Are Believers Delusional?

[Heyo]

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition (DSM-5) defines delusions as fixed beliefs that are not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence.

via What Are Delusions?
The DSM also makes an exception for religiously held beliefs.

So, currently, believers are not seen as delusional.

But should they?

I think that they should when their beliefs lead to a sense of entitlement. There are enough examples, historical and present, that fall under that category.
"We shall conquer that land because it was given to us by our god."
"We deserve tax exemption because we believe in an invisible, higher being."
"I deserve special respect because of my irrational beliefs." (Blasphemy laws)
"You should vote for me, because I got called by my god to run for office."

Technically, it wouldn't even touch on the religious beliefs, only on the resulting entitlement, but even that seems to be a taboo.

What do you think, is someone who thinks that they are entitled to special treatment because of their beliefs, delusional?

 

[McBell]

via What Are Delusions?
The DSM also makes an exception for religiously held beliefs.

The DSM would not need to make an 'exception' for religion if religion was not delusion.

Of course, this is merely saying that religion does in fact meet the DSM standards to be diagnosed delusional.
Otherwise an 'exception' would not need to be made

 

[ChristineM]

What do you think, is someone who thinks that they are entitled to special treatment because of their beliefs, delusional?

Yes,
Sorry for the verbose reply.

 

[stvdv]

via What Are Delusions?
The DSM also makes an exception for religiously held beliefs.

So, currently, believers are not seen as delusional

Seems DSM is not yet delusional. Good to know

But should they

No.
I think/hope that needs no explanation
Easy to figure that one out, I think
For the real Scientists

But if needed I can elaborate

 

[Heyo]

But if needed I can elaborate

You need to, especially as you didn't address the second part of the OP.

 

[Balthazzar]

Yeah, sometimes. To go further still, I'm looking at world governments and populations who are, ahem, according to your unique, not so unique insight are ... ta da - Delusional. So, the majority of the earth's population are delusional. Wait, except the non-religious communist type territories. Being delusional sucks man. I'm not a communist.

 

[Balthazzar]

Sociology, civics, psychology, theology, and world government .... does anyone study these together anymore?

Politics, go figure ...

 

[SalixIncendium]

I think "delusional" is a bit strong. I would class it as "entitlement mentality."

 

[stvdv]

xxx

via What Are Delusions?
The DSM also makes an exception for religiously held beliefs.

So, currently, believers are not seen as delusional

Seems DSM is not yet delusional. Good to know

But should they

No.
I think/hope that needs no explanation
Easy to figure that one out, I think
For the real Scientists

But if needed I can elaborate

You need to,

why?

especially as you didn't address the second part of the OP.

Because
this reasoning is no reason for me to elaborate

 

[PureX]

via What Are Delusions?
The DSM also makes an exception for religiously held beliefs.

So, currently, believers are not seen as delusional.

But should they?

I think that they should when their beliefs lead to a sense of entitlement. There are enough examples, historical and present, that fall under that category.
"We shall conquer that land because it was given to us by our god."
"We deserve tax exemption because we believe in an invisible, higher being."
"I deserve special respect because of my irrational beliefs." (Blasphemy laws)
"You should vote for me, because I got called by my god to run for office."

Technically, it wouldn't even touch on the religious beliefs, only on the resulting entitlement, but even that seems to be a taboo.

What do you think, is someone who thinks that they are entitled to special treatment because of their beliefs, delusional?

To my way of understanding all 'belief' is delusional in that it blindly and irrationally chooses to presume something that we can't know to be so, is so, and then eschews doubt to maintain that state of surety.

 

[stvdv]

via What Are Delusions?
The DSM also makes an exception for religiously held beliefs.

So, currently, believers are not seen as delusional.

But should they?

I think "delusional" is a bit strong. I would class it as "entitlement mentality."

If
DSM would call "believers delusional"
Then
DSM would prove "DSM is delusional"

So, I don't think "delusional" is a bit strong
I would call it a bit "not smart", anti-scientific

And that can't be the goal of DSM

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM; latest edition: DSM-5-TR, published in March 2022) is a publication by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) for the classification of mental disorders using a common
language and standard criteria

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[stvdv]

You need to, especially as you didn't address the second part of the OP.

Don't be sad

This is too important for me to not answer
Putting away ALL believers as delusional
Is a huge claim, if DSM would do that
Quite a "not smart claim" as well
For obvious reasons

 

[wellwisher]

via What Are Delusions?
The DSM also makes an exception for religiously held beliefs.

So, currently, believers are not seen as delusional.

But should they?

I think that they should when their beliefs lead to a sense of entitlement. There are enough examples, historical and present, that fall under that category.
"We shall conquer that land because it was given to us by our god."
"We deserve tax exemption because we believe in an invisible, higher being."
"I deserve special respect because of my irrational beliefs." (Blasphemy laws)
"You should vote for me, because I got called by my god to run for office."

Technically, it wouldn't even touch on the religious beliefs, only on the resulting entitlement, but even that seems to be a taboo.

What do you think, is someone who thinks that they are entitled to special treatment because of their beliefs, delusional?

Most of the entitlement mentality, stemming from the Left, comes under the dynamics discussed in this topic. Reparations for slavery is where people who were never slaves, feel entitled to be compensated, by those who never owned slaves or whose descendants were not even in America at the time of slavery. There is no direct cause and effect for justice, required under the delusions of entitlements. It we had a case by case criteria, then cause and affect could be meet, since we could filter out those running their coat tail scam of class action suits. But this is not how is done, Instead they use emotion to put a haze over any rational distinctions. This provides cover for scammers.

DEI is the latest scam in the long list of Leftist collective delusions. DEI is not based on merit. Merit is rational since it uses tangible criteria; scores on standard tests, like we do in science testing. Rather it is a self serving delusion based on emotional thinking; subjectivity of blaming groups including the innocent in those groups, to reward, even the evil one's, in the DEI group of delusion entitled. Many are now willing accomplices in election interference; was never about truth and justice but the entitlement of revenge.

The subjectivity criteria and problem, used for all the entitlement scams seems to have come from Psychology. Psychology has promoted the idea of emotional thinking at the expense of reason. They teaching getting in touch with feelings, instead of using common sense and critical thinking to make sure your emotions are not part of any mass delusion. Feelings can be manipulated and then used to manipulate common sense even for a herd. How many people know the DEI is a scam, but go along because you are made to feel guilty about things you may not have done? Nice people often will accept more blame, then they deserve, with Psychology not helping to set this straight. If Psychology was genuine they would point out collective emotional scams and not ignore these.

I know this topic was intended for targeting religion. My analysis shows that topic this also applies to Liberalism. Does that mean that Liberalism a form of a godless religion? If so, separation of Church and State may require a Liberal purge by the State, like they did with core Religions who promote faith using emotions.

In the up coming elections, the expected tactic by the Left will be the bogeyman to induce the emotion of fear, which they will extrapolate and amplify into many areas without proof. Remember the Russian Collision bogeyman, this will be worse? This is a main tactics of delusionists. They will not discuss critical thinking criteria, like how soft on crime increases crimes or how open borders encourages illegal entry. These things appear to make more sense with emotional thinking; reparations for criminals and others, who think they are entitled without merit, such as the merit of following the rules and getting an A.

I mention this as a way to help some become objective to the emotional manipulation scams of the Liberal religion, so we can separate this church from the state. I am assuming we want a rational state leadership, and not one that prefers delusions and other criminal scams justified by manipulation of emotions and emotional thinking.

 

[SalixIncendium]

If
DSM would call "believers delusional"
Then
DSM would prove "DSM is delusional"

So, I don't think "delusional" is a bit strong
I would call it a bit "not smart", anti-scientific

And that can't be the goal of DSM

If
you are going to quote my posts,
Please
do me the courtesy of addressing the point in the post instead of ignoring it entirely and spouting rhetoric.

 

[Augustus]

defines delusions as fixed beliefs that are not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence

Pretty much every human holds fixed beliefs that they don’t change when presented with conflicting evidence.

Our brain evolved in a way that basically
guarantees this (cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias, in/out group biases, coalitional mindsets, etc.)

Anyone who thinks they are the magical person who doesn’t ever do this is delusional on this issue.

I don’t think that’s a particularly useful measure of being delusional in the sense of a medical disorder (rather than colloquially for being significantly mistaken).

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

What do you think, is someone who thinks that they are entitled to special treatment because of their beliefs, delusional?

Yes. And I also think that all sense of entitlement is base on odd beliefs but, as you yourself point out below

Technically, it wouldn't even touch on the religious beliefs, only on the resulting entitlement

I don’t think that those sort of beliefs are so very religious - despite what those who may hold them believe.


Humbly,
Hermit

 

[MikeF]

Per the link in the OP: "The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition (DSM-5) defines delusions as fixed beliefs that are not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence."

Having a belief in undetectable, unmeasurable entities and realms immune from verification sets up a bit of a loophole in that no conflicting evidence can be produced by the very virtues of the properties assigned to the beliefs.

 

[stvdv]

@SalixIncendium

So, currently, believers are not seen as delusional.

But should they?

I just don't like it, how this is phrased

Gives a really bad vibe, to read that at the start
And as the title. Hence my focus on this part.

 

[Heyo]

Don't be sad

This is too important for me to not answer
Putting away ALL believers as delusional
Is a huge claim, if DSM would do that
Quite a "not smart claim" as well
For obvious reasons

I think that they should when their beliefs lead to a sense of entitlement. There are enough examples, historical and present, that fall under that category.

Technically, it wouldn't even touch on the religious beliefs, only on the resulting entitlement, but even that seems to be a taboo.

What do you think, is someone who thinks that they are entitled to special treatment because of their beliefs, delusional?

I have copied (part of) the second part of the OP, I have previously mentioned, as it seems that somehow didn't reach you. Otherwise I can't explain your straw manning of my position (without being rude).
You now have the complete OP, relevant portions emphasized. You can try again, now.

 

[Revoltingest]

What do you think, is someone who thinks that they are entitled to special treatment because of their beliefs, delusional?

Generally, yes.
The ubiquity & variety of magical belief (eg, religion)
indicates a normal way for humans to attempt to
explain their world. These beliefs (illusions) are invented
& then passed on in culture.

That differs from fantastic beliefs arising in individuals,
apart from endemic shared magical beliefs. These would
be delusions, ie, an abnormal mental state that's treated
as a medical condition.
Of course, delusion can be exhibited by abnormal religious
experiences that run counter to reality & normal behavior,
eg, Deanna Laney killing her kids because God told her to.

Magical belief is a counterpart to rational belief, another
approach that humans exhibit. Note that rational belief
doesn't mean the beliefs are correct, only that they're
arrived at by objective means. Errors naturally abound
when humans reason. Progress occurs as errors are found,
& better (ie, more useful) understandings prevail.