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Apostolic Fathers Against TULIP

  • Thread starter angellous_evangellous
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
I have collected a series of quotations from the apostolic fathers that are explicitly against Calvin's TULIP doctrines. All of the apostolic fathers - the Christian leaders who wrote during the writing of the New Testament - are explicitly against every item in TULIP. These citations clearly demonstrate the alien nature of Calvin's doctrine to Christianity.

The apostolic fathers are critical because some of their writings were included in the earliest editions of the New Testament that were circulated in the churches. They were treated as part of the New Testament by many Christians, used in worship, and treated as inspired... some of them are still included in New Testament canons.

All of these writings are available at www.earlychristianwritings.com and all are foundational for Christian orthodoxy.

If you reject the teachings of the apostolic fathers, you will have to explain why you accept the New Testament that they preserved for you.

Enjoy.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
1 Clement 50.5

"Blessed are we, dear friends, if we continue to keep God's commandments in the harmony of love, that our sins may be forgiven us through love."
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
2 Clement

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, inasmuchas we have received no small oppotunity to repent, let us, while we still have time, turn again to God who has called us, while we still have one who accepts us. For if we renounce these pleasures, and conquer our soul by refusing to fulfill its evil desires, we will share in Jesus' mercy. But you know that the day of judgment is coming as a blazing furnace and some of the heavens will dissolve and the whole earth will be like lead and a melting fire -- and the works of men, the secret and the public, will be made known....

Let us repent, therefore, with our whole heart, lest any of us (Christians) perish..."
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Ignatius to the Smyrneans

"Those (Chrsitians) who deny the good gift of God (the Eucharist) perish in their contentiousness. It would be more to their advantage to love, in order that they might also rise up (from the dead in the last day)."
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Polycarp's Epistle to the Philippians

"But he who raised him from the dead will raise us also if we do his will and follow his commandments and love the things he loved while avoiding every kind of unrighteousness, greed, love of money, slandar, and false testimony, not repaying evil for evil or insult for insult, but instead remembering what the Lord said as he taught, "Do not judge, that you may not be judged, forgive, and you will be forgiven, show mercy and you will be shown mercy; with the measure you use it will be measured back to you; and blessed are the poor for theirs is the kingdom of God."
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
The Didache:

16.2 Gather together frequently, seeking the things that benefit your souls, for all the time you have believed will be of no use to you if you are not perfect in the last time.

16.5 Then all humankind will come over the firey test, and 'many will fall away' and perish; but 'those who endure to the end' (quoting Matthew 24.10) will be saved.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
The Epistle of Barnabas 4.12

The Lord will judge the world without partiality. Each person will receive according to what he has done. If he is good (which Calvin denies explicitly), his righteousness will precede him; if he is evil, the wages of doing evil will go before him. (13) Let us never fall asleep (die) in our sins, as if being called (Calvin's favorite word) was an excuse to rest, lest the evil ruler gain power over us and thrust us out of the kingdom of the Lord"
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
The Epistle of Barnabas 5.5:

"... a man deserves to perish if, having knowledge of the way of righteousness, he ensnares himself in a way of darkness..."
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
The Epistle of Barnabas 21.1:

"It is good, therefore, after learning all the Lord's commandments which are written here, to walk in them. For the one who does these things will be glorified in the kingdom of God; the one who does the opposites will perish together with his works. This is why there is a resurrection, this is why there is recompense."
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
From the Shepherd of Hermas:

Vision 2.6.5

For the Master has sworn by his own glory regarding his elect, that if sin still occurs, now that this day has been set as a limit, they will not find salvation, for repentence for the righteous is at an end; the days of repentance for all the saints are over, although for the heathen there is possibility for repentence until the last day.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
angellous_evangellous said:
1 Clement 50.5

"Blessed are we, dear friends, if we continue to keep God's commandments in the harmony of love, that our sins may be forgiven us through love."
Click to expand...

Hmmm, keep the commandments...I guess there is no need for forgiveness then is there? Just keep the commandments.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
angellous_evangellous said:
Polycarp's Epistle to the Philippians

"But he who raised him from the dead will raise us also if we do his will and follow his commandments and love the things he loved while avoiding every kind of unrighteousness, greed, love of money, slandar, and false testimony, not repaying evil for evil or insult for insult, but instead remembering what the Lord said as he taught, "Do not judge, that you may not be judged, forgive, and you will be forgiven, show mercy and you will be shown mercy; with the measure you use it will be measured back to you; and blessed are the poor for theirs is the kingdom of God."
Click to expand...

Same point.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
angellous_evangellous said:
The Epistle of Barnabas 4.12

The Lord will judge the world without partiality. Each person will receive according to what he has done. If he is good (which Calvin denies explicitly), his righteousness will precede him; if he is evil, the wages of doing evil will go before him. (13) Let us never fall asleep (die) in our sins, as if being called (Calvin's favorite word) was an excuse to rest, lest the evil ruler gain power over us and thrust us out of the kingdom of the Lord"
Click to expand...

..As does the Bible. You know...from the 4 bad nones in Romans...."there are none righteous....
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
sandy whitelinger said:
One of your best and most thoughtful replies.
Click to expand...

One of the few that you've been able to interact with. :yes:
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
sandy whitelinger said:
Hmmm, keep the commandments...I guess there is no need for forgiveness then is there? Just keep the commandments.
Click to expand...

The text that you were responding to itself highlights the need for forgiveness:

1 Clement 50.5

"Blessed are we, dear friends, if we continue to keep God's commandments in the harmony of love, that our sins may be forgiven us through love."

The fathers together testify that we are in need of God's forgiveness, but it is tempered by God's justice. We are not "saved" at a moment in time (like praying a prayer or being pre-determined by God for salvation) that precludes all ethics - that is, after the "salvation event" one is not "saved" no matter what the person does.

The person is "being saved," working out their salvation with good works, and in risk of losing it due to behavior. God's forgiveness is not cheap.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
sandy whitelinger said:
Same point.
Click to expand...

Quite so... both texts highlight the need for forgiveness, which you completely ignore.

Polycarp's Epistle to the Philippians

"But he who raised him from the dead will raise us also if we do his will and follow his commandments and love the things he loved while avoiding every kind of unrighteousness, greed, love of money, slandar, and false testimony, not repaying evil for evil or insult for insult, but instead remembering what the Lord said as he taught, "Do not judge, that you may not be judged, forgive, and you will be forgiven, show mercy and you will be shown mercy; with the measure you use it will be measured back to you; and blessed are the poor for theirs is the kingdom of God."
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
angellous_evangellous said:
The text that you were responding to itself highlights the need for forgiveness:
Click to expand...
1 Clement 50.5

"Blessed are we, dear friends, if we continue to keep God's commandments in the harmony of love, that our sins may be forgiven us through love."

The fathers together testify that we are in need of God's forgiveness, but it is tempered by God's justice. We are not "saved" at a moment in time (like praying a prayer or being pre-determined by God for salvation) that precludes all ethics - that is, after the "salvation event" one is not "saved" no matter what the person does.

The person is "being saved," working out their salvation with good works, and in risk of losing it due to behavior. God's forgiveness is not cheap.
Click to expand...

That is only apparent from the quote offered in your mind since it clearly states that blessing comes from keeping the commandments. There is no mention of what forgivness of sin either entails or implies...at least from the quote offered
 
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