Are All Welcome to Church???????

[thedictator]

NEW YORK TIMES

Carlsbad,Calif.
On a Marquee outside and on a banner inside, Pilgrim United Church of Christ proclaims, "All are welcome." In late January, Mark Pliska, 53 told the congregation here that he had been in prison for molesting children, but that he sought a place to worship. Pliska's request has plunged the close-knit congregation into a painful discussion about applying faith in a difficult real world situation. The Congregants now wonder, are all truly welcome???? If they are, how do you ensure the safety of Children? What about adult survivors of sexual abuse??? Can a offender of who accepts Christ truly Change?

Rev. Madison Shockley said some people said "if he stays I will leave" and a few families have stop attending. The United Church of Christ takes pride in its liberalism, but I think we have been though a loss of innocence, we are not as liberal as we may think. Are all truly welcome?

 

[Draka]

It's one thing to try to be open and welcoming to all people in all walks of life, it is, however, another thing when it may intrude on the safety and well-being of some of the congregation. Especially children. A church, like a coven, is a family in and of itself. You want to protect your family. That's what family does. I would not welcome a child molester into my religious circle or into my home. I would not expect a church to do that either.

That's just my non-christian opinion though. Take it or leave it.

 

[jonny]

I have no sympathy for child molestors. The tragedy of the story is that the man isn't still in prison.

 

[Booko]

There's a different area for Religious News. This doesn't seem to have much to do with Biblical Debates.

If you want this thread moved, you can PM any mod and they'll move it for you.

 

[jamaesi]

There's actually a thread about this here... and my comment in that thread still stands.

 

[Booko]

We've had this debate in our community before. The thing is, we have no right to deny such a person to attend any of our functions while they still have their "administrative rights" (that's a long story and I won't go into it).

It doesn't mean the community can't take some prudent measures to ensure the safety of children, while not offending the person with the history of abusing children.

It's called "chaparones" folks. It's really not that hard.

Oh, and having been falsely accused of child physical abuse myself, let's just say I'm not too keen on going into a rush to judgment total panic "oh my god protect the children!" mode without taking a careful look at ALL sides. :sarcastic

People who abuse were often abused themselves as children.

What are religions good for, if not to help heal these people as well?

Is there no way they can get a chance in life, while we still protect the community?

 

[Ðanisty]

What about adult survivors of sexual abuse???

Perhaps it's time for them to practice that nifty forgive and forget thing that's so popular with Christianity

Can a offender of who accepts Christ truly Change?

I thought that was the entire point of Christianity.

We've had this debate in our community before. The thing is, we have no right to deny such a person to attend any of our functions while they still have their "administrative rights" (that's a long story and I won't go into it).

It doesn't mean the community can't take some prudent measures to ensure the safety of children, while not offending the person with the history of abusing children.

It's called "chaparones" folks. It's really not that hard.

Oh, and having been falsely accused of child physical abuse myself, let's just say I'm not too keen on going into a rush to judgment total panic "oh my god protect the children!" mode without taking a careful look at ALL sides. :sarcastic

People who abuse were often abused themselves as children.

What are religions good for, if not to help heal these people as well?

Is there no way they can get a chance in life, while we still protect the community?

I agree with you, Booko. It's churches like the one in the OP that give a bad name to Christianity by being hypocritical. Is there salvation through Christ or not? :sarcastic

 

[James the Persian]

I agree with you, Booko. It's churches like the one in the OP that give a bad name to Christianity by being hypocritical. Is there salvation through Christ or not? :sarcastic

And I agree with both of you wholeheartedly. Church is, or should be, a hospital for the sick not a place where those who are 'already saved' can pat each other on the back in smug satisfaction that they aren't suffering from the sins of 'those people'. All must be welcomed and all must be helped but that doesn't mean that certain prudent precautions shouldn't also be taken.

James

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

There are some difficulties here that relate more to the person than the church.
If he were convicted of child abuse here he would be let out of prison with certain conditions. He may be restricted to being where children congregate, he would certainly be restricted in having any contact with them.
these restrictions, in them selves, Give a church certain limits as to what they can allow the man to do.
How ever the fact that he wants to go to Church would seem to be much in his favour, and is the right place for him to be for healing.
No one is beyond Gods grace.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Religion may be the help the man needs.

 

[Draka]

I don't agree. The fact that the man is an admitted child molester would still give me a lot of apprehension. Personally, I would want to speak with his parole officer and check to make sure he was considered safe by not only them, but by a therapist of some sort. I would want to know the terms of his release and how it stands with him being in the vicinity of children. A lot of these people turn out to be repeat offenders and I'd have a hard time living with it if I welcomed such a person into a congregation only to find out later that he struck again with a child in the church.

 

[lilithu]

I agree with you, Booko. It's churches like the one in the OP that give a bad name to Christianity by being hypocritical. Is there salvation through Christ or not? :sarcastic

This is an old story. Khalila has given the link to the previous discussion. And I would like to point out that the UCC church, having done a lot of discerning, ultimately decided to welcome the person into their community. One of the proponents for that was a former victim of molestation. And they worked out a way in which they could do it where both the newcomer and the existing congregants could feel that their needs were respected.

The congregation wrestled with the issue seriously. If they had just said "Come on in" without a discussion, they would not have been truly respecting the pain felt by victims of molestation. If they just tried to force this on people who were hesitant, that would not have been true to their values either. It's not hypocritical to hesitate and wrestle. Ultimately, they figured out a way to embrace the beloved community. And I am very proud of them for it.

 

[Ðanisty]

This is an old story. Khalila has given the link to the previous discussion. And I would like to point out that the UCC church, having done a lot of discerning, ultimately decided to welcome the person into their community. One of the proponents for that was a former victim of molestation. And they worked out a way in which they could do it where both the newcomer and the existing congregants could feel that their needs were respected.

The congregation wrestled with the issue seriously. If they had just said "Come on in" without a discussion, they would not have been truly respecting the pain felt by victims of molestation. If they just tried to force this on people who were hesitant, that would not have been true to their values either. It's not hypocritical to hesitate and wrestle. Ultimately, they figured out a way to embrace the beloved community. And I am very proud of them for it.

That sounds like a good ending, but it would be hypocritical if they hadn't allowed him in. Sorry, but I'm just holding Christianity to what it claims.

 

[Booko]

There are some difficulties here that relate more to the person than the church.

True, Terry, but those restrictions would be there whether the church wanted to welcome him or not.

If he were convicted of child abuse here he would be let out of prison with certain conditions. He may be restricted to being where children congregate, he would certainly be restricted in having any contact with them.
these restrictions, in them selves, Give a church certain limits as to what they can allow the man to do.

I wonder if those restrictions could be made to stick so firmly that someone couldn't even attend a very public worship service? In this country, that may be denying the person to practice his religion, and that's a big Constitutional no-no.

No one is beyond Gods grace.

:yes:

 

[Ðanisty]

I wonder if those restrictions could be made to stick so firmly that someone couldn't even attend a very public worship service? In this country, that may be denying the person to practice his religion, and that's a big Constitutional no-no.

Of course, Booko, you know this has been coming up in Georgia lately. Honestly, I feel that people tend to put too strict of regulations on it. A person convicted of a sex crime is still a person and if they've served their time, then they should be treated like they paid their debt. I'm not saying not to exercise caution (and a lot of it), but reading through the Georgia laws last year, it occurred to me that it would be literally impossible for sex offenders to live in some cities in this state just by the locations of churches and schools. I'm not sure whatever happened with that though.

 

[sojourner]

I wonder if those restrictions could be made to stick so firmly that someone couldn't even attend a very public worship service? In this country, that may be denying the person to practice his religion, and that's a big Constitutional no-no.

Attending a public worship service is a right that can be mitigated for any number of legal reasons: Incarceration, medical quarantine, enlistment in military service and, I suspect, court order.
Just because one is not allowed to attend a worship service does not mean that one's civil rights have been violated. If such were the case, then all sorts of churches could be in trouble for not providing the Eucharist upon request. This is why the government keeps its fingers out of religion.
No. The Church has always had the responsibility to determine, on Christ's behalf, whom to offer its ministries. Just because a sign says, "All are welcome," does not mean that wolves should be let in to devour the sheep. I rather suspect that, in this case, the "all are welcome" sign is meant to be inclusive of homosexuals, not convicted pedophiles.
It is a fact that the vast, vast majority of pedophiles are not cured, even through Jesus, since pedophilia is a preference. Conversion is not magic. The church has every right to protect its own members, without being held accountable for its position of open hospitality to those who are not dangerous to the community.

 

[Vassal]

While everyone deserves another chance, there are still consequences for your actions. By molesting children this man has, in-effect, forfeit his right to attend public places where children are not always under adult supervision. I'm sure the man can find a place to worship where there are no children, and hopefully they would help him find a place to do so, but parents have a right to attend a church where they don't have to fear for the safety of their children. It is sad, but these are the consequences that the man will have to live with for the rest of his life.

 

[lilithu]

Are all truly welcome?

YES!!! Hello, people, I'm still seeing comments that assume the church turned this guy away. They did not.

It's not fair to the church to post this story in the OP and to not ALSO say that this UCC church, after much discussion, DID open its doors and arms to this man. They worked out an agreement where he would never be in a situation where he would be alone with kids in the congregation but he was welcome to worship service. So yes, ALL are welcome.

 

[Muffled]

Sinners are welcome in church or none of us would be able to attend. However sin is not welcome in church because church is a sanctuary from sin.

I remember a service where some members voiced their desire to be welcoming to Homosexuals. There were two people who sneaked off to canoodle. An elder must have had a talk with them because they did not return to the service.

At least this person came confessing his sin. My grandkids' father after getting out of jail wanted to visit the grandkids. We let him but wouldn't let him out of our sight because we didn't trust him. What he didn't tell us was that he had been in jail for molesting one of my grandkids' cousins. We found out from his parole officer that he wasn't supposed to visit children without the presence of a state licensed supervisor. For doing so he got tossed back in prison.

 

[michel]

NEW YORK TIMES

Carlsbad,Calif.
On a Marquee outside and on a banner inside, Pilgrim United Church of Christ proclaims, "All are welcome." In late January, Mark Pliska, 53 told the congregation here that he had been in prison for molesting children, but that he sought a place to worship. Pliska's request has plunged the close-knit congregation into a painful discussion about applying faith in a difficult real world situation. The Congregants now wonder, are all truly welcome???? If they are, how do you ensure the safety of Children? What about adult survivors of sexual abuse??? Can a offender of who accepts Christ truly Change?

Rev. Madison Shockley said some people said "if he stays I will leave" and a few families have stop attending. The United Church of Christ takes pride in its liberalism, but I think we have been though a loss of innocence, we are not as liberal as we may think. Are all truly welcome?

I wonder why you have this in the Biblical debates.............

However, I will quote a passage that is rather apt...........
Luke 15: 1 - 10
1 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him.
2 And the Pharisees and the scribes murmured, saying, “This man receives sinners and eats with them.”
3 So he told them this parable:
4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost, until he finds it?
5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, `Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost.’


I think this is such a case; if parents are concerned, they can take care of their children; but Christ would ask us and hope to expect us to give the man who sinned every chance of redeeming himself.