Are atheists implying theists are delusional?

[MaddLlama]

Maybe we need to review the psychiatric definition of a delusion:
"A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness"

 

[Revasser]

Maybe we need to review the psychiatric definition of a delusion:
"A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness"

Personally, I think that would be great idea.

Then I wouldn't have to try to defend the accuracy of using the term "delusional" to refer to generally sensible people I'd really rather it didn't apply to. :no:

(Not that I'm without my own delusions. I really am a master of Chainmail, you know. )

 

[d.]

a delusion is contigent upon proof that what the delusional person believes is false.
Personally, I don't believe that you can prove that.

i'm not sure you need to prove that. you can't prove i'm not napoleon reincarnated either. to me it's more a matter if the belief is highly unlikely or not, i.e. 'irrational'. and that would of course depend on what information the 'deluded' person in question has had access to. it would be strange to call mediaeval people delusional because they believed in demon possession.

 

[Willamena]

absolutely; if a delusion is defined as "a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact" but being 'delusional' doesn't make one a 'nut'.

i certainly don't think of myself as not being in any way delusional.

Heh, silly dictionary: there's no such thing as a "false belief" --you either have a belief, or you don't, and if you do, you do. I would say rather "belief in a false thing".

 

[Willamena]

I don't think the experience itself is necessarily delusional (unless it actually takes the form of an audible voice that tells you to KILL!!!!, perhaps). People getting warm fuzzies or feelings of "connection" is not uncommon and there's nothing false about acknowledging you had the experience.

Just so.

"False" is such a loaded word. A "mistaken belief" makes sense, because it puts the onus on a peron's take, which causes the belief. "False belief" implies that belief never happened --silly wording.

Delusion is belief in something that is false. Faith is such a delusion. If I have faith that my brother will do the right thing and divorce his wife (entirely hypothetical situation), then over time they work things out and all's well, that doesn't mean that my faith was misplaced, and it certainly doesn't mean that it was "false belief" --it was dependent upon that particular take, which itself is dependent upon time and circumstance.

To PROVE delusion you need to PROVE the belief to be false. To THINK someone is delusional you need to THINK their belief is false. Slight difference.

"False" belief implies that belief never happened. If it happened, it happened. Belief in a false thing is more accurate.

 

[Random]

But belief in GOD is not a falsifiable belief: therefore, how can one be delusional believing it?

The Atheist icons, Dawkins and Dennett et al, would have less kind words for theists I'm sure: delusional implies that the deluded person can be treated or corrected, this is not the case with many theists who would be insulted to find themselves thrust upon a psychiatrist for non-conformity to theisms competing idioms.

Imagine if all religions felt the same way about psychiatry that Scientology does: there's be World War forever!

Perhaps Atheists are necessarily victims of the materialist delusion.

 

[Revasser]

The Atheist icons, Dawkins and Dennett et al, would have less kind words for theists I'm sure: delusional implies that the deluded person can be treated or corrected, this is not the case with many theists who would be insulted to find themselves thrust upon a psychiatrist for non-conformity to theisms competing idioms.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that either theists or atheists should be subjected to psychiatric treatment on that basis alone. That would be utterly ridiculous. That implies mental illness and I would disagree that a delusion necessarily implies mental illness. Everybody carries around with them some delusions, but not everybody is mentally ill.

Though as I said earlier, in common language, "delusion" does often carry that connotation, which is why I would disagree with it's use in regard to Joe Theist outside the context of this kind of discussion on the subject. When you're talking with someone to whom "delusional" will essentially equate to "nutcase", it is no longer justifiable or accurate to use it.

Perhaps Atheists are necessarily victims of the materialist delusion.

Perhaps so, my friend.

 

[Paraprakrti]

No "implicit" about it.

Wait a minute...

Seyorni, are you an atheist? Or are you just speaking about atheists?

 

[Valjean]

I'm not particularly theistic myself, though I'm sure there are plenty of people who do create gods.
I was pointing out that, as some of the other responses illustrate, many would go beyond implication and state outright that theists delude themselves.

 

[logician]

I have found there is much more discrimination against the atheist by theists in society than vice versa. You can't run for political office(successfully) w/o claiming some sort of faith. This is quite sad really, as there are really not that many open-minded people on a percentage basis in the U.S. when in comes to matters of religion.

 

[gnomon]

I wouldn't call a religious belief delusional. However, when it comes to certain aspects of dogma or history than I believe people can fall into a delusion. Of course, this can apply to atheists as well. Overall, the manner in which history is taught sets people up to be deluded. We teach children falsehoods in history to which they are usually only exposed to the facts later. A lifetime belief is much harder to change and can increase the chance of people deluding themselves into false beliefs in order to maintain a framework of belief.

This can apply to any belief. After all, who was it that reached Concord to warn the people of the arrival of British soldiers?

 

[YmirGF]

Hehe. I'm one of those morons who think that every living person to delusion to lesser and greater degree's. If your find yourself in a human body, you are probably delusional.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I agree with Ymir... we are ALL delusional. One of my goals in life is to reduce my delusions to a managable level.

Santa? Doesn't exist.
Magenta squirrel eating turtles? I don't see them.

You get the picture.

Does God communicate with me? With every fish that swims and every leaf that grows. With every bird that flies and with sun that sets. With each and every sense and with all of my logic. God never stops communicating to me about his love and compassion and his wish for me to live a life of love.

 

[Majikthise]

Considering forces beyond our comprehension ,maybe intelligent forces, I would not consider delusional.
Believing that there is a man with a big white beard up in the sky who will grant you prosperity if you lick his boots , is delusional.
Delusion is believing there is any other thing that controls your life but you.

 

[YmirGF]

Does God communicate with me? With every fish that swims and every leaf that grows. With every bird that flies and with sun that sets. With each and every sense and with all of my logic. God never stops communicating to me about his love and compassion and his wish for me to live a life of love.

I like that a lot, Pete. Me too. My own theory is that we have never been externalized and that we still, as I type, exist within God or All That Is. In some ways, I think we exist within the mind of God, but who am I to say, eh?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Delusion is believing there is any other thing that controls your life but you.

Say that to the poor kid stuck in poverty, or the felon in the penitentiary who started out that same way. Control is an illusion. You only think you are in control until you are shown, without mercy or explanation that you are indeed not. Reality loves to show it's face just when you think you have it all figured out.

 

[Majikthise]

Say that to the poor kid stuck in poverty, or the felon in the penitentiary who started out that same way. Control is an illusion. You only think you are in control until you are shown, without mercy or explanation that you are indeed not. Reality loves to show it's face just when you think you have it all figured out.

Plenty of people start out with tough lives and still manage to make something of themselves , it's called character and determination. The felon is a poor example and only illustrates my point. You really believe my life has always been hunky dory? I've managed just fine without jumping on the religious band wagon.

 

[Ryan2065]

Say that to the poor kid stuck in poverty, or the felon in the penitentiary who started out that same way. Control is an illusion. You only think you are in control until you are shown, without mercy or explanation that you are indeed not. Reality loves to show it's face just when you think you have it all figured out.

Sure people are in control of their own lives. Just because someone cannot get out of a situation they are in does not mean they arent in control of their lives. People are not in control of their environment, but they are defently in control of themselves.

 

[gnostic]

I was mistaken into believing in balance :seesaw: or the middle ground, because there are none. Clearly, I've an unbalanced mind. :jester3:

But it is also clear to me that I'm not alone in the delusion. Theists and atheists also suffered from delusion, but because they swing from equally opposite extreme, and think what they see or believe to be real.

They should know there is NOTHING "real" on this planet and in this life, except for the Teletubbies. :bow:

May [SIZE=-1]Laa-Laa [/SIZE]bless your souls. And may [SIZE=-1]Tinky Winky bless your "winky". [/SIZE]:liturgy:...so that you may be f...*clear throat* ahem...be fruitful.

 

[Ryan2065]

Theists and atheists also suffered from delusion, but because they swing from equally opposite extreme, and think what they see or believe to be real.

I was wondering if atheists can be consdiered having delusions... Is not seeing something that is there a delusion?