Are all creationist dishonest?

[Seabear]

I have to things to say
Confirmation Bias and
Belief Bias

Psychology strikes again.

 

[Revoltingest]

One is a myth and one is a observation of facts. Big big difference there bud.

What are the facts?

The thing is they can keep the beliefs they choose AS LONG as it doesnt go against facts when it does, they have for all purposes crossed the line. That in itself does not make them a liar. But when there presented with evidence and shown proper science and they choose to ignore it is still not a lie. When they spread their views afterwards, that is a blatant lie and sadly they know it.

Even if they use different facts? Criminy, that's harsh.

 

[outhouse]

What are the facts?

evolution

Even if they use different facts?

thats the point, they dont have one fact let alone a different one.

Criminy, that's harsh.

Understood, BUT so is teaching myths to children. This is exactly why they outlawed creation in schools.

Given the chance creationist would love to pollute young mind any way they could. Creation is still big money and the youth of america is at stake. I fight for humanity so if im harsh i hope you understand

 

[Revoltingest]

.....teaching myths to children. This is exactly why they outlawed creation in schools.
Given the chance creationist would love to pollute young mind any way they could. Creation is still big money and the youth of america is at stake. I fight for humanity so if im harsh i hope you understand

A problem with the fact of evolution (& I agree that it is factual) is that it's a gosh darn big & complicated fact, one which challenges their fundamental beliefs & values.
It gives much detail & complex stochastic system relationships, leaving much room for misunderstanding & different understanding.
Perhaps seeing them as an enemy leads to rancorous epithets like "dishonesty".
They aren't my foe....I just disagree with them. I believe them to be wrong.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Since I'm feeling all Biblical and stuff, I must revise my earlier moderate viewpoint. Not only are all Creationists dishonest, all Creationists must be kilt. Immediately. It's all there in the Bible.

There is a Biblical methodology for an individual to become a creationist, which only compounds their dishonesty; and those who use their religion in such a manner actually only believe in their own righteousness.

 

[Revoltingest]

Since I'm feeling all Biblical and stuff, I must revise my earlier moderate viewpoint. Not only are all Creationists dishonest, all Creationists must be kilt.

[youtube]zJVFJ2kb62c[/youtube]
YouTube - Funny Kilt Commercial

 

[painted wolf]

A problem with the fact of evolution (& I agree that it is factual) is that it's a gosh darn big & complicated fact, one which challenges their fundamental beliefs & values.
It gives much detail & complex stochastic system relationships, leaving much room for misunderstanding & different understanding.
Perhaps seeing them as an enemy leads to rancorous epithets like "dishonesty".
They aren't my foe....I just disagree with them. I believe them to be wrong.

Absolutely!
I do think that a few creationists do knowingly spread misinformation in order to "help" their cause though.

But the vast majority are not dishonest at all. There is a very important line between dishonest and misinformed or passionate.

And I totally agree, they are not "the enemy", such thinking is poisonous.

wa:do

 

[outhouse]

They aren't my foe....I just disagree with them. I believe them to be wrong.

Well theres many a creationist that dont feel this way, trust me there fighting hard with big money. This country is at a %60 belief in creationism.

If we all laid down creation would be in schools next year. It took allot to get our society to recognize the myths for what they are. I would hate to see there work go out in vain.

 

[outhouse]

There is a very important line between dishonest and misinformed or passionate

I agrere with this

Not the passionate part though, that is what drives them to cross a line they know is not right

 

[Revoltingest]

Well theres many a creationist that dont feel this way, trust me there fighting hard with big money. This country is at a %60 belief in creationism.

If we all laid down creation would be in schools next year. It took allot to get our society to recognize the myths for what they are. I would hate to see there work go out in vain.

I certainly believe in preventing creationism from being taught in public schools.
I just don't need to dislike or condescend to the poor deluded souls who believe such hogwash.

 

[outhouse]

I just don't need to dislike or condescend

I have no negative or ill feelings at all.

I feel we have put up with the myth bs long enough as a society though.

I try with a ton of patients and educate as possible. When you see the outright lies over and over again is when i need to vent, so i posted this instead of going off.

 

[RedOne77]

The thing is they can keep the beliefs they choose AS LONG as it doesnt go against facts when it does, they have for all purposes crossed the line. That in itself does not make them a liar. But when there presented with evidence and shown proper science and they choose to ignore it is still not a lie. When they spread their views afterwards, that is a blatant lie and sadly they know it.

I'm not to sure about this. Thanks to sites like AiG and ICR, creationists really do think that they have facts on their side. The same thing can be said about us as well; when they present their 'evidence' and we don't change our position can they call us dishonest? Obviously if one decided to they could go to the scientific literature and such and learn how their 'evidence' is bull, but to them we are spreading lies after we've been 'corrected'.

When it comes down to it, we both have our sources and we both trust our sources. And after we've corrected the misguided with our sources, any such continuation is viewed as dishonest. That is what I have concluded after mingling with creationists for years. Of course this could just all be sub-conscious projection, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, usually.

 

[McBell]

I don't look at it quantitatively.

seems to me you are looking for a justification for blatant willing dishonesty.

But do you imagine that your way of seeing things is the only possible way? Is dishonesty the only possible
explanation for disagreeing with you? I've had believers tell me that I'm a liar for denying the existence of their god....are they correct?

What the hell does this have to do with people being in thread after thread after thread flat out lieing that evolution is fake/false/etc. even with Autodidact, PaintedWolf and a few others patiently explaining to them post after post after post ad nauseum why they are flat out wrong?

Just to get it out in the open, I understand what you are saying.
I just completely disagree that they should get to ride the ignorance bus after being shown how they are flat out wrong.

Now are you going to answer my question:

How many threads where they are shown post after post after post of the actual truth before you consider them being dishonest?​

 

[Revoltingest]

seems to me you are looking for a justification for blatant willing dishonesty.

I've no need to defend dishonesty. I've even called posters on lying, mostly on another forum.

What the hell does this have to do with people being in thread after thread after thread flat out lieing that evolution is fake/false/etc. even with Autodidact, PaintedWolf and a few others patiently explaining to them post after post after post ad nauseum why they are flat out wrong?

I've explained many things to them too over the years. I'll continue to give them the benefit of the doubt regarding honesty.

Now are you going to answer my question:

How many threads where they are shown post after post after post of the actual truth before you consider them being dishonest?​

My answer is still that it's not something I'd put a number on, ie, the empty set.
I don't intend to vex you on this issue...I'm just relating my views.

 

[McBell]

My answer is still that it's not something I'd put a number on, ie, the empty set.

Why so squeamish?

 

[Revoltingest]

Why so squeamish?

To be "squeamish" would mean that I've some revulsion at giving you an answer.
That is not the case. You wouldn't want me to given an answer I didn't believe.
Get'n a bit ad hominem, eh?

 

[McBell]

To be "squeamish" would mean that I've some revulsion at giving you an answer.
That is not the case. You wouldn't want me to given an answer I didn't believe.
Get'n a bit ad hominem, eh?

roflmao.
I was asking why you are so squeamish about putting a number on it.

 

[Revoltingest]

roflmao.

Maybe I'll get one of those humor awards.

I was asking why you are so squeamish about putting a number on it.

The empty set has no numbers to give.

 

[McBell]

The empty set has no numbers to give.

Cop out.
But that is just fine with me.
I am done playing your game.

 

[Revoltingest]

Cop out.
But that is just fine with me.
I am done playing your game.

No games here....just differences in opinion....& perhaps a math analogy to an unreceptive audience.