Apple vs the Government

[Revoltingest]

You know it's satire though, right?

Shhhhhhhhhhh!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm gonna take this time to gloat, and point the obvious, that it didn't take "millions" or "billions" of years, it didn't even take one. I am by no means a computer safety or hacker guru, but clearly people are severely underestimating hackers and putting an alarming amount of faith in the security of modern devices. If it's connected to the internet, wi-fi, or any such signal, it isn't safe. It may be "safer" than some, but there will always be those who can let themselves in through the back door.

 

[freethinker44]

I'm gonna take this time to gloat, and point the obvious, that it didn't take "millions" or "billions" of years, it didn't even take one. I am by no means a computer safety or hacker guru, but clearly people are severely underestimating hackers and putting an alarming amount of faith in the security of modern devices. If it's connected to the internet, wi-fi, or any such signal, it isn't safe. It may be "safer" than some, but there will always be those who can let themselves in through the back door.

I was unaware of the scope of their problem. I thought they were trying to crack the encryption, which would take billions of years, but apparently they just needed to get past the lock screen?
Something feels a little off about this whole thing. I find it really hard to believe the government couldn't unlock the device on their own.
I heard a conspiracy theory that kind of made sense though, that they were trying hoping to take it to the Supreme Court and get precedent to be able to search devices without a warrant.
And then the public mostly supports Apple and just like they figured it out on their own?
I'm not one to fall for conspiracies, but it does make more sense than "we're the most powerful government in the world and we can't do something any teenager can do."

 

[Thief]

heard last night on the radio...an outside source will assist in breaking the lock....

but I kinda thought that criminals lose their rights when they cross the line and do the crime....

so now the question is ....will Uncle Sam continue to monitor cell phones (yes he does)
and do so more intently....now that he has a better key to your privacy?

 

[Altfish]

Is it just me who thinks that Apple gave the US Government the hacking key and told the powers that be to stay schtum and then pretend they got in themselves.

 

[Revoltingest]

Is it just me who thinks that Apple gave the US Government the hacking key and told the powers that be to stay schtum and then pretend they got in themselves.

I blame @Smart_Guy ....oops, wrong thread (again)!
Anyway, I'd hate it if Apple playted Uncle Sam's game as you suggest.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Is it just me who thinks that Apple gave the US Government the hacking key and told the powers that be to stay schtum and then pretend they got in themselves.

I see no reason to suspect this is the case. We are talking about a computer, not a magical box that can only be opened when the stars align correctly, under the light of a full moon, with a range of magical reagents and esoteric chants that have to be translated from barely-existing ancient tomes. And the government is known for hiring hackers to find security issues in a system.

 

[Altfish]

I see no reason to suspect this is the case. We are talking about a computer, not a magical box that can only be opened when the stars align correctly, under the light of a full moon, with a range of magical reagents and esoteric chants that have to be translated from barely-existing ancient tomes. And the government is known for hiring hackers to find security issues in a system.

So, if it is relatively easy to get in and it was always going to happen. Why the false outrage by Apple?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So, if it is relatively easy to get in and it was always going to happen. Why the false outrage by Apple?

It's not that it's relatively easy, it's just methods hadn't yet been developed to exploit, break, and hack the iPhone. I also wouldn't say there is any false outrage, but rather misplaced, because when someone is determined to get in (especially with consumer electronic devices) it's only a matter of time before someone finds a way how, then another, and another, and before too long there are finely-honed methods to beat any future software updates that will allow people to gain root access and do whatever they want. And it's more of a money thing, because once someone has root access, they can essentially make their device into whatever they want, adding custom firmwares, reprogramming the device to serve other purposes, and even making it possible to swap out hardware. You can also toggle certain features and access all files, giving you even more control over what your device sends out. Apple can cry all they want, but as a major tech company they should have known and assumed that eventually someone would figure out how to do such a thing. I don't know why they didn't just consider it essentially done once the FBI was determined to find a way in.

 

[Altfish]

It's not that it's relatively easy, it's just methods hadn't yet been developed to exploit, break, and hack the iPhone. I also wouldn't say there is any false outrage, but rather misplaced, because when someone is determined to get in (especially with consumer electronic devices) it's only a matter of time before someone finds a way how, then another, and another, and before too long there are finely-honed methods to beat any future software updates that will allow people to gain root access and do whatever they want. And it's more of a money thing, because once someone has root access, they can essentially make their device into whatever they want, adding custom firmwares, reprogramming the device to serve other purposes, and even making it possible to swap out hardware. You can also toggle certain features and access all files, giving you even more control over what your device sends out. Apple can cry all they want, but as a major tech company they should have known and assumed that eventually someone would figure out how to do such a thing. I don't know why they didn't just consider it essentially done once the FBI was determined to find a way in.

I think that is my point, if the FBI and Apple both knew they'd eventually get in. So why prolong the inevitable? Why not quietly give the FBI the way in (Or even Apple break in themselves and hand over the memory card details) ?
I don't see what Apple's logic was. They have just succeeding in proving that it is defeatable, therefore every hacker in the world will now be trying to copy the FBI.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think that is my point, if the FBI and Apple both knew they'd eventually get in. So why prolong the inevitable? Why not quietly give the FBI the way in (Or even Apple break in themselves and hand over the memory card details) ?
I don't see what Apple's logic was. They have just succeeding in proving that it is defeatable, therefore every hacker in the world will now be trying to copy the FBI.

IMO, it was just a hopeful marketing scheme and were hoping the government would get frustrated over difficulties of getting in, something Apple could have milked the hell out of for advertisement.

 

[Altfish]

IMO, it was just a hopeful marketing scheme and were hoping the government would get frustrated over difficulties of getting in, something Apple could have milked the hell out of for advertisement.

But it has backfired on them, couldn't happen to a nicer company

 

[Mister Emu]

I'm gonna take this time to gloat, and point the obvious, that it didn't take "millions" or "billions" of years, it didn't even take one.

I have two questions for your gloating:
Did they crack the encryption algorithm?
The last drive I encrypted was mixed algorithm via TC and a 35 character passcode with letters, #s, and special characters. How long, in your opinion, would it take to crack my drive?

I feel as though we were talking about different things.

I was wrong on the effects of the hardware key and I though it had a secure enclave, which it did not.

If it's connected to the internet, wi-fi, or any such signal, it isn't safe

Oh, so we were discussing different things. Of course something connected to the internet isn't fully safe. And neither is any computer you boot which you cannot verify as tamper-free.

Is it just me who thinks that Apple gave the US Government the hacking key and told the powers that be to stay schtum and then pretend they got in themselves.

I would suggest it is just you. The iPhone had/has several avenues of attack and vulnerabilities including OS updates, limited numeric passcodes, etc. Even the hardware key only ensures that it requires a technical lab to maximize brute-force efficiency if you want to clone the drive across multiple machines.

What this was about, in my opinion, was the legal precedent for the government to demand security holes in software. That way they could then go to any developer of security and tell them where they want a vulnerability.

So, if it is relatively easy to get in and it was always going to happen. Why the false outrage by Apple?

See above, this wasn't about one iPhone or even the iPhone in general, but about whether the government can demand crippled software.