Anything Goes LDS Thread (Everyone Welcome)

[FFH]

1) Is sexual intercourse intended (by God) to be pleasurable to humans?

Yes, and for all eternity, and I don't hesitate for one minute to say that, but only if we meet the necessary requirements found in the LDS faith, otherwise we will live as single men and women for eternity. This much is known in LDS doctrine, which is that we will live eternally as single men and women if we do not enter into the sacred "everlasting covenant of marriage" (performed in saced LDS temples, which I myself have entered into with my wife) we will live as a single beings for eternity. I can't imagine that kind of existance, but it will happen if one does not accept the principles and exalting ordinances as laid out in the restored gospel of Jesus Christ in the LDS faith.

2) How many wives and children did Joseph Smith claim as his own?

34.

The Wives of Joseph Smith

3) At what age may a Mormon become (or considered to be) a priest of the church?

Aaronic (lower) Priesthood (12 years of age) Melchizedek (higher) Priesthood (18 years of age)

May girls/women expect to attain such a level of ordained authority within the LDS faith?

No.

4) Are women permitted to be "baptized" in the same manner/method as males?

Yes.

What constitutes an acceptable "authority" in such rites?

Aaronic Priesthood

5) Whom are Charles Anthon, and Dr. Samuel Mitchell, to the LDS church?

Anthon saw, of course, a copy of some the characters found on the "gold plates". He first claimed they were authentic, until he discovered the origin of the characters, then recalled his written statement by promptly tearing it up, fearing ridicule by his peers. most likely. He obviously may have also feared for his job as professor at Columbia College, thus the most likely reason for recanting.

Of course WIki has a great link: Charles Anthon

This was one of my first threads I started when I first joined here, detailing what happened between Oliver Cowdery and Charles Anthon. I'll dig it up.

6) What does Abraham 3:9,16 convey, and what does it suggest as "truth"?

Abraham 3:9
And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

Abraham 3: 16
16 If two things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them; therefore Kolob is the greatest of all the Kokaubeam that thou hast seen, because it is nearest unto me.

There's a great video, someone of another faith did, which attempted to place God's planet in our universe. It's a great depiction/guess. I can provide a link later if you'ld like. No one knows the exact positioning, of course, we can only guess.

7) What is a "skin curse", and who bears such a curse?

All skin colors are beautiful, I particularly like Asian skin colors, they are the most beautiful.

In other words I'll pass for now on this question. Read the Book of Mormon it describes in detail the reasons for the skin color change.

Just because a particular ethnic group has a darker skin color does not mean they are cursed. Curses run much deeper than the surface of the skin.

White men in many ways are much more cursed because of pride if they think themselves better than another because of skin color. Look around there are much more beautiful blessed dark skinned ethnic groups than any white group of people.

The LDS church is stronger in membership in South America than in any other part of the world, including all of North America. They are literally becoming more righteous and blessed than those in North America, a prophecy from the Book of Mormon that is coming to pass in these last days.

I see a beautiful Hispanic lady, frequent where I work, about twice a month. She has THE most pleasent personality/dispostition/innocence I've ever experienced in any one human being. I nearly hugged her the other day. She nearly had me in tears. She had lost her dog and I said I would pray for her to find her dog and was shocked when her dog walked by where I live, nearly 8 miles away, but couldn't catch it. Long story short she finally got her dog back, then came back to where I worked in tears and we nearly hugged over a stupid dog, but that wasn't the point, she had recognized love in me and I in her for each other. We hardly really knew each other. I have a deep love for Hispanics and Asians for some reason, especially Asians since I spent nearly two years in Japan, my second, or should I say my first home. I get very homesick for that place, it's like no other place on earth. The Japanese are extremely respectful and loving of others, no matter what ethnic group, especially LDS Japanese members, they are like no other people on earth.

8) What does a "burning in the bosom" feel like?

A literal warming of the heart, as if someone cranked up the temperature of the blood inside the heart extremely fast, a burning/warming sensation which fills the heart. It's a definite physical sensation. I've tried to create scenarios in which I've tested this sensation out by posing/asking specific questions of the Lord, even, what seemed to me like, trivial questions. He (God) cares about every aspect of our lives, even what may seem like trivial or insignificant things.

Test it out, ask God, with real intent, about something you really don't know the answer to. Place two different answers or scenarios in the front of your mind and ask God, in faith, about both of them. Think and ponder both questions or scenarios and see which question or scenario brings about a warming and/or a full sensation of the heart. One question or scenario will leave you feeling empty inside your heart and the other full. It takes a lot of practice and faith and belief in the unseen.

9) Could you point to "Koleb" on any available star chart? If not, where in the night sky should we be looking to observe it's physical presence?

Again, there is a great video which takes a stab at the possible postion of God's planet in our universe. I've posted it here on this forum, will dig that up too, but it's not an LDS film and no LDS member will attempt to place Kolob on an astrological map, it would only be a guess, because we don't have enough details, of course.

[Note: These are but a few of the inquiries I put to LDS missionaries that knock upon my door, most uninvited. I have more...]

Great questions.

Ah forgot to address your question about Dr. Samuel Mitchell.

All LDS members are studying Joseph Smith's life and teachings this year.

Part of the opoening page outline places Anthon and Mitchel at the heart of these events.

Joseph Smith Jr. - Significant Events

"1828 February, Joseph Smith Age 22

Martin Harris took a transcript and partial translation of the Book of Mormon to Professor Charles Anthon of Columbia College and to Dr. Samuel L. Mitchell of New York. In June, Harris borrowed and lost 116 manuscript pages."

I need to read this section of the manuel and see what the offical LDS writings say about Olivers Cowdery's (Joseph Smith's scribe) encounter with Anthon and Mitchell.

 

[s2a]

Hiya Nutshell,

I asked:
1) Is sexual intercourse intended (by God) to be pleasurable to humans?

You said:

Yes.

Is there some LDS doctrine or scripture that specifically says as much?

I inquired:
2) How many wives and children did Joseph Smith claim as his own?

I'm not certain of the exact number and would have to do research to give you an answer.

OK. I have time...and will patiently await your informed and researched reply.

3) At what age may a Mormon become (or considered to be) a priest of the church? May girls/women expect to attain such a level of ordained authority within the LDS faith?

Young men of 12 years of age may enter the lower or Aaronic priesthood. Young women have other responsibilities they are called to. In either case, it is not about attaining levels. Rather, it's about service with increasing amounts of responsibility.

OK. 12 year old boys may preach. 50 year old mothers are prohibited from preaching. Check.

I asked:
4) Are women permitted to be "baptized" in the same manner/method as males? What constitutes an acceptable "authority" in such rites?

Yes. Women and men are baptized in the same manner. The baptism is performed by a Priest who calls the person by name, says the words of the ordinance, and immerses the person being baptized in water.

Cool.

5) Whom are Charles Anthon, and Dr. Samuel Mitchell, to the LDS church?

Charles Anthon was shown character copied from the gold plates of the Book of Mormon. There are conflicting stories as to what transpired at this event.

Oh?

What sort of "conflicts", and do they persist to this day?

I inquired:
6) What does Abraham 3:9,16 convey, and what does it suggest as "truth"?

These verses reference Kolob which the chapter teaches is the place closest to God.

Interesting..
~~~~~~~~~~
"And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same border as that upon which thou standest.
And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God. Thus I, Abraham, talked with the Lord, face to face, as one man talketh with another; and he told me of the works which his hands had made; And he said unto me: My son, my son (and his hand was stretched out), behold I will show you all these. And he put his hand upon mine eyes, and I saw those things which his hands had made, which were many; and they multiplied before mine eyes, and I could not see the end thereof. And he said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me: Kokob, which is star. And he said unto me: Olea, which is the moon. And he said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"...all those planets..."?

What planets? Where? Are these planets to be one day inhabited? if so, by whom?

7) What is a "skin curse", and who bears such a curse?

The changing of skin color is not the curse.

OK.

What then is "the curse", and whom bears it?

8) What does a "burning in the bosom" feel like?

It is a phrase used by some to describe the experience of truth being confirmed by the Holy Ghost. Each person experiences this differently, IMO. The better explanation is that the Holy Ghost confirms Truth to the person's mind.

Hmmm. OK. Should this be better described then as a "burning in the mind"?

Consider my perspective, if you will.

When I complain that I have a "headache", or that I might be currently experiencing "heartburn", there's no especial testimony of faith, or revelation of "truth" (or confirmation of the Holy Ghost), within my expression of personal discomfort.

It's probably even fair to observe that most folks can readily relate to such symptoms of discomfort, regardless of their religious leanings. Sure, headaches can be localized, and heartburn can be intense or mild, but to claim especial or unique "knowledge/insight" into such symptoms seems, well...self-serving (or self-gratifying) at best. How does a "delivered" LDS adherent distinguish between pangs of heartburn, or a common headache, and any "confirmation" compliments of the Holy Ghost?

9) Could you point to "Koleb" on any available star chart? If not, where in the night sky should we be looking to observe it's physical presence?

That information is not available.

OK. Why not?

Besides, we should not look to the star to find God. Rather, we should be on our knees with our heads humbly bowed before his glory.

OK. It just seems that we might all better appreciate "His glory" if we could observe it firsthand for ourselves...

 

[roli]

Perhaps it's a bold claim, but it would be less than honest of us not to say what we believe. I wouldn't use the words "lost" or "deceived." Our Church teaches that there is much good and much truth in most religions. The fact that there are over 30,000 different Christian denominations in the world today does seem problematic to me, but I'd say that by an large, we look more kindly on the rest of Christianity than it looks upon us.

And you just happen to be the true church.
I don't know about other Christian denominations but we don't look at you or judge you persoanlly,because our struggles are not flesh and blood ,but principalities, powers and host of wickedness in high places, it is a spiritual battle ,always has been, always will be.
The doctrine you teach that contradicts scripture is what we don't look to kindly on.
We are told to test the spirits to see what is truth and what is error.
If you claim you have the Holy Spirit and I believe we have the Holy Spirit one of us are wrong.
I have the witness of the Holy Spirit, yet I have had LDS insist I pray a prayer to receive the Holy Spirit to confirm the LDS is truth.
I mean John says 1Jo 2:19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

We believe that God is a glorified, immortal being of flesh and bones (not flesh and blood). We believe that He was God in the beginning

Do you know how many scriptures you have to change to meet your doctrines does that not concern you?
Have you seen God at any timeJhn 1:18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

But what do you believe him to have been prior to that state.
Scripture clearly says Jhn 4:24But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

 

[s2a]

It's "Kolob" and I believe you already know the answer to that question. If you're going to ask questions, at least make them the kind that aren't going to be a waste of our time to answer.

Forgive my typo as some sort of construable and directed personal assault.

I can not fairly gauge or account as to what specific inquiries may qualify as a "waste of time" within your own particular regard.

I leave others to ponder what I may "already know" about Kolob...but what I "know" must pale in comparison to what you might be able to share...

 

[nutshell]

Hiya Nutshell,


OK. 12 year old boys may preach. 50 year old mothers are prohibited from preaching. Check.

This comment demonstrates your desire to distort what I say so you can try and make the LDS religion look bad. I never said preach as that is not what the priesthood is for. Do you want a serious dialogue or are you just looking to bash?

If you're just looking to bash then screw you. If you want an adult conversation let me know and I'll address the rest of your post.

 

[kadzbiz]

Where does the word Mormon come from?

 

[roli]

So which translation is the one that has neither added to nor removed from God's word? We use the KJV, along with a few other million Christians.

Sure, maybe we're wrong. Maybe you're right. Maybe the Catholics are right. Maybe the Presbyterians are right. Maybe the Methodists are right.

The translation that changes the complete message of the gospel and other key doctrinal topics
You say you use the KLV, but what does that really mean, if you don't believe it is the complete written and inspired word of God.
You told me, it's the truth, if it is been translated properly, what's your guide for that standard ?
If I was taught to use another book other than the bible all my life and told the bible was not the full truth, to me it would'nt really have much significant meaning or even purpose as would the ones that are endorsed.

You may carry the bible in your pack sack and use it once and a while in your services, but most, if not all of the encounters I have had with LDS members,they certainly don't carry or use the scriptures as you make us believe, unless your confronting Christians. I don't know about your persoanl studiesbut that is my expereince and I make a point to bump into your brothers in teh LDS.
I think I am even on their ignore list, not that I am insulting or offensive, but I am seen more as a threat,I am gentle ,slow to speak and quick to listen,polite, but I am biblically sound enough to counter your teachings.
I know you have an excellent collection of rehearsed scirptures that are typically used to counter your confrontation with a well versed christian, but when some of those guys get caught in a contradiction or lose their ground, they coil and jet faster than I can blink.
It's quite funny when they are challenged to far, they say,ah ,we really have to go , we have a meeting, someone is waiting for us ...!!! we'll call you,stuff like that.

I can take the NIV NASB ,KJV ,NKJV ,Amplified, which I use all of them extensively in my studies, they line up pretty much every verse with some minor variations of verbs ,pronouns, adjectives, but on the most part, the message of the verse is typically never altered to create complete new doctrine,as your extra books or biblical amendments tend to do.

 

[s2a]

This comment demonstrates your desire to distort what I say so you can try and make the LDS religion look bad. I never said preach as that is not what the priesthood is for. Do you want a serious dialogue or are you just looking to bash?

If you're just looking to bash then screw you. If you want an adult conversation let me know and I'll address the rest of your post.

HIya nutshell,

First of all, you should know well enough that I harbor no more animosity or prejudice against Momonism that I do ANY other faith-based belief, mythology, superstition, or claimed supernaturalism. I consider all to be utter bunk. I retain no favorites to especially persecute, or persistently bolster.

The LDS has enough of it's own unique claims to address/answer, without my aid or assistance in purposefully attempting to "make the LDS religion look bad".

If my summary commentary was in error, I invite you to lend specific and supportive correction.

If you wish to qualify my inquiries as simply being puerile and/or disingenuous, then be my guest. If you do, I retain the equality of access and opportunity to illustrate the inadequacies of such failing and inaccurate characterizations. Seems only fair to me...

You are always welcome to present yourself (as ambassador/apologist of the LDS faith) in whatever manner or fashion as it may ultimately please you to do so...

 

[FFH]

Forgive my typo as some sort of construable and directed personal assault.

I can not fairly gauge or account as to what specific inquiries may qualify as a "waste of time" within your own particular regard.

I leave others to ponder what I may "already know" about Kolob...but what I "know" must pale in comparison to what you might be able to share...

Yeah, she took it wrong. I know you were being serious and genuinely wanted answers. We really don't know any more than anyone else concerning the planet where God resides, only that one day on God's planet equals a thousand years on our planet.

Einstein, of course, discovered the possibility of time being different/relative depending on the speed at which you were traveling. I imagine God's planet travels faster than ours and possibly spins slower on it's axis or possibly doesn't travel or spin at all, but is fixed.

Scriptures tell us, "All is as one day with God".

 

[FFH]

If you're just looking to bash then screw you.

Hey, I said play nice.

We as LDS tend to get upset when challenged with tough questions.

You, s2a, have come forward with some great, but very tough questions which most LDS have little knowlege about or answers to. Be/go easy on them/us.

 

[FFH]

Where does the word Mormon come from?

Mormon was the person who abridged/compiled/edited the records which comprise/make up the Book of Mormon.

You could say that Mormon was the editor in chief of the Book of Mormon.

Mormon's sons was Moroni, who buried the "gold" plates which the Book of Mormon was translated from, after Joseph Smith found them 1400 years later, where Moroni had buried them.

 

[nutshell]

HIya nutshell,

First of all, you should know well enough that I harbor no more animosity or prejudice against Momonism that I do ANY other faith-based belief, mythology, superstition, or claimed supernaturalism. I consider all to be utter bunk. I retain no favorites to especially persecute, or persistently bolster.

The LDS has enough of it's own unique claims to address/answer, without my aid or assistance in purposefully attempting to "make the LDS religion look bad".

If my summary commentary was in error, I invite you to lend specific and supportive correction.

If you wish to qualify my inquiries as simply being puerile and/or disingenuous, then be my guest. If you do, I retain the equality of access and opportunity to illustrate the inadequacies of such failing and inaccurate characterizations. Seems only fair to me...

You are always welcome to present yourself (as ambassador/apologist of the LDS faith) in whatever manner or fashion as it may ultimately please you to do so...

You didn't answer my question.

 

[nutshell]

Hiya Nutshell,

I asked:
1) Is sexual intercourse intended (by God) to be pleasurable to humans?

You said:
Is there some LDS doctrine or scripture that specifically says as much?

I can't think of any that expressly states it. My answer is mostly drawn from my own personal experience as a lifelong Mormon. I've heard many times that sex is intended to be pleasurable and I've never heard the opposite.

I inquired:
2) How many wives and children did Joseph Smith claim as his own?

OK. I have time...and will patiently await your informed and researched reply.

I haven't done the research yet, but according to other posters it appears to be between 30 and 34.

3) At what age may a Mormon become (or considered to be) a priest of the church? May girls/women expect to attain such a level of ordained authority within the LDS faith?

OK. 12 year old boys may preach. 50 year old mothers are prohibited from preaching. Check.

That's not what I said. Priesthood does not equal preaching. In fact, women preach from the pulpit every Sunday.

I asked:
4) Are women permitted to be "baptized" in the same manner/method as males? What constitutes an acceptable "authority" in such rites?

Cool.

Yes it is.

5) Whom are Charles Anthon, and Dr. Samuel Mitchell, to the LDS church?

Oh?

What sort of "conflicts", and do they persist to this day?

In as few words as possible: LDS Martin Harris claimed that Anton told him the characters were genuine, but later recanted when he heard of their source. Anton claimed he never admitted they were genuine characters.

I inquired:
6) What does Abraham 3:9,16 convey, and what does it suggest as "truth"?

Interesting..
~~~~~~~~~~
"And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same border as that upon which thou standest.
And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God. Thus I, Abraham, talked with the Lord, face to face, as one man talketh with another; and he told me of the works which his hands had made; And he said unto me: My son, my son (and his hand was stretched out), behold I will show you all these. And he put his hand upon mine eyes, and I saw those things which his hands had made, which were many; and they multiplied before mine eyes, and I could not see the end thereof. And he said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me: Kokob, which is star. And he said unto me: Olea, which is the moon. And he said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"...all those planets..."?

What planets? Where? Are these planets to be one day inhabited? if so, by whom?

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

And - I don't care. Questions like this are just the minutia, keeping one from seeing the bigger picture God intends one to see.

7) What is a "skin curse", and who bears such a curse?

OK.

What then is "the curse", and whom bears it?

A curse is separation from God. Those out to harm God or his church might end up with it.

8) What does a "burning in the bosom" feel like?
Hmmm. OK. Should this be better described then as a "burning in the mind"?

Consider my perspective, if you will.

When I complain that I have a "headache", or that I might be currently experiencing "heartburn", there's no especial testimony of faith, or revelation of "truth" (or confirmation of the Holy Ghost), within my expression of personal discomfort.

It's probably even fair to observe that most folks can readily relate to such symptoms of discomfort, regardless of their religious leanings. Sure, headaches can be localized, and heartburn can be intense or mild, but to claim especial or unique "knowledge/insight" into such symptoms seems, well...self-serving (or self-gratifying) at best. How does a "delivered" LDS adherent distinguish between pangs of heartburn, or a common headache, and any "confirmation" compliments of the Holy Ghost?

With all due respect, that's a stupid post on your part. I said nothing of "burning in the mind." I said truth confirmed to one's mind. This means knowledge you didn't previously have is now there.

Also, don't take "burning" so literally. When you have a burning desire for your right hand are you actually burning or experiencing some pain or discomfort?

9) Could you point to "Koleb" on any available star chart? If not, where in the night sky should we be looking to observe it's physical presence?

OK. Why not?

OK. It just seems that we might all better appreciate "His glory" if we could observe it firsthand for ourselves...

Why not? Because it doesn't matter. As for His glory - it is observable first hand. You just need to know where to look.

 

[Francine]

It's quite funny when they are challenged to far, they say,ah ,we really have to go , we have a meeting, someone is waiting for us ...!!! we'll call you,stuff like that.

If what you're implying were true, the persistent little buggers would never come back.

 

[TrueBlue2]

Missionaries, and other members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, are encouraged to teach the FUNDAMENTALS of LDS doctrine. By definition that means faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism, modern revelation, the restoration of the gospel back to the earth, prophets, the nature of God, and the meaning of the atonement. These fundamentals have the power to change lives, and to bring people into a closer relationship with God.

The problem with opening a 'fire sale' forum such as this one is most of the questions have nothing to do with the fundamental principals that change lives. Instead, everyone wants to know about polygamy, blacks, Kolob, and other rumors that they've heard from one anti-Mormon source or another.

But if you're a sincere truth seeker there is much to learn in the LDS church. If there was ever a time when there was a GREAT NEED for God to speak to man it is TODAY. Having a prophet on the earth today changes everything when you think about it. The Book of Mormon is a SECOND witness to Jesus Christ. It does nothing to discredit him; but only honors him. Having a man on the earth that carries the same stature as Moses or Elijah is amazing.

 

[Francine]

Having a man on the earth that carries the same stature as Moses or Elijah is amazing.

"Every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." -- Master Je Tzu

 

[Katzpur]

Forgive my typo as some sort of construable and directed personal assault.

Nothing to forgive. I never implied that you intended to insult me, did I? I simply corrected the spelling of a word, since I had no way of knowing whether it was merely a typo or not. :slap:

I can not fairly gauge or account as to what specific inquiries may qualify as a "waste of time" within your own particular regard.

Oh, I think you can.

I leave others to ponder what I may "already know" about Kolob...but what I "know" must pale in comparison to what you might be able to share...

I think it's a pretty safe bet that we don't believe Kolob to be on any star charts. On the other hand, maybe it is. Maybe everybody else just knows it by a different name.

 

[Katzpur]

And you just happen to be the true church.

Sure, I believe I my Church is true. Do you believe yours is true? Why is it okay for you to believe yours is true, but it's not okay for me to believe mine is true?

The doctrine you teach that contradicts scripture is what we don't look to kindly on.

If what we taught actually did contradict scripture, you'd have a point.

We are told to test the spirits to see what is truth and what is error.
If you claim you have the Holy Spirit and I believe we have the Holy Spirit one of us are wrong.

I believe you're right.

I have the witness of the Holy Spirit, yet I have had LDS insist I pray a prayer to receive the Holy Spirit to confirm the LDS is truth.

We don't insist on anything. But God gives wisdom to those who ask in faith and don't already have their minds made up. Have you read the Book of Mormon or did you just decide to dispense with that part and just pray about it instead?

Do you know how many scriptures you have to change to meet your doctrines...{/quote]No, but I'm sure you could tell me. How many?

does that not concern you?

No, because I can't think of any we've changed.

Have you seen God at any time.

No, I have not. But I suspect you already knew that.

But what do you believe him to have been prior to that state.

By "Him," are you referring to the Father or the Son?

Scripture clearly says Jhn 4:24But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

I do worship Him in spirit and in truth. And I believe He is a spirit, too. I also believe you and I are spirits... spirits clothed in flesh. Surely you're not going to argue that Jesus ceased to be God when he was alive here on earth! There is nothing in the scriptures that says a spirit can not dwell within a physical body. Jesus is proof that it can. It is further proof that a spirit that dwells within a physical body does not automatically cease to be God.

 

[Katzpur]

The translation that changes the complete message of the gospel and other key doctrinal topics.

I see. Well, the KJV doesn't change the gospel message, so I guess I'm on safe ground.

You say you use the KLV, but what does that really mean, if you don't believe it is the complete written and inspired word of God.

First of all, whether the Bible is complete and whether it's inspired are two different issues entirely. The Bible never even claims to be complete; as a matter of fact, it clearly states that it is not. If you want to discuss that point further, let me know. I do believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God.

You told me, it's the truth, if it is been translated properly, what's your guide for that standard ?

Revelation to God's living prophets.

If I was taught to use another book other than the bible all my life and told the bible was not the full truth, to me it would'nt really have much significant meaning or even purpose as would the ones that are endorsed.

Well, let me ask you this... Suppose all of the books of the Bible were published separately and not in a single bound volume. If you went into a book store and bought a copy of Matthew's gospel account, you'd get some excellent reading material. What you'd get was the truth, but it wouldn't be the "full" truth. In order to get a more complete accounting of the Savior's ministry, you'd also have to pick up a copy of Mark, Luke and John. Just because none of them alone contains the "full" truth, that doesn't mean that they don't all endorse the full truth. If you think for one minute that we use the Book of Mormon to prove the Bible to be false or anything of that sort, you are sadly mistaken. It's not called "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" for nothing.

You may carry the bible in your pack sack and use it once and a while in your services, but most, if not all of the encounters I have had with LDS members,they certainly don't carry or use the scriptures as you make us believe, unless your confronting Christians. I don't know about your persoanl studiesbut that is my expereince and I make a point to bump into your brothers in teh LDS.

Most of us carry what we call a "quad." It contains the Holy Bible as well as our other "Standard Works." And you are again mistaken if you believe that we use it only "once in a while." We use it constantly. I don't think I've ever been to church in my life when we did not read from and learn from the Bible. Now I don't carry my scriptures wherever I go. If you were to bump into me on the street, at the grocery store or at work, you probably would find that I don't carry my scriptures. If you think that means that I don't use them daily, you're wrong.

I think I am even on their ignore list, not that I am insulting or offensive, but I am seen more as a threat,I am gentle ,slow to speak and quick to listen,polite, but I am biblically sound enough to counter your teachings.

Well then, why don't you start a one-on-one debate to try to do so? I've suggested it at least three times now.

I know you have an excellent collection of rehearsed scirptures that are typically used to counter your confrontation with a well versed christian, but when some of those guys get caught in a contradiction or lose their ground, they coil and jet faster than I can blink.

This Kat coils only when she is ready to pounce, roli. I'm jetting no where. I'm asking you to prove to me in a one-on-one debate that LDS doctrine contradicts the Bible. Put your money where your mouth is, pal.

It's quite funny when they are challenged to far, they say,ah ,we really have to go , we have a meeting, someone is waiting for us ...!!! we'll call you,stuff like that.

I have no meetings scheduled, roli. Nobody is waiting for me. I'm just waiting for you.

I can take the NIV NASB ,KJV ,NKJV ,Amplified, which I use all of them extensively in my studies, they line up pretty much every verse with some minor variations of verbs ,pronouns, adjectives, but on the most part, the message of the verse is typically never altered to create complete new doctrine,as your extra books or biblical amendments tend to do.

Well, our doctrine definitely is more comprehensive than yours, if that's what you mean. But clarifying or expounding upon a teaching alluded to in the Bible is not the same thing as altering it.

 

[Katzpur]

Yeah, she took it wrong.

Don't speak for me again, FFH.