Anyone to guide?

[Aupmanyav]

"Āsurīm yonim āpannā, mūḍhā janmani janmani;
mām aprāpyaiva Kaunteya, tato yānty adhamām gatim." BG 16.20

(Attaining repeated birth among the species of demoniac life, O son of Kuntī, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence.)

"Rājovacha: naraka nāma bhagavan kim desa-visesa athava bahis tri-lokya ahosvid antarāla iti?" (http://vedabase.net/sb/5/26/4/en2)

(King Parik**** inquired from Sukadeva Gosvami: My dear lord, are the hellish regions outside the universe, within the covering of the universe, or in different places on this planet?)

Actually, Wikipedia lists 44 kinds of hells in Hinduism, one for each kind of transgression from 'dharma'. Check at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Hinduism)#Description_of_hells

I too do not believe in hell or hells, not even in heavens, but that is another story.

 

[Maya3]

"Āsurīm yonim āpannā, mūḍhā janmani janmani;
mām aprāpyaiva Kaunteya, tato yānty adhamām gatim." BG 16.20

(Attaining repeated birth among the species of demoniac life, O son of Kuntī, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence.)

"Rājovacha: naraka nāma bhagavan kim desa-visesa athava bahis tri-lokya ahosvid antarāla iti?" (Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 5 Chapter 26 Verse 4)

(King Parik**** inquired from Sukadeva Gosvami: My dear lord, are the hellish regions outside the universe, within the covering of the universe, or in different places on this planet?)

Actually, Wikipedia lists 44 kinds of hells in Hinduism, one for each kind of degression from 'dharma'. Check at Naraka (Hinduism) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I too do not believe in hell or hells, not even in heavens, but that is another story.

Still don't believe it.
And personally I believe that the first verse refers to Adharmic people and situations on earth, not actual demons.

Maya

 

[Vinayaka]

Still don't believe it.
And personally I believe that the first verse refers to Adharmic people and situations on earth, not actual demons.

Maya

Consider the source, both in the scriptures quoted (Manu Smrti) and in the person quoting. OTOH, each is entitled to their POV.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Still don't believe it. And personally I believe that the first verse refers to Adharmic people and situations on earth, not actual demons.

Of course, believing or not believing is a person's prerogative. 'Adhogatim' means being sent down, that is where 'narakas' are supposed to be. I thought one verse would suffice. Here is the next giving the exact location (can be checked with Hubble telescope):

Rsih uvacha: "Antarantarala eva tri-jagatyas tu disi daksinasyam adhastad bhumer uparistac cha jalad yasyam agnisvattadayah pitr-gana disi svanam gotranam paramena samadhina satya evasisa asasana nivasanti"

(The great sage Sukadeva Gosvami answered: All the hellish planets are situated in the intermediate space between the three worlds and the Garbhodaka Ocean. They lie on the southern side of the universe, beneath Bhu-mandala, and slightly above the water of the Garbhodaka Ocean. Pitrloka is also located in this region between the Garbhodaka Ocean and the lower planetary systems. All the residents of Pitrloka, headed by Agnisvatta, meditate in great samadhi on the Supreme Personality of Godhead and always wish their families well.)
Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 5 Chapter 26 Verse 5

"Tatra haike narakan eka-vimsatim ganayanti atha tams te rajan nama-rupa-laksanato 'nukramisyamas tamisro 'ndhatamisro rauravo maharauravah kumbhipakah kalasutram asipatravanam sukaramukham andhakupah krmibhojanah sandamsas taptasurmir vajrakantaka-salmali vaitarani puyodah pranarodho visasanam lalabhaksah sarameyadanam avicir ayahpanam iti; kinca ksarakardamo raksogana-bhojanah sulaproto dandasuko 'vata-nirodhanah paryavartanah sucimukham ity asta-vimsatir naraka vividha-yatana-bhumayah"

(Some authorities say that there is a total of twenty-one hellish planets, and some say twenty-eight. My dear King, I shall outline all of them according to their names, forms and symptoms. The names of the different hells are as follows: Tamisra, Andhatamisra, Raurava, Maharaurava, Kumbhipaka, Kalasutra, Asi-patravana, Sukaramukha, Andhakupa, Krmibhojana, Sandamsa, Taptasurmi, Vajrakantaka-salmali, Vaitarani, Puyoda, Pranarodha, Visasana, Lalabhaksa, Sarameyadana, Avici, Ayahpana, Ksarakardama, Raksogana-bhojana, Sulaprota, Dandasuka, Avata-nirodhana, Paryavartana and Sucimukha. All these planets are meant for punishing the living entities.)
http://vedabase.net/sb/5/26/7/en2

 

[Aupmanyav]

Consider the source, both in the scriptures quoted (Manu Smrti) and in the person quoting. OTOH, each is entitled to their POV.

Vinayaka, it is from SrimadBhagawat Purana. Of course, views differ.

 

[Poeticus]

Vinayaka, it is from SrimadBhagawat Purana. Of course, views differ.

He already knows
where the quote is
from, Aup. Thus, his
message to Maya...​

 

[zenzero]

Friend willy1590,

I was wondering if anyone would be willing to guide me into what Hinduism is all about,preferably from an actual Hindu .

Personally am not sure if am qualified for the job; however am sure friends here will pardon me if have crossed any known limits restricted strictly to this section.

The word 'Hinduism' [probably] stared being used since the time Alexander the great crossed the river 'sindu' to conquer the territories here and since he could not prnounce the word 'sindu' with a 's' it came out of his mouth as being pronounced with an 'h' which is 'hindu'.
Prior to that there was no particular 'religion' as such. There used to be a culture which was termed 'sanatan dharma' which means 'sanatan' or having no beginning or end and 'dharma' or a way of life.
Now here the way of life is not restricted to any particular way; it is open ended which means this culture allows each individual to live life as per his own way but reminds everyone of 'dharma'.
then what is 'dharma'?
It is whatever way an individual takes to be free to be in oneness with THAT original state of being to be in one with the universal consciousness/energy/God etc.
The moot point is to be conscious which the society then allowed individual freedom.
In effect this meant that your way of conscious life be that of an atheist, chistian, muslim, buddhists, jins, sikhs, etc. etc. etc. Still one is a follower of that culture termed 'sanatan dharma'. That is what 'sanatan dharma' is.

slowly over time and specially after Alexander's visit, the word 'hindu' has taken over and so has the understanding of most people from this culture of 'snatan dharma' to take oneself to be part of a path which is distinct from others though as explained above that by definition every path is part of 'sanatan dharma'.

Taking the present day view dharma as followed by most in this region still find that openness about 'paths' remain. i.e. friend willy1590 could still be a hindu by following a way of life that suits his style and all he needs is to bring 'consciousness' in every moment and be free of the thoughts/mind/state that so far has kept him attached to.

Friend willy1590 under the given circumstances it would be much beneficial if you would share the path that suits you to point out where you the gap lies between your present state and original state.

Love & rgds

n.b. once again ask forgiveness from others if have deviated even though belong to this culture and also if the moderators feel the post may be deleted as per traditions of the forum. The choice is left open.

 

[Vinayaka]

Personally am not sure if am qualified for the job; however am sure friends here will pardon me if have crossed any known limits restricted strictly to this section.

n.b. once again ask forgiveness from others if have deviated even though belong to this culture and also if the moderators feel the post may be deleted as per traditions of the forum. The choice is left open.

We have changed to a Blue DIR, by a vote. If you read the rules of the Blue DIRs, it should help. Of course that can always be avoided easily by opening a new topic in another section of this vast forum, like 'comparative' etc. Still it's a self-reflective idea, up to the individuals to decide if they identify with the religion of any particular DIR. For those that identify with several DIRs simultaneously, we have the Syncretic forum. Hope this helps.

 

[Vinayaka]

The word 'Hinduism' [probably] stared being used since the time Alexander the great crossed the river 'sindu' to conquer the territories here and since he could not prnounce the word 'sindu' with a 's' it came out of his mouth as being pronounced with an 'h' which is 'hindu'.
Prior to that there was no particular 'religion' as such. There used to be a culture which was termed 'sanatan dharma' which means 'sanatan' or having no beginning or end and 'dharma' or a way of life.
Now here the way of life is not restricted to any particular way; it is open ended which means this culture allows each individual to live life as per his own way but reminds everyone of 'dharma'.
then what is 'dharma'?
It is whatever way an individual takes to be free to be in oneness with THAT original state of being to be in one with the universal consciousness/energy/God etc.
The moot point is to be conscious which the society then allowed individual freedom.
In effect this meant that your way of conscious life be that of an atheist, chistian, muslim, buddhists, jins, sikhs, etc. etc. etc. Still one is a follower of that culture termed 'sanatan dharma'. That is what 'sanatan dharma' is.

slowly over time and specially after Alexander's visit, the word 'hindu' has taken over and so has the understanding of most people from this culture of 'snatan dharma' to take oneself to be part of a path which is distinct from others though as explained above that by definition every path is part of 'sanatan dharma'.

If you would like to re-open the oft and over debated subject of 'Hinduism' versus 'Sanatana Dharma' please open a new thread in 'Same faith Debates'

 

[Maya3]

Of course, believing or not believing is a person's prerogative. 'Adhogatim' means being sent down, that is where 'narakas' are supposed to be. I thought one verse would suffice. Here is the next giving the exact location (can be checked with Hubble telescope):

Rsih uvacha: "Antarantarala eva tri-jagatyas tu disi daksinasyam adhastad bhumer uparistac cha jalad yasyam agnisvattadayah pitr-gana disi svanam gotranam paramena samadhina satya evasisa asasana nivasanti"

(The great sage Sukadeva Gosvami answered: All the hellish planets are situated in the intermediate space between the three worlds and the Garbhodaka Ocean. They lie on the southern side of the universe, beneath Bhu-mandala, and slightly above the water of the Garbhodaka Ocean. Pitrloka is also located in this region between the Garbhodaka Ocean and the lower planetary systems. All the residents of Pitrloka, headed by Agnisvatta, meditate in great samadhi on the Supreme Personality of Godhead and always wish their families well.)
Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 5 Chapter 26 Verse 5

"Tatra haike narakan eka-vimsatim ganayanti atha tams te rajan nama-rupa-laksanato 'nukramisyamas tamisro 'ndhatamisro rauravo maharauravah kumbhipakah kalasutram asipatravanam sukaramukham andhakupah krmibhojanah sandamsas taptasurmir vajrakantaka-salmali vaitarani puyodah pranarodho visasanam lalabhaksah sarameyadanam avicir ayahpanam iti; kinca ksarakardamo raksogana-bhojanah sulaproto dandasuko 'vata-nirodhanah paryavartanah sucimukham ity asta-vimsatir naraka vividha-yatana-bhumayah"

(Some authorities say that there is a total of twenty-one hellish planets, and some say twenty-eight. My dear King, I shall outline all of them according to their names, forms and symptoms. The names of the different hells are as follows: Tamisra, Andhatamisra, Raurava, Maharaurava, Kumbhipaka, Kalasutra, Asi-patravana, Sukaramukha, Andhakupa, Krmibhojana, Sandamsa, Taptasurmi, Vajrakantaka-salmali, Vaitarani, Puyoda, Pranarodha, Visasana, Lalabhaksa, Sarameyadana, Avici, Ayahpana, Ksarakardama, Raksogana-bhojana, Sulaprota, Dandasuka, Avata-nirodhana, Paryavartana and Sucimukha. All these planets are meant for punishing the living entities.)
Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 5 Chapter 26 Verse 7

It's remarkable that they knew about planets during this time in history at all.
The fact that they might have thought that they were hellish isn't hard to imagine since we as humans didn't have the technology to investigate our universe like we do now.

Maya

 

[Aupmanyav]

The word 'Hinduism' [probably] stared being used since the time Alexander the great crossed the river 'sindu' to conquer the territories here and since he could not prnounce the word 'sindu' with a 's' it came out of his mouth as being pronounced with an 'h' which is 'hindu'.

Now here the way of life is not restricted to any particular way; it is open ended which means this culture allows each individual to live life as per his own way but reminds everyone of 'dharma'.
then what is 'dharma'?
It is whatever way an individual takes to be free to be in oneness with THAT original state of being to be in one with the universal consciousness/energy/God etc.

Zenzero, I find that we are friends. Do you remember since when? Recent or Old?

However, I would like to offer a few changes in your post. The first people to call us Hindus were probably Parthians or Bactrians. Punjab is known as 'Hapta-Hendu' in Zoroastrian Avesta. Therefore they must have called as Hindus/Hendus. Therefore, the name given to us is as old as at least Zoroaster. And Zoroaster is believed to have lived in 11th or 10th Century B.C.E. and he was a Bactrian.

I have checked the names of the sages who wrote RigVeda, but I did not find the name of Spitama, Zoroaster's father, in the list. However, his family name probably was Angirasa, a descendant of Sage Angirasa of the Vedas. There are many Angirasas among the writers of verses of RigVeda, particularly Book 6; a total of 3619 verses, which make around 1/3 of RigVeda. You may notice that many aboriginal religions and people had no other name for themselves and their beliefs other than 'us' and 'our religion'.

The best translation of 'dharma' that I have been able to find is 'fulfillment of one's duties and engaging in righteous conduct'. Duties will include everything, first to Gods and Goddesses (Deva Rina - debt of the Gods and Goddesses), then to the teacher (Rishi Rina - debt to the teacher) and debt to parents (Pitri Rina - debt of the parents), then to the family, then to the society, and lastly to the whole world. Rina is debt. A Hindu is supposed to repay these three debts. By righteous conduct, we mean somewhat the same as the Buddhist Eight-fold Noble Path. I hope this clarifies the situation a little better.

 

[Vinayaka]

As to the historicity of the term 'Hindu' , some of the myths and evidence against them are explored here. Antiquity and Origin of the Term 'Hindu' by Dr. Murlidhar H. Pahoja « Hindu Encyclopedia Hindu Encyclopedia

 

[Poeticus]

As to the historicity of the term 'Hindu' , some of the myths and evidence against them are explored here. Antiquity and Origin of the Term 'Hindu' by Dr. Murlidhar H. Pahoja « Hindu Encyclopedia Hindu Encyclopedia

Thank you for the informative link, V.
I have bookmarked it for future reading.​

 

[Vinayaka]

Thank you for the informative link, V.
I have bookmarked it for future reading.​

It's another of the 'Let's just accept what the European historians had to say about us.' without further thought. So this guy goes into quite the detail I think. Personally, I love the term.

 

[Aupmanyav]

As to the historicity of the term 'Hindu' , some of the myths and evidence against them are explored here. Antiquity and Origin of the Term 'Hindu' by Dr. Murlidhar H. Pahoja « Hindu Encyclopedia Hindu Encyclopedia

I am afraid, Vinayaka, the book is of a very shoddy scholarship. Adding the name of 'Veda Vyas' (Dr. Pahoja cannot even spell the name of the great sage correctly. It is one word and should be written as "VedaVyasa") and referreing to something just as shoddy "8. Tansukh Ram Gupta, Hindu Dharma Parichaya, Surya Bharati Prakashan, New Delhi 1997". Dr. Pahoja says (in which he misspells Zarathrushta/Zoroaster):

"In the Avestan Gatha Shatir, 163rd verse speaks of the visit of Veda Vyasa to the court of Gustashp and in presence of Zorashtra (?), Veda Vyas introduces himself saying 'man marde am Hind jijad - I am man born in 'Hind'. Veda Vyas was an elder contemporary of Sri Krishna (3,100 BC)."

Modern Iranists place Zoroaster around 11-10 Century BCE. I could not find Gatha Shatir. There is no verse numbered 163 at The Zend Avesta, Part III (SBE31) Index or at [YASNA] Chapter.72 THE END.. I found this link for King Gostashp, the benefactor of Zoroaster GO?T?SP ? Encyclopaedia Iranica. Dr. Pahoja should have given a better reference. (though I know where he is coming from)