Because it makes outrageous supernatural claims based on the primitive assumptions, fabrications and wishful thinking of Bronze Age goat herders in their attempt to "answer" unknowable questions. That such a book has stood the test of time is indicative of mans deep desire to have answers - no matter how absurd they may be. He will accept them as "truth" because they put his minds at ease. Believers are comforted by the baseless "knowledge" that there is meaning and reason for why. By suspending critical thinking and forgoing the skepticism that would normally be applied to any other claim, one can attain pseudo satisfaction in accepting the emotional explanations of an ancient culture. Rather than accepting the reality of what an explanation based on facts may suggest, believers wallow in the warm fuzzies of what their version of the "truth" is and are deluding themselves in doing so.
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Because it makes outrageous supernatural claims based on the primitive assumptions, fabrications and wishful thinking of Bronze Age goat herders in their attempt to "answer" unknowable questions. That such a book has stood the test of time is indicative of mans deep desire to have answers - no matter how absurd they may be. He will accept them as "truth" because they put his minds at ease. Believers are comforted by the baseless "knowledge" that there is meaning and reason for why. By suspending critical thinking and forgoing the skepticism that would normally be applied to any other claim, one can attain pseudo satisfaction in accepting the emotional explanations of an ancient culture. Rather than accepting the reality of what an explanation based on facts may suggest, believers wallow in the warm fuzzies of what their version of the "truth" is and are deluding themselves in doing so.
Ozzie
Well-Known Member
A much reason as I have for believing a Yellow Pages of which or the authors are unknown, or any reference for that matter without checking the source. Act of faith my friend!
Hope
Princesinha
Can you prove supernatural events don't occur?
No?
Can those who believe in supernatural events prove they do occur?
Hmm, no again.
How is one argument more valid than the other if neither can be proven?
Actually, scientists who have taken it upon themselves to examine the validity of purported supernatural events brought to their attention have found that not one of them is legitimate. So yes. I can prove that at least those events are caused by something other than a supernatural force. Visit James Randi's website ( http://www.randi.org/research/index.html ). He's got a million dollars waiting for the first person who can present to his team of scientists a purported supernatural phenomena that can be authenticated.
The million dollars is still up for grabs isn't it?
But they are only outrageous if you don't understand them. Same as anything.
Hope
Princesinha
Ah. But those supposed events are only a limited selection, are they not?
You still didn't give me an answer, though. How is the claim supernatural events are impossible any more valid than the claim that they are possible? Especially when real supernatural events are inexplicable through scientific means anyway?
Has this Randi guy ever investigated the crop circle phenomenon? Most of these are clearly not man-made hoaxes, especially as they are becoming more and more complex.
crop circles - Google Image Search
(I do not know what causes crop circles, but I do think they point to some supernatural source, whether good or evil, who knows.)
Isn't that what I said?
I'm not aware that I suggested supernatural events are completely impossible. I think it was more like "highly improbable".
To address your question, many falsifiable supernatural claims have been studied, tested and retested. And for the ones that have been exposed to the scrutiny of science, not a single supernatural claim has been validated. Because of this fact, determinations can be made as to the probability that other supernatural claims (if tested) would follow in the footsteps of their predecessors.
Now if it was scientifically determined that Mike does indeed have the supernatural power to levitate, believers in the supernatural would be vigilant making sure the world became aware of the finding in order to ad credibility to their position. Conversely, I feel that since every supernatural claim presented for testing has been show to hold no validity one can surmise that if not all, the majority of falsifiable supernatural phenomena can be debunked and I would suggest that this assumption could reasonably be extended to the nonfalsifiable claims as well.
I hope this clears up a few things for you. Basically, there are many valid reasons to surmise that claims of the supernatural are invalid and that a great deal of skepticism should be applied to all supernatural claims. The advocates of the supernatural position, at the first indication that a supernatural claim is validated, would finally have something to hang their hat on. If you feel you're privy to a supernatural phenomena that you feel has merit, you need to get in touch with Randi. Unfortunately, I highly doubt that anyone will be depositing that million dollar check anytime soon.
When you say "real supernatural event" are you referring to claims of nonfalsifiable supernatural events? If this is so, what reason is there that we shouldn't apply the same skepticism to their validity as we do to the falsifiable claims the have not been scientifically scrutinized? Is there something special about a nonfalsifiable claim that makes it immune to our understanding of the invalidity of the falsifiable claims that were tested and debunked?
I'm not particularly certain. But it's very possibly. Maybe you could research his portfolio and see what you can find - unless of course you'd rather have me do it. I'd also be interested in finding out. If you make it your mission, be sure to fill me in on what you discover.
I'm very interested to understand why you immediately come to assume these crop circles are the product of magic. Am I correct in saying that you're aware of the principle known as Occam's Razor? If not, it states that "the simplest explanation tends to be the right one." Is magic the simplest explanation to explain the crop circles? Could it not be feasible that some very organized and highly motivated individuals may be behind the mystery? Just because there's not an immediate explanation for some mysterious occurence doesn't mean it must be the product of something supernatural. It might behove you to give science an opportunity to thoroughly investigate the matter and either solve the mystery or at least develop a reasonable hypothesis to explain the occurrences before regressing into fantastic speculation that suggests some supernatural event has unfolded.
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
What do crop circles have to do with God?
Regards,
Scott
Regards,
Scott