uss_bigd
Well-Known Member
Have you checked Roman Catholc Doctrine? The Relics of the saints were ordered to be worshipped.
That is your opinion, Thou shalt not, means though shalt not.
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Are all self professing Christians Believers of the same Biblical Christ?
- Thread starter uss_bigd
- Start date
Have you checked Roman Catholc Doctrine? The Relics of the saints were ordered to be worshipped.
That is your opinion, Thou shalt not, means though shalt not.
uss_bigd
Well-Known Member
That was how he sees hiself, not how he wants to be called.
Can yu哦 read the the verse that says P阿ul sould be called father????
Matthew 23:9
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
No, the Church never ordered the relics to do anything. The Faithful are to venerate the relics, but there's a vast difference between veneration and worship. Veneration accords a certain respect. Worship seeks to build a transformative relationship. The relics do not transform us. Only God transforms us.
Context. How many times do I have to say, "Context!"
"Alter you pants" and "change your pants" have two different meanings, even though the words seem to be synonymous.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
You're splitting hairs. This isn't an edict on nomenclature. It's a teaching on exaltation. here Jesus is talking to the scribes, who tried to place themselves above other folks by using impressive-sounding titles.
The term "Father" is not a title designed to impress, or to differentiate a stratum. It's a term of endearment.
Jesus is using it as an example, not as an absolute.
blackout
Violet.
Well... let's start with money... graven coinage... bills...
(even bills are engraven)
The (false) image of worth.
What's graven on those coins and bills of yours?
do YOU use it? Do you count on it to live?
Money is the graven golden bull. (bullion)
Shall we do some more?
Didn't your mother tell you its not nice to play with other people's grammar errors, no matter how funny it is?
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Talking to a variety of christians, it seems that not only do different denominations have different concepts of god, but nearly every individual does as well.
I thought the scriptural injunction was not to MAKE an IMAGE of ANYTHING. If you don't MAKE them, there is nothing to venerate. Right?
How do you know what Mary looked like? How do you know what Jesus looked like? The nimbus around their heads on icons are a left over from sun worship....is that OK with God, do you think? :no:Relic worship was not practiced by the first Christians, in fact this is a pagan 'left over' as well. And I hate to bring this up, but there was no "clergy" in original Christianity either. There were no priests officiating in large ornate buildings. Christians were guided by a group of 'older men' or 'elders' who acted as shepherds of God's 'flock'. These operated as a 'body' who oversaw the day to day goings on of the Congregation.
The "church" was not the building, it was the people who met together for worship and who treated one another as true brothers and sisters in Christ.
When Jesus said he was giving them 'a new commandment' that "you love one another" he meant that they were to love as he did...willing to die for each other.The mish-mash of fragmented and bickering churches we see today, all claiming to be followers of Christ, yet all believing different things, are in direct violation of the Apostle Paul's words, "Now I exhort you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among you, but that you may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought. (1 Corinthians 1:10) He goes on to say in V13, "The Christ exists divided."
Jesus himself said in his parable of the wheat and the weeds, that there would be a false Christianity sown by the devil. Both the true and false would 'grow together until the harvest' (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43) So we have this situation of weed-like Christianity growing alongside the real thing. How were we to tell the difference? By their 'fruits' (what kind of people they produce) Real Christians would be doing what Christ commanded and would be no part of this world. They would not adopt its standards, its speech or its loose morals. They would not be outlaws. They would take seriously Christ's command to 'preach the gospel of the Kingdom in all the inhabited earth.' (Matthew 24:14) They would love one another enough to say no to war, refusing to kill their fellow Christians of another nation. They will have 'beaten their swords into ploughshares', respectfully declining to break the law of God when man told them to do so. :yes:
This is not rocket science....it is pure and simple Christianity. But it is the proverbial diamond lost in a pile of broken glass. Seek and ye shall find....
Deeje
blackout
Violet.
Is your religion "Paulianity" or "Christianity"?
Why people try to live/conform their lives to this guys words
will never cease to bewilder me.
At least Jesus was a Dynamic & Inspirational & Interesting Character.
These two have NOTHING in common.
Paul is a dud. Literally. Ick.
Paul is the BIGGEST problem christianity faces, divisivness wise, and otherwise.
IMO.
~V~ lol
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Is your religion "Paulianity" or "Christianity"?
Why people try to live/conform their lives to this guys words
will never cease to bewilder me.
At least Jesus was a Dynamic & Inspirational & Interesting Character.
These two have NOTHING in common.
Paul is a dud. Literally. Ick.
Paul is the BIGGEST problem christianity faces, divisivness wise, and otherwise.
IMO.
~V~ lol
You obviously have a problem with Paul and the things he taught UV. I know a few people who have this attitude. He was very straight and to the point about a lot of things. But he never taught things that were unlawful or unscriptural. He was privileged to write more letters in the Greek scriptures than anyone else. He wasn't chosen for his dynamic, inspirational or interesting character, but for his zeal. He was personally chosen by Christ for a specific job. He was appointed to preach to the nations or gentiles and his background gave him Jewish connections as well as Roman citizenship, which opened doors for him during his difficult ministry.
He was never meant to be compared to Christ. And what he wrote was not divisive. Please share with me anything Paul wrote that is in any way a contradiction of any other part of the Bible.
Deeje
You might be surprised. (I was.)
uss_bigd
Well-Known Member
You obviously have a problem with Paul and the things he taught UV. I know a few people who have this attitude. He was very straight and to the point about a lot of things. But he never taught things that were unlawful or unscriptural. He was privileged to write more letters in the Greek scriptures than anyone else. He wasn't chosen for his dynamic, inspirational or interesting character, but for his zeal. He was personally chosen by Christ for a specific job. He was appointed to preach to the nations or gentiles and his background gave him Jewish connections as well as Roman citizenship, which opened doors for him during his difficult ministry.
He was never meant to be compared to Christ. And what he wrote was not divisive. Please share with me anything Paul wrote that is in any way a contradiction of any other part of the Bible.
Deeje
Exactly .... :bow:
thewindblows
Member
:yes:
AK4
Well-Known Member
You obviously have a problem with Paul and the things he taught UV. I know a few people who have this attitude. He was very straight and to the point about a lot of things. But he never taught things that were unlawful or unscriptural. He was privileged to write more letters in the Greek scriptures than anyone else. He wasn't chosen for his dynamic, inspirational or interesting character, but for his zeal. He was personally chosen by Christ for a specific job. He was appointed to preach to the nations or gentiles and his background gave him Jewish connections as well as Roman citizenship, which opened doors for him during his difficult ministry.
He was never meant to be compared to Christ. And what he wrote was not divisive. Please share with me anything Paul wrote that is in any way a contradiction of any other part of the Bible.
Deeje
Exactly to the third power :yes:
uss_bigd
Well-Known Member
Christ will definitely forgive our "ignorant" and unintentional misunderstandings of him yes i agree.
Would the Biblical Christ forgive our "deliberate" intention to misunderstand his words?
uss_bigd
Well-Known Member
The bible talks about graven images "USED FOR RELIGION"
do you use coins as gods for your religion?
uss_bigd
Well-Known Member
I thought the scriptural injunction was not to MAKE an IMAGE of ANYTHING. If you don't MAKE them, there is nothing to venerate. Right?
Relic worship was not practiced by the first Christians, in fact this is a pagan 'left over' as well. And I hate to bring this up, but there was no "clergy" in original Christianity either. There were no priests officiating in large ornate buildings. Christians were guided by a group of 'older men' or 'elders' who acted as shepherds of God's 'flock'. These operated as a 'body' who oversaw the day to day goings on of the Congregation.
The "church" was not the building, it was the people who met together for worship and who treated one another as true brothers and sisters in Christ.
The mish-mash of fragmented and bickering churches we see today, all claiming to be followers of Christ, yet all believing different things, are in direct violation of the Apostle Paul's words, "Now I exhort you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among you, but that you may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought. (1 Corinthians 1:10) He goes on to say in V13, "The Christ exists divided."
Jesus himself said in his parable of the wheat and the weeds, that there would be a false Christianity sown by the devil. Both the true and false would 'grow together until the harvest' (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43) So we have this situation of weed-like Christianity growing alongside the real thing. How were we to tell the difference? By their 'fruits' (what kind of people they produce) Real Christians would be doing what Christ commanded and would be no part of this world. They would not adopt its standards, its speech or its loose morals. They would not be outlaws. They would take seriously Christ's command to 'preach the gospel of the Kingdom in all the inhabited earth.' (Matthew 24:14) They would love one another enough to say no to war, refusing to kill their fellow Christians of another nation. They will have 'beaten their swords into ploughshares', respectfully declining to break the law of God when man told them to do so. :yes:
This is not rocket science....it is pure and simple Christianity. But it is the proverbial diamond lost in a pile of broken glass. Seek and ye shall find....
Deeje
Exactly
No, of course not. Jesus did not teach that all paths lead to God. Jesus warned that the road to destruction is broad and spacious, and that many professing to serve Christ were, in reality, workers of lawlessness. (Matthew 7:13,21-23) His illustration of the wheat and the weeds indicated that false Christians would infiltrate the Christian congregation for a time. (Matthew 13:36-43) There is only one true Christian faith teaching the truth about God and Christ. (Ephesians 4:4,5)
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
That's absurd.
Matthew 7:21-23
"Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [22] Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' [23] Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
The all roads to go heaven idea flies in the face of the above Scripture
Plus, it goes against God's character for everyone to do 'their' own thing. The following and other scriptures reflect a jealous God who considers His words important as He intended them. These are not scriptures that describe a God who is ok with many conflicting beliefs. Scriptures are not open for liberal interpretation. Instead we ought to seek the original intent of the Scriptures. (E.g. - John 1:12 "receive" in the Greek is defined as believing Jesus claims about himself, your in the camp of those who believe in what he says. Today it's erroneously referred to as "receiving Jesus as Savior"- not the original context.) It's not by denomination however, but by the individual who can see past so many veils of traditions and pre-packaged Gospels such as 'The Four Spiritual Laws' and Catechism, to see Christ as the Scriptures actually described Him, back then.
Joshua 1:7-8
Be strong and very courageous. Be careful to obey all the law my servant Moses gave you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, that you may be successful wherever you go. [8] Do not let this Book of the Law depart from your mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful.
John 12:49-50
For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. [50] I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."
1 Timothy 4:16
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
These Scriptures would not exist if all roads led to heaven.
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