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anything you want to know about me, .Lava?

.lava

.lava

Veteran Member
xkatz said:
First i would like to say congrats :rainbow1: Nice work!

Second, what is your stance on Turkey joining the EU?
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European Union is a Christian Union. most of Turkish perceive it the same. they demand certain things to be done by Turkish government. they basicly repeat what they wanted at the end of WW1. i don't find it friendly. because it was never about goodness of Turkey, on the contrary they want Turkey to be weak and gone if possible. so, they are using this subject to control Turkey. besides, i am not even sure if there is a real union. yet if we put politics aside, i think it is unavoidable to unite one day, just not in the way they would want. noone here is OK with losing power, losing land and becoming second class citizens. so to speak, no Turk would give up what our grands died for in world war


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.lava

.lava

Veteran Member
Commoner said:
Well, that's a very, very false perception. What does Christianity have to do with the EU?!

What does any religion have to do with it?
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IMO it has something to do with being united. because EU nations might not speak the same language but religion is still an item that most share. for example Swiss government who wants to ban mosques might be atheist. those who do not want to see Muslim items in their cities might be atheist people but still they would not ban churches. because religion is also a cultural issue. that's not assuming them to be Christian devotees


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Commoner

Commoner

Headache
.lava said:
IMO it has something to do with being united. because EU nations might not speak the same language but religion is still an item that most share. for example Swiss government who wants to ban mosques might be atheist. those who do not want to see Muslim items in their cities might be atheist people but still they would not ban churches. because religion is also a cultural issue. that's not assuming them to be Christian devotees


.
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Ehmm, Switzerland isn't even a member of the EU! :rolleyes:

I rest my case...:biglaugh:
 
Commoner

Commoner

Headache
.lava said:
:eek:

OK. teach me. name all the members of EU so i won't make this mistake again


.
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Ufff, that's going to be hard to do without cheating. :)

But I'll try...

UK, France, Germany, Belgium, Nederlands, Luxemburg, Denmark, Spain, Portugal, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Czeck Rep., Finland, Slovenia, Italy, Hungary, Austria, Sweden, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Ireland...

Ok, that's 25, there's supposed to be 27 :D

Had to cheat for the last two, I admit: Cyprus, Malta.

There you go, EU27.
 
love

love

tri-polar optimist
:flower2:Dear lava, you have touched my heart so many times with your post. I have frubaled you many times and would have more if the forum had let me. I know God's spirit is in your heart
 
.lava

.lava

Veteran Member
i don't have time at the moment. but if you have time you can read;

Mosques increasingly not welcome in Europe - USATODAY.com

Italian Interior Secretary Calls For Ban On New Mosques

Hijab Banned in Bulgaria Schools - IslamOnline.net - News

Austria bans construction of mosques

i don't wish to go into this so much. Swiss might be wrong example for EU but it is right in the middle of Europe. but you're right. i was wrong. but i was also right. Christianity is one of the subjects that EU nations have in common. they did not unite because of religion, their reason is more economical IMO. but i can't ignore that fact, there is not even one Muslim nation among them, mosques were burnt, not churches, they oppose Islam not Christianity, they vote against Islamic symbols not Christian and i have no doubt Turkey being 99% Muslim nation effects their judgement. i mean, if we were 99% Christians we would have been member of EU already


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Commoner

Commoner

Headache
.lava said:
i don't have time at the moment. but if you have time you can read;

Mosques increasingly not welcome in Europe - USATODAY.com

Italian Interior Secretary Calls For Ban On New Mosques

Hijab Banned in Bulgaria Schools - IslamOnline.net - News

Austria bans construction of mosques

i don't wish to go into this so much. Swiss might be wrong example for EU but it is right in the middle of Europe. but you're right. i was wrong. but i was also right. Christianity is one of the subjects that EU nations have in common. they did not unite because of religion, their reason is more economical IMO. but i can't ignore that fact, there is not even one Muslim nation among them, mosques were burnt, not churches, they oppose Islam not Christianity, they vote against Islamic symbols not Christian and i have no doubt Turkey being 99% Muslim nation effects their judgement. i mean, if we were 99% Christians we would have been member of EU already


.
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No, I don't want to go into it either. I guess I was just shocked that you would bring up religion as an issue when discussing the EU. It really isn't, it's not a Christian thing, it's not an atheistic thing, it's simply a secular institution. The reason why there is no Mulim nation in the EU is because there are no other Muslim nations in Europe.

As far as not permiting religious symbols in schools, you're dead wrong - there can be no religious symbols at all in public schools - you can't put a cross on the wall, for instance. This has nothing to do with a particular religion, it's simply the enforcement of the separation of church and state. And that's not an EU thing, it's the indivudual policy of each country that governs that.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but the same thing is against the law in Turkey! You can't wear the hijab in school. From wiki:

"Turkey prohibits by law the wearing of religious headcover and theo-political symbolic garments for both sexes in government buildings, schools, and universities;[67] the law was upheld by the Grand Chamber of the European Court of Human Rights as "legitimate" in the Leyla Şahin v. Turkey case on 10 November 2005.[68]"

As far as why Turkey isn't a member of the EU, I can give you point-by-point reasons, and they have nothing at all to do with religion - they are all economic/judicial.
 
S

Sahar

Well-Known Member
Commoner, you started an interesting argument. I want to join but it's not the place for this.
Commoner said:
It really isn't, it's not a Christian thing, it's not an atheistic thing
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This is debatable, why not starting a new thread? :)
 
kai

kai

ragamuffin
Lava The EU is nothing to do with religions Honest. look at the protestant and catholic countries that have been traditionally enemies and Germany and the the UK look at France and the UK, In fact look at Germany and the rest of Europe. Heres some stuff on Turkeys involvement which has been going on for decades.


Turkey has been an associate member since 1963,a founding member of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) in 1961[3] and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) in 1973. The country has also been an associate member of the Western European Union since 1992, and is a part of the "Western Europe" branch of the Western European and Others Group (WEOG) at the United Nations. Turkey signed a Customs Union agreement with the EU in 1995 and was officially recognised as a candidate for full membership on 12 December 1999, at the Helsinki summit of the European Council. Negotiations were started on 3 October 2005,







http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union






this is the wrong thread for this discussion maybe a new one ?
 
.lava

.lava

Veteran Member
Commoner said:
Ufff, that's going to be hard to do without cheating. :)

But I'll try...

UK, France, Germany, Belgium, Nederlands, Luxemburg, Denmark, Spain, Portugal, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Czeck Rep., Finland, Slovenia, Italy, Hungary, Austria, Sweden, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Ireland...

Ok, that's 25, there's supposed to be 27 :D

Had to cheat for the last two, I admit: Cyprus, Malta.

There you go, EU27.
Click to expand...

you can't name EU nations :eek:...

you're such a gentleman, i feel better already :)


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