
The oldest "realism" at last comes to light: at the same time that the entire religious history of mankind is recognized as the history of the soul superstition. Here we come to a limit: our thinking itself involves this belief (with its distinction of substance, accident; deed, doer, etc.); to let it go means: being no longer able to think. But that a belief, however necessary it may be for the preservation of a species, has nothing to do with truth, one knows from the fact that, e. g., we have to believe in time, space, and motion, without feeling compelled to grant them absolute reality.
Or as Constantin Brunner explains it in Our Christ: The Revolt of the Mystical Genius:
A God ideated as an object outside ourselves remains but a thing-spectre, however indefinite and tenuous we may imagine its thingliness, and we must leave within ourselves, only and solely there within ourselves, what can be found only and solely within and nowhere outside. The popular duplication of speech, in which the 'within' is re-stated as 'without' (the fictitiously absolute), is a consequence of the popular inability to imagine the Cogitant [the Absolute or Unity, the "Spirit"] in us as anything but an external ideatum, with the result that in the end the total aggregate of ideate, i.e., the world, is thought doubly, and every event in the world, is given its double in the person of the fictitiously absolute maker of events. Thus we hear popular thought (or rather, lack of thought), instead of grasping the One, always droning on about an incomprehensible Two - man doing nothing but what, ultimately, God does: we provide our food, but God grants us it. We lie down and sleep, and God grants us sleep. God grants us a happy day. And when someone performs foolish ceremonies at particular times of the day and year - it is God who grants him this piety. Man looks after his life as well as he can, and God takes care of him . . . it is God who gives him all these things . . . he gives cattle to the rich and children to the poor (and breeches for them). God gives and God takes away and, always, for our own good . . . we owe all things to God and our industriousness; we owe this victory to God and the bravery of our soldiers - and naturally our soldiers are the bravest and our cause is just one, which is why God helped us and not our enemies . . .
This double-talk is pernicious; it is disastrous for anyone who seeks to understand, for he who tries to get a hold of two things will fail to grasp one . . .


Directly within ourselves we seize upon the reality, indubitably real reality of absolute existence as the Cogitant, and thus are saved from all the discord, distress and disease of the ideatum. For the Cogitant within us does not and cannot fall sick with superstition; superstition is the malady of the ideatum, it is absolutized relativity.
And for an explanation in my own words:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=847128&postcount=3
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50940
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Thanks Dopp...I was hoping for a shorter version but I guess such a request is difficult given what it involves. I'll save this.
 

Kungfuzed

Student Nurse
I am an atheist with spiritual inclinations. I've always had them. However, I'm not quite sure where I'm going on my path as far as religion is concerned. I would like to learn about and experience more that is out there.

If there are any religious/spiritual atheists/agnostics here, I would like your take on where you are on your paths.

As for me, I'm interested in secular ritual and have developed my own. It's as simple as adding a symbolic meaning to something like showering, or, if you want, it can be more elaborate.

I'm also interested in philosophy and very concerned with morals and treating others with kindness. (I believe that morals are built-in to human nature and enhance our lives.) I am interested in possibly finding a religious community eventually, but I'm not sure. I'm very reluctant after my experience of Pentecostalism.

Any insight into religious naturalism or other religious atheistic paths would be very appreciated.

Thanks,
James
What do you get out of ritual? I don't want to know what you do in the shower :cover: but what kind of symbolism do you use? I'm finding I feel more spiritual when I am closer to nature, not all the time, but lately the weather has been nice and on my way home from work at night I can see the backbone of night and ponder the pale blue dot that we are (yes, I've been watching episodes of Cosmos lately). In the warm summer breeze I close my eyes and imagine I'm a speck of dust floating in a ray of sunlight. Nature can be very beautiful and is full of spiritual experiences. It can also be quite miserable in the winter, but that's also part of the circle of life. I seek experiences and education. I haven't found any ritual that is meaningful for me.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
I am an atheist with spiritual inclinations. I've always had them. However, I'm not quite sure where I'm going on my path as far as religion is concerned. I would like to learn about and experience more that is out there.

If there are any religious/spiritual atheists/agnostics here, I would like your take on where you are on your paths.

As for me, I'm interested in secular ritual and have developed my own. It's as simple as adding a symbolic meaning to something like showering, or, if you want, it can be more elaborate.

I'm also interested in philosophy and very concerned with morals and treating others with kindness. (I believe that morals are built-in to human nature and enhance our lives.) I am interested in possibly finding a religious community eventually, but I'm not sure. I'm very reluctant after my experience of Pentecostalism.

Any insight into religious naturalism or other religious atheistic paths would be very appreciated.

Thanks,
James

I am a Pantheist, which could be considered a form of atheism (Richard Dawkins called it sexed up atheism). But if it is a form of atheism it is a form that embraces oneness, connectedness and unity, as well as encouraging us to see past the illusion of our own egos. These for me are “spiritual” concepts if I am allowed to use that word.

Personally I am not much into ritual, but if the help people to keep some “spiritual” concepts in mind then they have a good place. What specifically are your “spiritual” beliefs? How do you define the word “spiritual”? What kind of mind-frame do you wish to reinforce with ritual activity? I think this is where you need to start.

But don’t let the ritual isolate your spirituality. I understand that we need to find a time and a place to consider things of a spiritual nature and a ritual can be a helpful way of focusing the mind. But I also believe that all things can be considered spiritual, all things, all times and all places. For me that is the spiritual mind frame I try to maintain. (easier said than done btw)


p.s. welcome to the board.
 

eudaimonia

Fellowship of Reason
I am an atheist with spiritual inclinations.

I also regard myself as a "spiritual" atheist, by which I largely mean that I think that life can be very meaningful and fulfilling, and strive for this myself.

One avenue for this that I have found is the Fellowship of Reason, where one can find fellowship with likeminded people, and where personal accomplishments and significant values and life events are honored and celebrated.

I also like to look at art that upholds an "uplifting" view of life, such as the Romantic Realist art that may be found at the Quent Cordair art store.

Another tool I use is to keep a kind of "to-do list" notebook that also involves focusing on long-term goals and pondering one's progress towards them. Thinking about one's major "missions" in life can help to make life meaningful.

Lastly, I perform rituals such as signing my posts with "eudaimonia", which is a Greek word that means, roughly, happiness. It's a way of showing benevolence and respect for others.

eudaimonia,

Mark
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
doppelgänger;862218 said:
I got your PM Victor. I misread your tone as being a snide comment directed at Sam Harris. My apologies.

I'm not sure how this would relate to Sam Harris. I'm not particularly a Sam Harris fan and only read one of his books a couple of years ago. For other writers who I think take a similar approach to mine: Spinoza, Nietzsche, Joseph Campbell, Paul Tillich, the later works of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Constantin Brunner, Carl Jung, Albert Einstein, and many others.

Albert Switzer would be a good read I think. He's influenced by many of the folks on your list, especially Nietzche and Jung. I had to read several of Nietzsche's works to understand Switzer, and N's genius eclipses S by a longshot. However, Switzer's marriage of Christianity and atheism are very interesting.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Like Dopp, I would consider myself a philosophical agnostic, though I have more theistic leanings, I think.

I believe that spirituality is holistic; it envelops all my knowledge and being. Imagination is part of it just as much as logic. As such, I am not bound by science any more than I am religion. Instead, I am freed by the tools of imagination and logic.

I practice magick in a folky, chaotic way. I understand the power of symbols and I use them to my advantage (or the advantage of others. Where's the line for that distinction?).

God for me is a symbol. It is a powerful symbol both on the individual and social level. But, the power isn't intrinsic in the symbol. The source of Its power is in me. I am agnostic, though, in that I am open to the possibility that there may be an objective God.
 

kidkunjer

New Member
I am an agnostic, because i am a Vatist. Vatism is a religion/philosophy that rejects belief, as "the more you believe, the less you perceive". We don't believe there is a god, we don't believe there isn't. You name it, we don't believe it.
Its a deeply spiritual path with a form of enlightenment at the end, similar in some ways to shamanism and in others to taoism.
So technically yes i'm a spiritual Atheist.
 
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