APA revises 'gay gene' theory

[Smoke]

Alcoholics.

One of the things I dislike about 12-step programs is that they encourage people think they have no control over their own behavior. However, most of the habitual drunkards I've known denied even having a problem, and so had no reason to blame genetics.

 

[Comicaze247]

It gets so tiresome to hear so many people claim that they cannot control certain aspects of behavior because of genetics. It's an overused excuse in my opinion - often a copout to justify lifestyle choices.

Not always, but often enough to create skepticism. Wouldn't you agree? Or all we all simply at the mercy of our gene pool?

 

[Draka]

I just love all this "lifestyle choices" crapola. Please do enlighten us oh folks who think homosexuality is a "lifestyle choice". Precisely WHEN did you sit down and consciously DECIDE, weigh the pros and cons, mull over, your DECISION to be attracted to the opposite sex? Because if attraction to the same gender is not an inborn thing, then sexuality, in general, must all be a choice or learned behaviour right? So then, how did you make the decision to be straight? What made you choose to be attracted to and fall in love with the particular gender you chose to be compatible with?

See, I can't recall one time in my life where I made any choice in the matter of liking boys. I just did. I liked boys. I had crushes on boys when I was little. I never made any decision to, nor did I ever consider having a crush on a girl. I'd be willing to bet any one of you who thinks homosexuality is a "choice" everything I own in this world that Smoke was pretty much the same exact way.

How 'bout it Smoke? Am I wrong? Did you sit down one day and just decide "you know what? I'm going to be gay today!" ?

 

[Kathryn]

Stop and think for a second. How does someone have control over taste and attraction? Did you just choose to find your husband attractive? Was falling in love with him a choice? Did you need an excuse? Did you take responsibility for your actions? Sexuality is a very complex thing, and trying to simplify it is disingenuous.

What if my husband had not been single? I would have still found him immensely attractive. Would it have been ok for me to break up his marriage because my hormones and genes screamed out to be with him? It would have been a CHOICE for me NOT to fall in love with him - a choice based on (gasp) MORAL VALUES. So yes, I take full responsibility for my actions when it comes to "love or something like it."

Claiming that homosexuality is a "lifestyle choice" is what is really tiresome. Your objection to homosexuality isn't based on anything rational or scientific but rather on some ancient, primitive and superstitious book, which to me has no use beyond toilet paper.

That is your opinion, which to me has no use beyond...oh never mind. I really hate to stoop to that level of conversation.

 

[Kathryn]

I just love all this "lifestyle choices" crapola. Please do enlighten us oh folks who think homosexuality is a "lifestyle choice". Precisely WHEN did you sit down and consciously DECIDE, weigh the pros and cons, mull over, your DECISION to be attracted to the opposite sex?

Actually at two different stages in my life I made a conscious decision in spite of attraction, to stay within heterosexual boundaries. I made this decision based on my moral values, and I haven't regretted it.

Because if attraction to the same gender is not an inborn thing, then sexuality, in general, must all be a choice or learned behaviour right? So then, how did you make the decision to be straight? What made you choose to be attracted to and fall in love with the particular gender you chose to be compatible with?

My moral values and my goals in life helped me make that choice.

See, I can't recall one time in my life where I made any choice in the matter of liking boys. I just did. I liked boys. I had crushes on boys when I was little. I never made any decision to, nor did I ever consider having a crush on a girl.

Well, that's your experience and you're blessed with a simplistic life in that regard, I guess. That's not the experience of everyone else though.

 

[painted wolf]

Actually at two different stages in my life I made a conscious decision in spite of attraction, to stay within heterosexual boundaries. I made this decision based on my moral values, and I haven't regretted it.

Good for you... but my faith has a different set of morals when it comes to this issue... we appreciate LGBT people for who Creator made them to be.

I'm sorry though, that you had to struggle with something as wonderful as love.

wa:do

ps... very few aspects of develop are controlled by single genes... While sexuality may be genetic, there would hardly be a single "gay gene"....
even less likely as research shows things like birth order and the environment in the womb also play a role in gender/sexuality expression.

 

[Kathryn]

Good for you... but my faith has a different set of morals when it comes to this issue... we appreciate LGBT people for who Creator made them to be.

I believe that every human being is made in the image of God. I also believe that we all have human frailties that we struggle with but that God has given us an ideal to strive toward. We all fall short at times and that is what His grace is for.

I'm sorry though, that you had to struggle with something as wonderful as love.

Love isn't always easy and I'm ok with that. Usually doing the right thing is the harder of the two choices - but I believe it's more rewarding in the end.

But that's just my personal opinion.

 

[Smoke]

How 'bout it Smoke? Am I wrong? Did you sit down one day and just decide "you know what? I'm going to be gay today!" ?

I wish I could tell you how many times I decided not to be gay. I'm very happy to be gay, and I wouldn't change it for anything, but it took me a long time, a lot of fighting against it, and a lot of unanswered prayers before I even began to come to terms with it.

It's true, though, that once I did come to terms with it, I made a choice to live honestly, not to live a lonely and celibate life, and not to ruin a good woman's wife with lies.

 

[Comicaze247]

What if my husband had not been single? I would have still found him immensely attractive. Would it have been ok for me to break up his marriage because my hormones and genes screamed out to be with him? It would have been a CHOICE for me NOT to fall in love with him - a choice based on (gasp) MORAL VALUES. So yes, I take full responsibility for my actions when it comes to "love or something like it."

*facepalm*
Really? You're going about it like that?
You were single. Your husband was single too.
Adam is gay. Steve is gay too.
How is that a problem?
You make it sound like homosexuals go up to heterosexuals and turn them homosexual or something.
"What if Steve had been straight? I would have still found him immensely attractive. Would it have been ok for me to turn him homosexual because my hormones and genes screamed out to be with him?"
Do you realize how inane that example of yours sounds?

And I can't believe that, as experienced as you are (I don't wanna say "old"), you don't realize that you can't really control who you fall in love with. Either you fall in love or you don't. The only thing you choose is whether or not you act on those feelings. But then you'd be lying to yourself.

 

[Father Heathen]

What if my husband had not been single? I would have still found him immensely attractive. Would it have been ok for me to break up his marriage because my hormones and genes screamed out to be with him? It would have been a CHOICE for me NOT to fall in love with him - a choice based on (gasp) MORAL VALUES. So yes, I take full responsibility for my actions when it comes to "love or something like it."

Homosexuals have no trouble practicing monogamy and fidelity, either, so what's your point? You speak of moral values, but there is nothing moral about bigotry, willful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty. *Real* moral values are based on logic, honesty, honor, compassion and respect for the rights and liberty of others. You base your so-called "moral values" on a book that forbids eating shrimp and pork, wearing mixed fabrics, talking to menstruating women, working on Sunday and rotating crops, but gives instructions on how to sell ones own daughter as a sex slave ([SIZE=-1]Exodus 21:7-10[/SIZE])...and you actually expect people to take that garbage seriously? I mean really...

That is your opinion, which to me has no use beyond...oh never mind. I really hate to stoop to that level of conversation.

I form my opinions by weighing evidence and logic, so I suppose you have no use for those, either, since they're a threat to your cozy little bubble.

 

[Father Heathen]

Really? Who do you know who claims that?

Nobody. She thinks homosexuals are deliberate degenerates who recklessly lust for the same gender just to spite some invisible, bearded, cloud-dwelling man, at least according to some bronze age goat herders, who I guess know better than modern biologists and psychologists.

 

[Kathryn]

You are totally missing my point - not sure whether that's intentional or not so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Here's the deal: It's not always OK for us to be with people we fall in love with or want to have sex with. Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

And I can't believe that, as experienced as you are (I don't wanna say "old"), you don't realize that you can't really control who you fall in love with. Either you fall in love or you don't. The only thing you choose is whether or not you act on those feelings. But then you'd be lying to yourself.

Gee thanks for not calling me old - since that would be stupid and inaccurate. But yes, you're right, I'm pretty experienced when it comes to love and desire.

Let's play out your "logic." Say I fall in love with my sister's husband. Am I lying to myself if I don't act on my "love" or am I doing the right thing?

The deepest, most mature love sometimes requires great personal sacrifice.

Besides that - falling in love is overrated for the most part. Staying in love is harder - and better.

 

[painted wolf]

So gay couples who stay in love for thirty years are ok then? Especially those that have sacrificed so much under the discrimination of decades past...all for sake of love.

wa:do

 

[Seven]

Hi Kathryn,
I think I understand what you're saying. Would I be correct in saying that you think while people can't choose whether or not they're homosexual, they can choose if and when they act on their desires.
I would agree with you up to this point, but I fail to see how you can equate this decision with the decision to act on sexual desires that would break up a marriage.
Do homosexual desires always inevitably lead to suffering if acted upon? Even if homosexuals can suppress their sexuality, I'm yet to hear a good reason why they should.

 

[Comicaze247]

Gee thanks for not calling me old - since that would be stupid and inaccurate. But yes, you're right, I'm pretty experienced when it comes to love and desire.

Hey, didn't mean to insult you with the "old" comment, which is why I avoided stating that you were. You're actually younger than my parents

You are totally missing my point - not sure whether that's intentional or not so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Here's the deal: It's not always OK for us to be with people we fall in love with or want to have sex with. Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

Agreed. But who gets to determine what's "okay?"

Let's play out your "logic." Say I fall in love with my sister's husband. Am I lying to myself if I don't act on my "love" or am I doing the right thing?

Again, you're providing a different situation where there IS a problem. Adam is gay, Steve is gay. Adam is single, Steve is single. Where's the problem? They're not hurting anyone.
What if your sister's husband was no longer in love with her, and fell in love with you instead? Is it wrong for him to be with someone he no longer loves, or to leave his wife for someone he actually does?
Is it wrong of you to act on those emotions when he isn't in love with your sister anymore? You may think so, but different people will have different answers to this, it's a difficult situation. But because nobody else is either party, they have no right to judge or determine what is the "right" course of action.

The deepest, most mature love sometimes requires great personal sacrifice.

Agreed. But I don't see the sacrifice if a homosexual is with another homosexual.

 

[Father Heathen]

Let's play out your "logic." Say I fall in love with my sister's husband. Am I lying to myself if I don't act on my "love" or am I doing the right thing?

Still having trouble grasping this logic thing, I see. That would be wrong because it wrongs your sister, obviously. But who does homosexuality wrong? No one (again obviously). Reasonable and rational people base right and wrong on real world cause and effect. Caveman scratchings aren't a legitimate reason to repress one's sexual preference.

I know you (and many others) think I'm just big A-hole, but I make it my duty to correct those who wallow in willful ignorance and bigotry. It's my service to the community.

 

[Comicaze247]

I know you (and many others) think I'm just big A-hole, but I make it my duty to correct those who wallow in willful ignorance and bigotry. It's my service to the community.

There's nothing a-hole-ish about valuing facts and logic over opinions.

 

[Smoke]

What if my husband had not been single? I would have still found him immensely attractive. Would it have been ok for me to break up his marriage because my hormones and genes screamed out to be with him? It would have been a CHOICE for me NOT to fall in love with him - a choice based on (gasp) MORAL VALUES. So yes, I take full responsibility for my actions when it comes to "love or something like it."

So, as you're our spokesman for traditional sexuality and the moral failure of gay people who deviate from it, can we safely assume that neither you nor your husband has ever been divorced?

 

[michel]

From:-http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/06/23/GR2008062300060.html

Comparing Brain Scans

A provocative new study has produced more evidence that the brains of homosexual men and women tend to differ from those of heterosexual men and women. This image contains a series of brain scans of homosexual and heterosexual men and women, focusing on a part of the brain involved in processing emotions known as the amygdala. The brains of homosexual men appear more similar to those of heterosexual women than heterosexual men while homosexual women appear more similar to heterosexual men than heterosexual women.

SOURCE: National Academy of Sciences | GRAPHIC: The Washington Post - June 23, 2008




This Story
Brain Study Shows Differences Between Gays, Straights
Article | Is there such a thing as a "gay brain"? And, if so, are some people born with brains that make them more likely to be homosexual? Or do the brains of gay people develop differently in response to experiences?

Whatever the answer is to the above question, the fact remains that a homosexual "lives" with the tendencies and mental atributes of a member of the opposite sex........

 

[Draka]

From:-http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/06/23/GR2008062300060.html

Comparing Brain Scans

A provocative new study has produced more evidence that the brains of homosexual men and women tend to differ from those of heterosexual men and women. This image contains a series of brain scans of homosexual and heterosexual men and women, focusing on a part of the brain involved in processing emotions known as the amygdala. The brains of homosexual men appear more similar to those of heterosexual women than heterosexual men while homosexual women appear more similar to heterosexual men than heterosexual women.

SOURCE: National Academy of Sciences | GRAPHIC: The Washington Post - June 23, 2008




This Story
Brain Study Shows Differences Between Gays, Straights
Article | Is there such a thing as a "gay brain"? And, if so, are some people born with brains that make them more likely to be homosexual? Or do the brains of gay people develop differently in response to experiences?

Whatever the answer is to the above question, the fact remains that a homosexual "lives" with the tendencies and mental atributes of a member of the opposite sex........

Thank you. I have been trying to explain for several years actually, that since emotion and attraction are, like everything else, determined in the brain, then the basis for heterosexuality and homosexuality are both in the brain and have to do with certain parts of the brain and formation rates. I often compare this to being much the same as whether one is right or left handed. While it is "normal" for a person's brain to develop in utero to be dominately left-sided and therefore right-handed, everyonce and a while, about 10% of the time, the part of the brain which is suppose to pick up dominancy stops forming before that is determined, and thus, another equal part of the brain picks it up. Thereby causing left-handedness. If you think about the same process in terms of sexuality and emotional attractions to particular genders being established in certain parts of the brain as well...it all makes sense. For some reason, through no fault, the brain of a boy may develop more like that of a girls and vice versa when it comes to sexuality.

I have literally been saying this for more years than I can remember, but no one seems to want to give it any attention because they are too worked up over this whole "gay gene" nonsense and are so determined that since one can't be found that there is no way that a homosexual can be born homosexual. It's very frustrating.