Appropriation and Generation

[Fireside_Hindu]

Namaste,

I was linked to this interesting article discussing the difference in perception Indians have of westerners who adopt certain Indian cultural traditions depending on the generation they are in. I'd like to hear thoughts from Indians both young and old on this topic as I have been reading about it a lot lately.

http://www.xojane.com/issues/my-indian-parents-are-fans-of-cultural-appropriation

I will say it does help explain why sometimes Indians my age or younger tend to give me the cold shoulder at temple, whereas the older generation seems overly enthused to see me. Thoughts?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I think at the end of the article she said it, "Our parents definitely had their struggles, but they never compromised their cultural integrity. They proudly donned their saris and kurtas, brought their food in curry-stained tupperware to work without a care of what anyone else will think."

That was brave, but if the American Indian young people try to deceive (themselves and others), hide their identity, and pose not to be what they are, then they will surely have a conflict in their mind. I have a niece in NJ who might be struggling with this with her younger daughter. The girl did not have much interaction with the family here and perhaps does not remember much Hindi.

 

[SomeRandom]

Perhaps one such youngster can offer a perspective?
I'm a born and bred Aussie. More at home round the BBQ with my dad's mates (whom I look up to) sharing some drinks and trading affectionate insults than in the Hindu community (though they are very welcoming people.)
Having said that, like many with "one foot in each world" I struggle with self identify, even years after adolescence. Though I can appear aloof and apathetic about my heritage at times, I still have a great amount of pride in it and often seek approval.
In contrast my mother adapted. Embraced the Aussie lifestyle but she had a clear foundation for her heritage which I lacked (through no fault of her own.) I grew up in a melting pot cut off from my family traditions, with only second hand accounts from my mother to gauge tradition and culture.
So in a way this sort of forced me to become protective of what heritage I did have. Like it was all I had to cling to. Call it insecurity, call it a desperate way to keep hold of my heritage or simply a kid without solid grounding trying to figure it all out as I go.

 

[Valjean]

Isn't imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?

 

[Aupmanyav]

More at home round the BBQ with my dad's mates (whom I look up to) sharing some drinks and trading affectionate insults than in the Hindu community (though they are very welcoming people.) .. Though I can appear aloof and apathetic about my heritage at times, I still have a great amount of pride in it and often seek approval. .. So in a way this sort of forced me to become protective of what heritage I did have. Like it was all I had to cling to. Call it insecurity, call it a desperate way to keep hold of my heritage or simply a kid without solid grounding trying to figure it all out as I go.

Hindus in India too relish their BBQ and a glass of beer or liquor. Why be apathetic to your heritage, be proud of both if you have two. I have the Aryan heritage and the indigenous heritage (I hear some hollering around), and I am proud of both. Why do I have to seek approval, I do not need any. A bit of insecurity, but then I did not face your situation.

Kashmiri Kabargah: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Kabargah.JPG/640px-Kabargah.JPG

Isn't imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?

Why should we imitate any one?

 

[SomeRandom]

Hindus in India too relish their BBQ and a glass of beer or liquor. Why be apathetic to your heritage, be proud of both if you have two. I have the Aryan heritage and the indigenous heritage (I hear some hollering around), and I am proud of both. Why do I have to seek approval, I do not need any. A bit of insecurity, but then I did not face your situation.

Because I am too removed from my heritage to properly understand it. I know more nuances about it than my friends. But it's not the same. It's like a foreign world to me. Familiar in a way but not so. If that makes sense?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, it does. As I said, I was never in your situation. And good that you are here, where people can tell you about that.

For example, the Amarnath Yatra in Kashmir. There is always a danger of terrorists, the army every year has to make special arrangement for safety of the pilgrims. But still hundreds of thousand (between 2 lacs and 3 lacs, I suppose) trek to its icy heights, young, old, and children. And there are people all through the trek ready to provide you whatever you desire to eat. Milk, lassi, rabri, jalebis, puris, chhole, idli, dosa, vada; name anything and it will be available there, free of cost, in whatever quantity that you want. Though it is tough in heat and humidity in the Gangetic plains at this time but still hundreds of thousands of people from all locations will walk to Haridwar or Sultanganj in Bihar, where they will collect the water from River Ganges to bathe the Shiva lingas at the temples of their choice (Baidyanath Dham in Jharkhand). Oh surely, the people here also are served by philanthropic groups. Nothing deters them, not even death on road, or stampedes in temples. They are strong in faith.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Perhaps one such youngster can offer a perspective?
I'm a born and bred Aussie. More at home round the BBQ with my dad's mates (whom I look up to) sharing some drinks and trading affectionate insults than in the Hindu community (though they are very welcoming people.)
Having said that, like many with "one foot in each world" I struggle with self identify, even years after adolescence. Though I can appear aloof and apathetic about my heritage at times, I still have a great amount of pride in it and often seek approval.
In contrast my mother adapted. Embraced the Aussie lifestyle but she had a clear foundation for her heritage which I lacked (through no fault of her own.) I grew up in a melting pot cut off from my family traditions, with only second hand accounts from my mother to gauge tradition and culture.
So in a way this sort of forced me to become protective of what heritage I did have. Like it was all I had to cling to. Call it insecurity, call it a desperate way to keep hold of my heritage or simply a kid without solid grounding trying to figure it all out as I go.

Thank you for the response. In your case, how do you feel about non-indians taking a strong interest in Indian culture beyond the academic? When you see Caucasian Aussies wearing bindis(or taking on other attributes) what is your gut reaction?

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

I think at the end of the article she said it, "Our parents definitely had their struggles, but they never compromised their cultural integrity. They proudly donned their saris and kurtas, brought their food in curry-stained tupperware to work without a care of what anyone else will think."

That was brave, but if the American Indian young people try to deceive (themselves and others), hide their identity, and pose not to be what they are, then they will surely have a conflict in their mind. I have a niece in NJ who might be struggling with this with her younger daughter. The girl did not have much interaction with the family here and perhaps does not remember much Hindi.

Thanks for your response.

I have heard from a friend that Indians living in India seem to really enjoy it when Indian culture gets picked up by others and enjoyed in other parts of the world. He sys they only thing they dislike is when the stereotypes are negative. (he used the Indiana Jones example). Do you find that's true?

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Isn't imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?

That is certainly one side of the argument. The problem might arise when those doing the imitating have a history of systematically making they group they borrow from feel badly about expressing their own culture.

 

[Aupmanyav]

When you see Caucasian Aussies wearing bindis(or taking on other attributes) what is your gut reaction?

Welcome. Not necessarily become Hindu, but thanks for trying to know about the billion of us, our culture and our philosophies. We share the blue planet with you.

He sys they only thing they dislike is when the stereotypes are negative. (he used the Indiana Jones example). Do you find that's true?

We have our negatives and we realize them. We are trying to improve the situation. Some of the traditions are very ancient, it takes time to handle them. Some of the problems have arisen because we abandoned the old traditions. Politics is one of the reasons why some traditions persist (for example caste). It is never black and white, there are many shades of grey too. These are my humble views.

 

[SomeRandom]

Thank you for the response. In your case, how do you feel about non-indians taking a strong interest in Indian culture beyond the academic? When you see Caucasian Aussies wearing bindis(or taking on other attributes) what is your gut reaction?

Gut reaction is honestly offended. And it takes a lot to offend me. But once I calm down I can shrug it off. Don't know about any other youngster.

 

[StarryNightshade]

Non-Indian Hindu here, so maybe my response means nothing, but here goes:

When I move out on my own, I'm finally going to cut my hair into a sihka. I'm also going to try and wear tilak everyday if I can.

Is that cultural appropriation?

Well, yeah, it kinda is. However, I always try and make a point that it doesn't have to necessarily be a bad thing (I would argue that it's misapproprotation that people are genuinely more offended by). By adopting Hinduism as my faith, that inherently comes with a good bit of the culture; therefore, I'm appropriating something that I wasn't born into. However, since I did my research to know all the various significances, it's not misappropriation. For example, I don't walk around in dhoti 24/7, because I know that the majority of Hindus (especially in the west) don't wear traditional clothing that often. I might wear it to a special event or holiday, but I actually don't like wearing dhoti at all. I find it way too uncomfortable.

Also, about the old vs young generation thing, I personally don't like the attention from either. I don't like being doted over by a bunch of aunties and uncles about how I'm "better at Hinduism" than their grandchildren. I also don't like the generally awful attitude from younger Hindus who think that they're "better Hindus" just because they were born into the faith. Even if they only go to temple, because they were forced to.

I go to temple to be with God; no one else.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Thank you to everyone who has expressed their views so far. It's very interesting and educational for me.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Also, about the old vs young generation thing, I personally don't like the attention from either. I don't like being doted over by a bunch of aunties and uncles about how I'm "better at Hinduism" than their grandchildren. I also don't like the generally awful attitude from younger Hindus who think that they're "better Hindus" just because they were born into the faith. Even if they only go to temple, because they were forced to.

I go to temple to be with God; no one else.

I can relate to your feeling on this. Older Indians often praise me a little too loudly in front of others at temple and I"m not really sure what to say. I try to down play it when I can without being rude. I understand the younger generation's need to feel protective of things they have seen get misused in the passed and it's here that I think maybe as Caucasian Hindus we have to accept that we're going to need to "earn" some things even if it seems unfair. We also have the choice of shrugging it off and deciding that we can't please everyone. It depends on the situation I guess.

 

[StarryNightshade]

I understand the younger generation's need to feel protective of things they have seen get misused in the passed and it's here that I think maybe as Caucasian Hindus we have to accept that we're going to need to "earn" some things even if it seems unfair.

I suppose so, but can it be safety said that one is really *that* protective of their cultural identity when they generally don't really like partaking in the culture in the first place?

Again, this is only in my experience, but so many younger Indians often times say that they think their parent's faith is silly/stupid/superstitious or that western culture is superior; only showing pride around Diwali or when an "outsider" (ie: generally white Hindus) shows up to temple or cultural events. Even if they don't really care about it in the 1st place, it is the first defense to show how they are good Hindus by merely just being born one.

Again, just for the sake of discussion and in my experience. Nothing definitive, of course.

 

[Goblin]

as much as this bothers traditionalists.
someone doesnt have to be indian at all to be hindu.

there are tons of americans converting to hinduism every year.

all someone has to do to be a hindu is believe in hindu teachings as a foundation of spiritual beliefs

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

I suppose so, but can it be safety said that one is really *that* protective of their cultural identity when they generally don't really like partaking in the culture in the first place?

Again, this is only in my experience, but so many younger Indians often times say that they think their parent's faith is silly/stupid/superstitious or that western culture is superior; only showing pride around Diwali or when an "outsider" (ie: generally white Hindus) shows up to temple or cultural events. Even if they don't really care about it in the 1st place, it is the first defense to show how they are good Hindus by merely just being born one.

Again, just for the sake of discussion and in my experience. Nothing definitive, of course.

I find this frustrating as well, so I can appreciate your experience.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

I suppose so, but can it be safety said that one is really *that* protective of their cultural identity when they generally don't really like partaking in the culture in the first place?

Again, this is only in my experience, but so many younger Indians often times say that they think their parent's faith is silly/stupid/superstitious or that western culture is superior; only showing pride around Diwali or when an "outsider" (ie: generally white Hindus) shows up to temple or cultural events. Even if they don't really care about it in the 1st place, it is the first defense to show how they are good Hindus by merely just being born one.

Again, just for the sake of discussion and in my experience. Nothing definitive, of course.

Perhaps one of our resident Indian Hindus can respond to this?

 

[Aupmanyav]

as much as this bothers traditionalists, someone doesnt have to be indian at all to be hindu.

all someone has to do to be a hindu is believe in hindu teachings as a foundation of spiritual beliefs

You are right. They are not really tradionalists. They are just backward-looking people. Some non-Indians have beautiful understanding of what Hinduism (or Buddhism) is. Take for example, Ratiben. There are others as well who have taken some vows and will come back after some time. I dare not compare myself with them.