Apocolypse

[BruceDLimber]

I could make the book of Revelations make it seem as if I'm Jesus.

And you expect me to be impressed by that??!!!

I'm talking about a serious discussion, not your silliness.


Bruce

 

[fallingblood]

And you expect me to be impressed by that??!!!

I'm talking about a serious discussion, not your silliness.


Bruce

Context. Read in context. I simply stated how your idea that someone made a verse by verse rendering of Revelations does not mean that is is good. More so, I am talking seriously; serious Bible scholarship, not religious motivated interpretations that rely on faith and the ignoring of what we know to be true about the Bible. It's alright if you have faith of an idea; however, admit that.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

hmm .. OK are you saying this war would be unseen to men? please explain a little more. i can't understand your conclusion from these verses
.

We can not see air or wind but we see the effects from it.
Jesus and angelic armies are heavenly but we will see the effects of Jesus words on earth such as the verses mentioned at Jeremiah chapter 25.

In ancient times when ancient Israel played false to God and his Word at times God used a political/military 'ax' against them. At one time Israel was in captivity to another nation for 70 years. So what we will see on earth is once again God will use the world's political/military 'ax' against the world's religious sector that has played false to him and his Word.

Revelation pictures that political 'kings' of earth will turn on the world's false religious 'queen' [Rev 17vs2,17; 18v7,8] or world's false religious sector because she has run afoul proving herself false to what the Bible really teaches.

There is a final signal, so to speak, mentioned at 1st Thess. 5vs2,3 that when they [world powers that be] are saying Peace and Security or Peace and Safety then sudden destruction will come to the world's false religious queen.
That crying of Peace is a precursor to what Jesus called a great tribulation on earth [Matt 24v21] that will bring a hard and swift end to all the badness on earth at Armageddon or God's war against all evil.

The United Nations sees a hauntingly dangerous religious climate brewing in the world today, such as religious terrorism destabilizing society, and with backing the UN can be strengthened to become the 'ax' that God will use to do away with all troublesome religious organizations before Jesus establishes Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

 

[AxisMundi]

that would be very strange war; if you lose you become one of your enemies

.

Imagine the employment opportunities opening up after your former friends and family finish devouring your former friends and family.

 

[AxisMundi]

We can not see air or wind but we see the effects from it.

We cannot "see" it certainly, but we know it quite inimatly, from the chemical composition of air to the meterological reasons behind wind.

A very poor example to use.

The United Nations sees a hauntingly dangerous religious climate brewing in the world today, such as religious terrorism destabilizing society, and with backing the UN can be strengthened to become the 'ax' that God will use to do away with all troublesome religious organizations before Jesus establishes Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

Secular law is what established the Unites States, and what has helped keep relgiious fundamentalism at bay despite their best efforts to encroach on our Founding Principles and erode them to the point of theonomy.

Religion is teh casue of much of the world's woes today where conflict is concerned.

Relgiion is certainly NOT the answer to those conflicts.

 

[BruceDLimber]

... ignoring of what we know to be true about the Bible.

What "we" know?!

I suspect what WE know differs considerably from each other!

And I've never denied I have faith, please note, so it's equally silly of you to accuse me of that.

Bruce

 

[fallingblood]

What "we" know?!

I suspect what WE know differs considerably from each other!

And I've never denied I have faith, please note, so it's equally silly of you to accuse me of that.

Bruce

Your beliefs rely on faith. That's alright. However, don't think you can prove them simply because you have faith they are true.

Also, when I said we, I used it in a general term. Not necessarily you and me, but what has been revealed through research and scholarly work.

 

[BruceDLimber]

No problem: it's not my role in life to prove any given religion to anyone else!

Rather, it's every individual's right and duty to investigate the various religions on his or her own, determine where the truth lies, and follow that! (This is what we call Individual Investigation Truth.)

Peace,

Bruce

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Secular law is what established the Unites States, and what has helped keep relgiious fundamentalism at bay despite their best efforts to encroach on our Founding Principles and erode them to the point of theonomy.
Religion is teh casue of much of the world's woes today where conflict is concerned.
Relgiion is certainly NOT the answer to those conflicts.

Exactly. 'Religion' is Not the answer to those conflicts.
When I say religion I mean world-wide religion that has run afoul proving herself false to God and his Word.

Not only today, or our time frame, has religion caused much of the world's woes where conflict is concerned. She was and is the main cause.

Back in Ezekiel's day [chap7-9] when the people played false to God, then God's answer was to use the political/military 'ax' against them.
So it should come as no surprise that God will once again use the political 'kings' or rulers as an 'ax', so to speak,
against such a fake, false and fraudulent world's religious sector for who has proven herself a backer of the political world and not God's Word.
It should come as quite a shock that the political world she backs will turn on her.
Since she has destabilized society with such things as religious terrorism, etc. with backing the United Nations can be strengthened to turn on her.
What's to stop the UN from being the answer ?

 

[AxisMundi]

Exactly. 'Religion' is Not the answer to those conflicts.
When I say religion I mean world-wide religion that has run afoul proving herself false to God and his Word.

Not only today, or our time frame, has religion caused much of the world's woes where conflict is concerned. She was and is the main cause.

Back in Ezekiel's day [chap7-9] when the people played false to God, then God's answer was to use the political/military 'ax' against them.
So it should come as no surprise that God will once again use the political 'kings' or rulers as an 'ax', so to speak,
against such a fake, false and fraudulent world's religious sector for who has proven herself a backer of the political world and not God's Word.
It should come as quite a shock that the political world she backs will turn on her.
Since she has destabilized society with such things as religious terrorism, etc. with backing the United Nations can be strengthened to turn on her.
What's to stop the UN from being the answer ?

Yeah, yeah, sure sure, we ALL know you have the solution and the perfect religion. :no:

Perhaps some day you will notice that you theospam from one of those scriptures that urges world conflict.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Perhaps some day you will notice that you theospam from one of those scriptures that urges world conflict.

Which Scripture urges world conflict?

Wasn't Jesus politically neutral ?
Did Jesus followers become involved in the issues of the day between the Romans and the Jew or rather weren't they neutral?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Going by that a churches tax exempt status applies to all Constitutionally recognized religions, there are several factors attributed to the fall of the Roman Empire (Of which the fall of the church is not one of them), and that it's generally accepted, even by Biblical scholars, that the Book of Revelations was wrote about events surrounding the Roman Empire during the time it was wrote, I really doubt this apocalypse will happen.

 

[AxisMundi]

Which Scripture urges world conflict?

Wasn't Jesus politically neutral ?
Did Jesus followers become involved in the issues of the day between the Romans and the Jew or rather weren't they neutral?

Firstly, I'm not going to fall into the bible quote trap. It is biblical concepts that drove England, Spain, and France to colonize the world, and such ideals as Manifest Destiny that saw the US pushed clear tot he pacific and the eradication of native cultures and relgiions.

Secondly, herein lies the meat of this issue, The vast majority of Christians aren't, they are "Paulists".

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Firstly, I'm not going to fall into the bible quote trap. It is biblical concepts that drove England, Spain, and France to colonize the world, and such ideals as Manifest Destiny that saw the US pushed clear tot he pacific and the eradication of native cultures and relgiions.
Secondly, herein lies the meat of this issue, The vast majority of Christians aren't, they are "Paulists".

Jesus too knew the vast majority of Christians are really Christian in name only as Matthew wrote in chapter seven.

Is it Biblical concepts or really Cleric concepts with a political agenda that drove so-called Christians to do what they did? Many clergy have 'put' words into Jesus mouth that never came out of his mouth as if they are some sort of holy ventriloquist instead of 'listening' to the words that came out of Jesus mouth.

I think it was Churchill that mentioned about looking back as far as you can to see the future. If we look back at mankind's religious family tree we find the base for the world's religions have roots in ancient Babylon. Those pagan religious concepts and ideas began to take root after first-Century Christianity ended. The clergy then started to mix and blend those pagan ideas and practices making them into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great. That is why we similarities overlapping in the world's religious sector today.
So isn't the meat of the issue, not first-century Christianity, but really that especially Christendom [so-called Christianity] has really run afoul playing false to God?

 

[AxisMundi]

Jesus too knew the vast majority of Christians are really Christian in name only as Matthew wrote in chapter seven.

Is it Biblical concepts or really Cleric concepts with a political agenda that drove so-called Christians to do what they did? Many clergy have 'put' words into Jesus mouth that never came out of his mouth as if they are some sort of holy ventriloquist instead of 'listening' to the words that came out of Jesus mouth.

I think it was Churchill that mentioned about looking back as far as you can to see the future. If we look back at mankind's religious family tree we find the base for the world's religions have roots in ancient Babylon. Those pagan religious concepts and ideas began to take root after first-Century Christianity ended. The clergy then started to mix and blend those pagan ideas and practices making them into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great. That is why we similarities overlapping in the world's religious sector today.
So isn't the meat of the issue, not first-century Christianity, but really that especially Christendom [so-called Christianity] has really run afoul playing false to God?

Firstly, note the qutation marks around "Paulist" above, it is a paraphrase meaning that the vast majority of Christians follow a Pauline doctrine and not that attributed to Christ's.

Second, whicher\ver doctrine they follow,they still actively worship said Christ figure. THAT is the only criteria for defining a Christian. Any attempt to say that a person "isn't a true Christian" is nothing more a No True Scotsman Fallacy.

Thirdly, I suggest you look further back, considering we have hard, physical evidences of religions dating back as far as 75,000 years old.

The human race first worshipped within Shamanistic/Animistic belief structures. Human like deities are a rather recent evolution within the timespan of modern human beings.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Firstly, note the qutation marks around "Paulist" above, it is a paraphrase meaning that the vast majority of Christians follow a Pauline doctrine and not that attributed to Christ's.
Second, whicher\ver doctrine they follow,they still actively worship said Christ figure. THAT is the only criteria for defining a Christian. Any attempt to say that a person "isn't a true Christian" is nothing more a No True Scotsman Fallacy.
.

Firstly, it is the vast majority of so-called Christians or Christian "In Name Only"
follow 'tradition or customs' Not outlined in Scripture.

Secondly, according to Scripture the criteria is set at: John 13vs34,35.
Jesus plainly and clearly stated a "new commandment" at John 13vs34.35.
Jesus said his genuine followers would be recognized by the love they have among themselves. Most of Christendom or so-called Christianity do not have that Christ-like love as defined at 1st Cor 13vs4-6 which is evident by the wars carried on "In His Name".

Since Jesus set the standard, wouldn't Jesus have the right to say that a person "isn't a true Christian"?

 

[AxisMundi]

Firstly, it is the vast majority of so-called Christians or Christian "In Name Only"
follow 'tradition or customs' Not outlined in Scripture.

Secondly, according to Scripture the criteria is set at: John 13vs34,35.
Jesus plainly and clearly stated a "new commandment" at John 13vs34.35.
Jesus said his genuine followers would be recognized by the love they have among themselves. Most of Christendom or so-called Christianity do not have that Christ-like love as defined at 1st Cor 13vs4-6 which is evident by the wars carried on "In His Name".

Since Jesus set the standard, wouldn't Jesus have the right to say that a person "isn't a true Christian"?

And jsut like you, every other Christian claims to have the "one true way to worship Christ".

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And jsut like you, every other Christian claims to have the "one true way to worship Christ".

Apparently even Satan claims to be right.

Who did Christ worship? John 4vs23,24; 20v17B; Rev 3v12

Claiming and being are not the same.

Jesus claimed to be right, and if one places one's beliefs along side of Jesus teachings and compares them, then one can discern if compatible.

Didn't Jesus forewarn us 'many' would come 'in his name' but proving false?
-Matthew chapter seven.

 

[AxisMundi]

Apparently even Satan claims to be right.

Who did Christ worship? John 4vs23,24; 20v17B; Rev 3v12

Claiming and being are not the same.

Jesus claimed to be right, and if one places one's beliefs along side of Jesus teachings and compares them, then one can discern if compatible.

Didn't Jesus forewarn us 'many' would come 'in his name' but proving false?
-Matthew chapter seven.

You can try and jsutify your belief that you have a bead on Christ, but liek I ahve said, you and over two billion other people too.

This is one there is only one criteria for catagorizing a person a Christian.

"An active belief in the life and deity of Jesus Christ and an active worship of him."

That's it. No more.

Mother Teresa was a Christian, but so is Joseph Kony.

To claim the latter isn't since he leads a Christian terrorist group in Uganda is simply a No True Scotsman fallacy.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Isn't there a difference between Christian and Christian in name only?

Didn't Jesus forewarn 'many' would come in his name but prove false?
Matthew chapter seven.