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Are all atheists facing Hell?

Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Katzpur said:
Yeah, but what is "reasonable" or "warranted" and what isn't is kind of a subjective thing, wouldn't you agree? I personally believe that any belief that may cause someone to do harm to another is wrong and dangerous. Period. On the other hand, I can be tolerant of even the most outlandish (IMO) beliefs as long as no one is hurt by them.
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So, you would agree that it is wrong and dangerous to excise any part of a young female's genitalia on the basis of a belief that God thinks it's a good idea? How about that of a young male's?

Would you, on the basis of a belief vote to constrain some aspect of another human being's life? For example, permitting them to marry if they are, oh, let's say different religions? (That law was not finally struck down in the United States until 1967, in Loving v. Virginia.) Or how about on the basis of the same gender? It was only in 2008 -- just 9 years ago -- that California's Proposition 8 did exactly that. People who think of themselves as genuinely "good" and genuinely "Christian" (albeit, of course, there were other religions who also voted) thought that it would be pretty much a "good thing" to deny one of the most basic and fundamental institutions of humanity to some people who didn't, apparently, deserve it.

Some of those beliefs are informed by "holy books," which are supposed to be taken as pretty much infallible -- even though humanity has learned an absolutely immense amount since the writers of those books picked up their quills and styluses. Dozens of sciences that they could not have even imagined have spoken on thousands of topics -- including sexuality, origins of species, mental illness (no, there are no devils taking over people's bodies), how to prolong the lives of people they might not have considered worth living -- and on and on and on. Does that learning count for so very little, or are the "holy words" of long ago of much more moment -- imperative in spite of what we've learned?
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Evangelicalhumanist said:
So, you would agree that it is wrong and dangerous to excise any part of a young female's genitalia on the basis of a belief that God thinks it's a good idea? How about that of a young male's?

Would you, on the basis of a belief vote to constrain some aspect of another human being's life? For example, permitting them to marry if they are, oh, let's say different religions? (That law was not finally struck down in the United States until 1967, in Loving v. Virginia.) Or how about on the basis of the same gender? It was only in 2008 -- just 9 years ago -- that California's Proposition 8 did exactly that. People who think of themselves as genuinely "good" and genuinely "Christian" (albeit, of course, there were other religions who also voted) thought that it would be pretty much a "good thing" to deny one of the most basic and fundamental institutions of humanity to some people who didn't, apparently, deserve it.

Some of those beliefs are informed by "holy books," which are supposed to be taken as pretty much infallible -- even though humanity has learned an absolutely immense amount since the writers of those books picked up their quills and styluses. Dozens of sciences that they could not have even imagined have spoken on thousands of topics -- including sexuality, origins of species, mental illness (no, there are no devils taking over people's bodies), how to prolong the lives of people they might not have considered worth living -- and on and on and on. Does that learning count for so very little, or are the "holy words" of long ago of much more moment -- imperative in spite of what we've learned?
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I base my decisions more on what my conscience says than what I read in the scriptures or hear over the pulpit. And that puts my in the position described by my signature (see below).
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Katzpur said:
I base my decisions more on what my conscience says than what I read in the scriptures or hear over the pulpit. And that puts my in the position described by my signature (see below).
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Not a bad way to approach things, actually.

Please forgive me, I had not read your signature before (I seldom notice those things...seem like advertising to me...I don't even look at my own.) You know, I hope, that your signature does seem to say that while you have spiritual or theistic/deistic beliefs, you are not actually "religious." Religion comes from the Latin word religare, to bind oneself. If you rely on your conscience, rather than on what you suppose you believe, then you really are more like me than you suppose. (I hope that's not too terrifying for you! :p)
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Evangelicalhumanist said:
Not a bad way to approach things, actually.

Please forgive me, I had not read your signature before (I seldom notice those things...seem like advertising to me...I don't even look at my own.) You know, I hope, that your signature does seem to say that while you have spiritual or theistic/deistic beliefs, you are not actually "religious."
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I'm religious to some extent, but almost certainly less so than the "average Mormon." I do actually want to be part of "the tribe," but I don't want it to keep me in a box. There are plenty of things about my religion I quite like. But the pressure to conform can be suffocating at times. Being a Mormon they way in which I am a Mormon can be a difficult balancing act.

Religion comes from the Latin word religare, to bind oneself. If you rely on your conscience, rather than on what you suppose you believe, then you really are more like me than you suppose. (I hope that's not too terrifying for you! :p)
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Not terrifying at all, actually.
 
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U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
syncretic said:
Of course hell isn't temporary. You seem to be arguing apples and oranges here.
The time before judgement isn't the 'hell', that occurs after judgement.
Revelation 14:10-11
This very clearly infers a eternal hell, regardless of how you are interpreting the words.
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I find the final judgement of Matthew 25:31-33 is Not a time before judgement.

I don't think I ever heard anyone use Rev. 14:10-11 to interpret that as eternal hell.
I don't see the word ' hell ' in those verses.
After a building burns down there is smoke left over. There are No flames in ashes, No identify.
I read in verse 11 that the ' smoke ' of their torment ^goes up^ forever. (Does Not say torment forever, but 'smoke').
When Edom was destroyed according to Isaiah 34:10, who would say Edom is still smoking today.
Edom's smoke goes up forever meaning Edom is destroyed forever. The wicked destroyed forever at Psalms 92:7
Edom was simply extinguished as a nation, completely disappeared out of existence.
The choice offered at Deuteronomy 30:19 is either life (everlasting life) or death (everlasting death).
Torture was never an option, just 'dust to dust' (back to dust) as was the post-mortem penalty at Genesis 3:19.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Deidre said:
We don't know these answers. The Bible says a lot of things, I think that we can't presume to understand a god of mercy, should he decide to welcome everyone into heaven. You never know. Many atheists I know are far kinder than many Christians I know, so...I don't think your label will earn you a spot in heaven, rather the condition of our hearts will.
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Kinder than many Christians? or many 'so-called' Christians.
Remember: Jesus forewarned that MANY would come ' in his name ' but proving false at Matthew chapter 7.
I find those who commit the 'unforgivable sin' of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6 will never go to heaven.
For the most part Jesus promised humble meek people will inherit the 'Earth'.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Thief said:
but angels carry swords.....
at least it seems that way
all the statues and paintings that have been put on display over several centuries
I can't take that away
think your safe in heaven?
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Or, I find that angelic armies keep heaven safe.
Please notice according to Revelation 19:14-16 that angels, angelic armies, assist Jesus in getting rid of evil on Earth.
 
Kelly of the Phoenix

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
URAVIP2ME said:
Or, I find that angelic armies keep heaven safe.
Please notice according to Revelation 19:14-16 that angels, angelic armies, assist Jesus in getting rid of evil on Earth.
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Even from iron? Per the bible, I can slaughter entire legions of God's armies with a few bullets or something.
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
syncretic said:
Some churches have inferred otherwise, however, the Bible does not mince it's words,

John 3:36
& other verses,
All atheists might be facing Hell.
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Only if it is an actual place, and so far, you have provided no evidence other than quotes from an old book. Now what???
 
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