Are Anti-Catholics up for this challenge?

[Spiderman]

I'm speaking of Anti-Catholic "Bible Christians".

I'm not addressing all Protestants as if they were "Anti-Catholic". I'm talking about those who call the Catholic Church "Pagan, Satanic, whore of Babylon, Mother of Harlots". It is very common for non-Catholic Christians I've met in real life and online to describe the Church in such terms.

Thing is, if the Catholic Church is so evil, you have no reason to believe you have the right Bible! The first Christian Bible was put together by the Catholic Church and contained books that Protestants don't accept as being the word of God. Century after century, every Christian Bible accepted that Canon as the word of God.

In the 16th century, Protestantism was invented by sinful men, and those who invented this new system of beliefs decided that what Christians accepted for over a thousand years was the wrong Bible. Protestants are almost all in agreement that the Catholic decision on the Canon of Scripture was incorrect. So, the Deuterocanonicals were ripped out of the Bible.

If the Catholic Church was mistaken on the Old Testament Canon, what basis do you have for believing they were right about the New Testament Canon? I mean, this evil Religion screwed up on the Canon, yet you accept their decision about the New Testament. There were many writings about Christ that never made it into the Canon. How do you know those writings weren't the word of God??

You don't know!

So,
The founder of Protestantism was a Catholic monk and reformers got the Bible from the Catholic Church, which is easy to prove.

However, Protestants seem to all agree that the Catholic Church made a big mistake in keeping books like Judith, Sirach, Maccabees and so on and so forth, as part of the OT Canon.

You are saying that the Christian Bible before the 16th century contained error. How do you know??

How did Protestants get the Divinely inspired authority to make that decision? Oh, let me guess, the Catholic Church was without error in putting together the New Testament, but full of errors when putting together the Old Testament.

Also, what makes you think God protected people from making a single error when they wrote Scripture? Did they suddenly lose their free-will and become robots??? The Apostles, the Prophets, and the anointed Kings of Israel made many mistakes. It seems a huge stretch to think they were without error when writing a text. God didn't protect King David from committing adultery and the murder of his right-hand man, so what makes you think God stopped him from error when he was writing Scriptures?

 

[Spiderman]

By Canon I don't mean:

 

[Jim]

This still looks to me like a kid with a new toy ...

Could you take a little time out for me, to try another little game with me? Just a few minutes, and then you can come back and play with this toy some more.

Just in our imagination, let's pretend that the Bible and all other religious lore and scriptures are pure fiction. That isn't what I think, but let's just pretend for a few minutes. Where could we go from there?

 

[Spiderman]

This still looks to me like a kid with a new toy ...

Could you take a little time out for me, to try another little game with me? Just a few minutes, and then you can come back and play with this toy some more.

Just in our imagination, let's pretend that the Bible and all other religious lore and scriptures are pure fiction. That isn't what I think, but let's just pretend for a few minutes. Where could we go from there?

I don't believe the Bible is without error, but I don't believe that the Bible is void of truth either.

There is a lot of wisdom in the Bible, and I believe some of the historical accounts are true. However, I believe that some of it was stories passed down generation after generation and then they got written down and were not accurate.

I also believe, some of what is attributed to God was actually the prejudices of men and traditions of men , not God.

 

[Misunderstood]

No, I can not. I do not think the Catholics are evil, pagan, satanic, ETC.... I guess I would fall under the Christian Protestant label. However, I have a great respect for the Catholic Church, and love their services ( I like them the best of all I have been to). For myself I just do not relate to them, so I do not consider myself Catholic. I do feel there are evil, pagan, satanic ECT.... people in the Catholic Church, but no more than are in any protestant church or any other religion. I feel there are many Christians in all the churches, so I can not condemn any one church more than another.

As far as the Bible, I feel the Bible is not God, but that the Word of God is contained in the Bible. The Bible will not judge us, God will, the Bible will not condemn us, the Law will. But, I do feel many people will use the Bible during judgment to hold themselves up as great people, as many people twist the Bible into saying whatever they want. God wants us to love and respect each other, if they are reading the Bible as saying something different, they are reading the Bible but not seeing and understanding God.

I hope that helps some to show we are not all that way, and even though I may not agree with you completely, I do love and respect you, and believe you do make some valid points, even-though they may be hard to take sometimes.

 

[Misunderstood]

Thank you for making me a winner Pope. It means a lot to me.

 

[Spiderman]

No, I can not. I do not think the Catholics are evil, pagan, satanic, ETC.... I guess I would fall under the Christian Protestant label. However, I have a great respect for the Catholic Church, and love their services ( I like them the best of all I have been to). For myself I just do not relate to them, so I do not consider myself Catholic. I do feel there are evil, pagan, satanic ECT.... people in the Catholic Church, but no more than are any protestant church or any other religion. I feel there are many Christians in all the churches, so I can not condemn any one church more than another.

As far as the Bible, I feel the Bible is not God, but that the Word of God is contained in the Bible. The Bible will not judge us, God will, the Bible will not condemn us, the Law will. But, I do feel many people will use the Bible during judgment to hold themselves up as great people, as many people twist the Bible into saying whatever they want. God wants us to love and respect each other, if they are reading the Bible as saying something different, they are reading the Bible but not seeing and understanding God.

I hope that helps some to show we are not all that way, and even though I may not agree with you completely, I do love and respect you, and believe you do make some valid points, even-though they may be hard to take sometimes.

Thank you for making me a winner Pope. It means a lot to me.

It means a lot to me to meet a Christian who is not anti-Catholic and respects the most ancient Christian denomination in history, while respectfully disagreeing.

People like you are awesome!

 

[InChrist]

Not everyone who disagrees with the Catholic church hates it or hates Catholics. I was raised Catholic, all my relatives are Catholic. I love them and I love Catholics. I am not a Protestant or follower of Martin Luther or the reformers. I am a Christian, meaning a follower of Jesus Christ and the Gospel. Neither were Paul, the other apostles, or early disciples of Christ were Protestants or Catholics either because those groups did not exist. Nevertheless, Paul and the other apostles opposed the false gospels. The Catholic church has added numerous false doctrines to the simple message of salvation, therefore I disagree with the Catholic church. To disagree with the Catholic church is not anti-Catholic in the negative manner you are attempting to portray, it is pro-truth and speaking the truth shows love.

"First of all, the Roman Catholic Church was not really around as an organization in the first couple hundred years of the Christian Church. "


"The Christian church, as an earthly organization, recognized the Word of God (John 10:27). It didn't give us the Word of God. Also, it was the Jews who gave us the Old Testament. The authenticity of the New Testament documents rests in the inspiration of God through the apostles--not the Catholic Church. Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church did not give us the Old Testament. The Jews did. How can the RCC claim it gave us the Bible when it did not give us the Old Testament? Finally, when the Catholic Church claims that it is the source of the sacred Scriptures, it is, in effect, placing itself above the word of God by claiming that through its authority we received the word of God."
Did the Roman Catholic church give us our Bible? | CARM.org

 

[Spiderman]

Not everyone who disagrees with the Catholic church hates it or hates Catholics. I was raised Catholic, all my relatives are Catholic. I love them and I love Catholics. I am not a Protestant or follower of Martin Luther or the reformers. I am a Christian, meaning a follower of Jesus Christ and the Gospel. Neither were Paul, the other apostles, or early disciples of Christ were Protestants or Catholics either because those groups did not exist. Nevertheless, Paul and the other apostles opposed the false gospels. The Catholic church has added numerous false doctrines to the simple message of salvation, therefore I disagree with the Catholic church. To disagree with the Catholic church is not anti-Catholic in the negative manner you are attempting to portray, it is pro-truth and speaking the truth shows love.

"First of all, the Roman Catholic Church was not really around as an organization in the first couple hundred years of the Christian Church. "


"The Christian church, as an earthly organization, recognized the Word of God (John 10:27). It didn't give us the Word of God. Also, it was the Jews who gave us the Old Testament. The authenticity of the New Testament documents rests in the inspiration of God through the apostles--not the Catholic Church. Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church did not give us the Old Testament. The Jews did. How can the RCC claim it gave us the Bible when it did not give us the Old Testament? Finally, when the Catholic Church claims that it is the source of the sacred Scriptures, it is, in effect, placing itself above the word of God by claiming that through its authority we received the word of God."
Did the Roman Catholic church give us our Bible? | CARM.org

Carm is a very anti-catholic website!

There's no proof that the first few hundred years of Christians were not the roots of Catholicism.

when a seed is planted and when it just starts to get above the soil it looks nothing like it does when it's full grown.

Once Christianity became legalized, it looked different. It was the official religion of the Roman Empire.

So a lot of things changed, but there was no other Church.

the World Book Encyclopedia is not a Catholic book, yet there is a list of popes that dates all the way back the time of Peter in it.

if the first few hundred years was a different Church, why wasn't that church in existence once Christianity was legalized?

It was the same church. It simply was underground. There are underground Catholic churches even in the most anti-catholic countries.

Underground churches look very different, but they are still the same church.

That said, I don't agree with what the Catholic Church teaches. But I'm convinced that the Catholic church was founded by Christ, because the Catholic Church does date back to the time of Christ.

There were catholic Bishops before Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire. There were Bishops ordaining priests and had services very similar to a Catholic Mass, before Constantine.

 

[Spiderman]

Not everyone who disagrees with the Catholic church hates it or hates Catholics. I was raised Catholic, all my relatives are Catholic. I love them and I love Catholics. I am not a Protestant or follower of Martin Luther or the reformers. I am a Christian, meaning a follower of Jesus Christ and the Gospel. Neither were Paul, the other apostles, or early disciples of Christ were Protestants or Catholics either because those groups did not exist. Nevertheless, Paul and the other apostles opposed the false gospels. The Catholic church has added numerous false doctrines to the simple message of salvation, therefore I disagree with the Catholic church. To disagree with the Catholic church is not anti-Catholic in the negative manner you are attempting to portray, it is pro-truth and speaking the truth shows love.

"First of all, the Roman Catholic Church was not really around as an organization in the first couple hundred years of the Christian Church. "


"The Christian church, as an earthly organization, recognized the Word of God (John 10:27). It didn't give us the Word of God. Also, it was the Jews who gave us the Old Testament. The authenticity of the New Testament documents rests in the inspiration of God through the apostles--not the Catholic Church. Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church did not give us the Old Testament. The Jews did. How can the RCC claim it gave us the Bible when it did not give us the Old Testament? Finally, when the Catholic Church claims that it is the source of the sacred Scriptures, it is, in effect, placing itself above the word of God by claiming that through its authority we received the word of God."
Did the Roman Catholic church give us our Bible? | CARM.org

You don't even know if you have the right New Testament Canon.

There is no proof that the Catholic Church chose the correct Canon of scripture.

You already believe that they screwed up on the Old Testament. You don't you know they didn't screw up on the New Testament as well!

 

[stvdv]

I'm not addressing all Protestants as if they were "Anti-Catholic"

You are a master in choosing words. Big grin appearing on my face. I always liked the Catholic Churches when young. Nice colors, statues etc.
Not all protestants in my Church thought the same though, maybe even an understatement. I never understood why Christians were so judgmental

I'm talking about those who call the Catholic Church "Pagan, Satanic, whore of Babylon, Mother of Harlots"

I never even heard of these words before today. I thought the Church called those thinking different then them "Pagans, Satanic". But maybe it was the other way around

Thing is, if the Catholic Church is so evil, you have no reason to believe you have the right Bible

That is a very good point. Some people might not be too happy when they realize what this line means.

 

[Jumi]

Here's a reference for you,

The Development of the Canon of the New Testament - Cross Reference Table: Writings and Authorities

 

[Woberts]

I guess I would be an anti-Catholic.
Finding out that the church has been covering up decades of pedophilia does that to a person.

 

[Spiderman]

I guess I would be an anti-Catholic.
Finding out that the church has been covering up decades of pedophilia does that to a person.

I would say that I'm anti certain Bishops who are guilty of that.

The church is not guilty of What Judas Priests and Bishops do

 

[Spiderman]

I would say that I'm anti certain Bishops who are guilty of that.

The church is not guilty of What Judas Priests and Bishops do

One of the people that Jesus called to his hierarchy was Judas. Every organization has wolves in sheep's clothing.