Are believers Worshiping Satan in Gods disguise?

[McBell]

God could have created the same book in numerous religions all across the world at once. so why didn't he do that? why did he need a holy book in the first place - he could have avoided it.

Once again, "i would have done it differently so god should done it differently" is not an argument, it is an opinion.

 

[morphesium]

Once again, "i would have done it differently so god should done it differently" is not an argument, it is an opinion.

i agree.

 

[morphesium]

Because it wasn't meant for the whole world. It was meant for the people who it was given to.

Those people are long dead. They might have reasons to believe in those. may be a nine month old baby talked to them like a man to make them believe.
For you and me these are just stories. So what makes you believe in these?

 

[psychoslice]

Those people are long dead.

They certainly are dead, I cannot understand why so many want to dig up the past and only believe that over anything else.

 

[morphesium]

Once again, "i would have done it differently so god should done it differently" is not an argument, it is an opinion.

I don't think god has done anything as per the claims of these religious texts.

 

[Etritonakin]

That is probably true. But I do think religion and religious people overwhelmingly have genuine good at the bottom of their hearts.

I don't have any statistics, but I'll trust No Man

 

[psychoslice]

I don't have any statistics, but I'll trust No Man

And man is who wrote the very thing you believe in.

 

[morphesium]

They certainly are dead, I cannot understand why so many want to dig up the past and only believe that over anything else.

Religion propagates by taking advantage of human psychology. This is how it usually works (99.9%) of the cases.

At the very young age as their brain is being forming or developing the kids see their parents practicing a religion. ( they assume their parents are always right - it is their sole world). later on as they grow up (but still very young to make an independent decision), they are forced to regularly attend religious schooling or church preaching or mosque or whatsoever. Religion pretends it knows all, that the followers are of the highest morale. It takes advantage of the fact that:-

1. 1. The fear of the unknown is always much greater than fear of the known.
   2. There is always the uncertainty of the future.
   3. At times of extreme hardships or distress, people need something strong to pacify them. The sense of some supernatural that would protect them, or that it would ask for their grievance is a strong pacifier. (This even though seems good, it is often for their worse. It often leads to running away from the solution rather than finding a solution to the problem).

(These are the three things that make people adhering to God or the concept of God).

These kids are brain washed there. Regular and peiodical thinking and practices make things hardwired in the brain and once it is hardwired (kind of habitulazing), it is very difficult to break such thoughts and practices. These are (some of) the reason why religion keeps lingering even if our rational minds finds faults with it. (Once hardwired, it takes strong will and determination to break free from this). Over time the kids become adults and the cycle continues.

Imagine someone who is not used to the habit of drinking tea or reading newspaper early in the morning. he does the same the next day, the 3rd day.... he can stop that at any moment. But if he happened to keep on doing it that for 21 days regularly, the situation is very different. The routine is habitulaized. His mind will ask for tea, the morning news paper. Without that he will feel like something is missing, that his morning is not complete. The new routine has now turned to a habit. This is what counselling centers make use of if one wants to change habits.

Religion makes use of these to propagate even though it is not the truth, hard wiring in the brain make it quite impossible to think out of the box and the followers accept it as the truth. virgin getting pregnant, 9 month old infant speaking like a man, world made in six days, divine revelations, 1st messenger, 2nd messenger, 3rd messenger , the Bible, Quran all appears to make sense.

 

[Thanda]

IMO, this is an especially big problem for the monotheists: if you believe there's only one god and any number of demons/deceiving spirits/etc., then just by sheer probability, odds are that the entity you've chosen to follow is a demon and not God.

False. Monotheists Believe there is one God and one Satan. They also believe God and the devil have many servants and angels.

 

[Sabour]

The problem is we come to know all about these from this (these) book(s) alone - and there is no proof, no experiments to prove it right. So what if it was a ploy of satan? what if he is making use of human psychology so that there would be much fighting and blood shed over this issue sooner or later? one prophet come with some methodologies, then comes another with quite some different approch and then another prophet etc. Moreover religions grow and split and they start to fight with one another. So who is the winner here eventually? – Satan.

Actually these books have signs and proofs if they were examined carefully, but I don't think there would be an experiment that shows the truth. If that ever happened, than there will be more repentance because the unseen has been all revealed and it will be too late.

Rationally speaking, I find what you are suggesting here is impossible. Scriptures are fulled with stuff about Satan and how he functions and describing him as the worst enemy as he is the one who whispered to our father Adam and our mother Eve and caused the fall down from heaven. He is described as accursed by God. There is no way all of this is playing around and deceiving, that is if we were to talk about it.

Moreover, religions don't split and fight one another. Every religion calls for peace. It is the human who makes use of religion and twists it to justify their cruel behavior which is generally motivated by personal and political reasons in the first place. If anything, it is people who are making religion look bad and not the other way.

All prophets that came along shared the same message which is worshiping God, the only deity. But people twisted it along the way, for their own personal benefits as I have previously said. Nevertheless, all the religion still say love one another explicitly. However, there are a million ways to twist scripture and taking it out of context to make it say "kill one another" in almost every religion. Religion is not to blame here, it is people to blame. People will always find a way to do what they want to do, whether religion was there or not.

All human beings have some morale and are capable of rational thinking (these qualities are very innate to us). The good thing about morale is that it is always one step ahead of us. So , listening to your morale makes you better and even better. In effect, it will keep on polishing oneself. Hence, morale can guide one. As ones morale polishes oneself individually, collectively it is the society that eventually gets polished; so is social justice- it gets polished; so is social laws - it gets polished. That is the reason why social injustice like slavery, inhumane laws etc that were once much prevalent and legal in our societies are now illegal and abandoned.

What about those people who don't have morale and are not capable of rational thinking? What about those people who lived at a time when survival was for the fittest? How people used to treat one another in that time?

If this is the argument you are putting forward allow me to tell you that you are wrong. Morales at that time was not ahead of people, the need of survival was the key point all people tried to achieve. It doesn't matter if you kill a person in the process or kill a 100. Tribes would fight over water, food and resources. This is actually till our very day. However people today are better at it in which they were suits and ties and have conferences feeding people wrong information to justify their cruel actions under the name of "peace". Religion was always there to teach people how to live together and care for one another and share things rather than the other way round. It is we who are abusing religion and not the other way round.

Slavery was there because of humans, not because of religion. It is religion that called for setting them free.

The problem with religion is that it resists change – not only because it is habitualized, but also out of fear; fear of the religious heads; fear of the God itself. This is where the problem is. Even if their morale is asking for a change, they won’t out of fear, out of the feeling that their holy books can never go wrong – after all it is god sent, how can it be wrong and they reasons and opt not to change.

That is another aspect of discussion. You seem to take it for granted that religious holy book is wrong. You put that assumption and go with it. Well let me ask you, what if you were wrong? What if Quraan really doesn't go wrong? Did you ever think of that? Did you put it under the test? Did you read it and kept in mind that it is 1400 years old? Did you not see how can this book not be a production of men living 1400 years ago?

If you did read it and did not see it, than let me tell you that I did see it. I accept the Quraan as a revelation from God that can never go wrong. Had I seen something immoral in it, than that would have not been my position. Quraan teachings are wonderful and morally they will always be ahead of us. Prophets were and will always be the best of examples for us to follow. Besides, the religion of God never needs a change because God has made it adaptable to every time and every place.

When parents teach their children, they teach them to adapt in every situation and culture. Children are given the overall guidelines and children use their mind and resources to put what they have learned into the context of their situation. Religion is similar. We have the overall guidelines and put them into our context. Religion doesn't cancel minds, but rather it encourages using it.

Perhaps you see this gap between believers and you due the different perception of who God is. Am only trying to guess here. Don't know if that was accurate.

(For this I am taking the example of the case with halal meat. Modern science has methods to kill an animal in the most humane way- killing the brain or making the animal unconscious with a shock and then butchering it (if it is the intentions of Prophet Mohammed that is to be valued, then this is Halal meat now). What about the animal that has to undergo halal butchering – it has to suffer much more pain. Back in those old days, it was the best possible method; drain as much blood as possible which ensures that the animal has been killed before it is butchered. But how can one accept it is the best method available now.) Similar is the case with slavery, child marriages.

I don't think you are accurately describing Halal meet. Actually in Halal, animals don't feel any pain.

What about Slavery and child marriages?

Islam goal was ending slavery, and it encouraged this by taking it step by step. What about child marriages? When Islam came it was the norm of people marrying early. In the Eighteenth century, the legal age to marry was 12. Islam was there since 1400 years ago and it was sent for people of all ages. But that doesn't mean you should always marry at such an early age. There is a rule in Islam that says what is socially accepted is what is Islamically accepted,, unless it goes against Islam.

Religion is very addictive and blindfolding in nature so that it can prevent them from seeing what they ought to, prevent them from listening to their morale which they ought to. Why do you think the ISIS people are so morale-less? The cruelties of the Christian church towards people who stood for science? Why is that people like Raif Badawi are punished when his suggestions were actually intended to (re)glorify Islam? – so who is the winner here? – Satan

ISIS are people who have their own agenda and use Islam to justify their acts. They have nothing to do with Islam.

Standing against science is a mistake people shouldn't do. If things were truly from God, science would help prove that.

I am not knowledgeable about Raif Badawi case but I am not a supporter of that.

Satan is not the winner. People who are truly following the teachings of the scriptures make Satan the biggest loser.

I repeat, people's actions are always based on their intentions. If you are a peaceful person, your judiasim,Christianity, Hinduism, or Buddhism will be peaceful. If you are a violent person, you will be violent no matter what your religion was.

People's intentions and motivation are all that is behind the violence. Not religion.

 

[Sabour]

Theres a saying "the devil is never any more evil then when he appears to be the angle of light."

That doesn't mean that any angel we see we should suspect he is the devil in disguise. That will make us never move a step.

 

[Sabour]

God could have created the same book in numerous religions all across the world at once. so why didn't he do that? why did he need a holy book in the first place - he could have avoided it.

If God did this, than your question would be why did he do it all at once. Or maybe why did God need a book. Or why did God not ......?


The point is the same people will have the same "but why" question in all cases.

 

[Etritonakin]

And man is who wrote the very thing you believe in.

That is a somewhat true statement, but false considering how you seem to have meant it.
Men writing down those words is only a small part of what I believe and how I came to believe it.

 

[McBell]

I don't think god has done anything as per the claims of these religious texts.

Then what is your argument?

 

[George-ananda]

I don't have any statistics, but I'll trust No Man

That kind of attitude sounds too paranoid and negative and not a path to peace, love and happiness.

 

[Etritonakin]

That kind of attitude sounds too paranoid and negative and not a path to peace, love and happiness.

It is an accurate perception.
I am for peace, love people and am happy. Knowing that most people have a threshold -a point at which they will betray you in deed or in spirit -is not paranoid. The others will likely betray you accidentally.
I know people will do me harm -and I still love them. That is positive.
I trust people to be people. They do not fully understand a perfect set of principles, and they do not perfectly adhere to them.
Even if they knew perfectly how to do right, most can be made to do what they know is wrong.
Most consider which of various evils is lesser, rather than refusing to do evil altogether.
Evil understands faithlessness -but not enough to turn from it.
Evil says things like... "Steal/kill/lie, etc., or I will kill -and you will be responsible. If you steal/kill/lie, I will not kill."
Faithlessness says stealing is a small thing compared to death -and that stealing is the right choice in that situation.
Faithlessness hates the one who will not steal -and blames them for the murder committed by Evil.
Faithlessness is thereby employed to do increasingly evil things -thinking it is preventing evil.
Faith says I will keep the commandment even if Evil will not.
Faith knows that God will either prevent the murder -providing a way out of the situation -resolving the situation -or later resurrect the murdered.
I trust that very few will have that sort of faith -and would do me harm if they thought it necessary.
I trust that those without faith will be conquered by those who cause fear.
If someone puts a gun to my head and tells you to sin, please just say "no".
If they kill me, we can laugh about it later.
If you say "yes", I understand that you might not want to see me harmed -but I would rather die than see you or yours enslaved.
You might believe it false, but Daniel and his friends refused to sin -under penalty of death -and did not die.

Without Faith, Evil kicks the living **** out of peace, love and happiness.
Power is a consideration.
Peace, love and happiness require a righteous defender.

I'll trust No Man.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

False. Monotheists Believe there is one God and one Satan. They also believe God and the devil have many servants and angels.

I don't see how this speaks to my point.

Presumably, God's servants wouldn't lie to you and claim to be God. OTOH, Satan or his servants might. How many servants does Satan have? How many of them are capable of fooling a person?

 

[Thanda]

I don't see how this speaks to my point.

Presumably, God's servants wouldn't lie to you and claim to be God. OTOH, Satan or his servants might. How many servants does Satan have? How many of them are capable of fooling a person?

Can't argue with you there. That's Jesus said strait is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to eternal life, and few there be that find it.

 

[morphesium]

Actually these books have signs and proofs if they were examined carefully, but I don't think there would be an experiment that shows the truth.

Other than self-claiming that it is the book from God (and it could be well from satan) what proof is there? Claiming that he Created the sun, light etc etc are not proofs. Much of Quran is taken from the bible. That is why there are so many similarities.

But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?" He [Jesus] said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; (He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; [Quran 19:29

If such an incident ever happened (i dont' believe it to be true - since the bible also supports geocentric theory that the sun revolves round the earth and many like these which are now proven to be false), why do you think god made an infant talk like this? Because otherwise, those people wouldn't be accepted (mother and child) . So back in those days God needed to perform something magical acts to make people believe in this. However, these are just stories now. why can't God perform such miracles now? Did any infant told you to believe in Quran? This is the reason why I am asking you what if it is Satans play.
Everyone is made differently - even mono zygotic twins have very different brain wiring patterns. So claiming that everyone should think or behave or live in the same way or pattern is absurdity.
Monk of reason in his post titled Issue of Homosexuality sites this webpage Scientists May Have Finally Unlocked Puzzle of Why People Are Gay - US News
proves that homosexuality is a genetically passed on trait. The same reasons why some of us look like our parents or has some parental features etc. So what is the point in punishing someone when god himself has given these genes to him? If we have a cancerous gene in our dna, then depending up on the type of gene, there is a huge possibility (or certainty) that one day we would be a cancer patient. What if we have a Homosexuality genes hiding in us?( if so, I don't know how it affects my/our way of thinking- but it should).

If it is God who made us , has given us our morale, our consciousness and our genes so that we can fulfill what we ought to do, isn't religion preventing this from ever happening?

If that ever happened, than there will be more repentance because the unseen has been all revealed and it will be too late.

sorry, i can't agree with this.

Let me talk a bit about science. Human beings (collectively) has amassed a lot of scientific knowledge that it is impossible for an individual to master everything of it. You can learn a part of it and contribute to it and others in the field will scrutinize it before accepting its validity. Later one someone else might take this and may apply to a related or to a much diverse field and the process goes on.
If this is with science, he can put some experiments for us to prove the validity of a religion (that it is god sent) even without revealing everything. (Even an infant talking to me will suffice)

Rationally speaking, I find what you are suggesting here is impossible. Scriptures are fulled with stuff about Satan and how he functions and describing him as the worst enemy as he is the one who whispered to our father Adam and our mother Eve and caused the fall down from heaven. He is described as accursed by God. There is no way all of this is playing around and deceiving, that is if we were to talk about it.

These scriptures are just stories now- why accept it as true?

Moreover, religions don't split and fight one another. Every religion calls for peace. It is the human who makes use of religion and twists it to justify their cruel behavior which is generally motivated by personal and political reasons in the first place. If anything, it is people who are making religion look bad and not the other way.

Yes, religions do split. we now have many types of Christians , Hindus, Muslims now, all following the same book Bible, or Quran or whatsoever. Often the true intentions of the religions are long lost even though the religion still propagates. They say they are a lot more peaceful because of their religion but history and statistics show the opposite to be true. (just go on searching " atrocities of religion" / of Islam, Christianity, Hinduism etc). In the present world scenario, it is those people who keep a Quran at hand that is linked to much of world terrorism (approx 95%). If the said god hadn't revealed Quran, the world would have been a much better place to live in. No political motive can do this kind of terrorism in this scale .

The golden age of Islam was when science, poetry and other arts flourished. The reason why this happened is that people were granted freedom to think free. Will there be ever a Golden age for Islam in the future? There are very intelligent people in the Muslim world just like in any other population but what is keeping them away from thinking free ? - Religion.

All prophets that came along shared the same message which is worshiping God, the only deity. But people twisted it along the way, for their own personal benefits as I have previously said. Nevertheless, all the religion still say love one another explicitly. However, there are a million ways to twist scripture and taking it out of context to make it say "kill one another" in almost every religion. Religion is not to blame here, it is people to blame. People will always find a way to do what they want to do, whether religion was there or not.

There were great men in every society who has taken their society to great new heights in terms of morality, wisdom etc. It is the later narrow minded (satanic) people who had seen some kind of opportunity to acquire power or wealth who proclaimed that they are god sent and made a religion in their name. they would have twisted and amended more sentences to the holy text in order to keep their interests - and there it is the present holy text.

What about those people who don't have morale and are not capable of rational thinking? What about those people who lived at a time when survival was for the fittest? How people used to treat one another in that time?

If this is the argument you are putting forward allow me to tell you that you are wrong. Morales at that time was not ahead of people, the need of survival was the key point all people tried to achieve. It doesn't matter if you kill a person in the process or kill a 100. Tribes would fight over water, food and resources. This is actually till our very day. However people today are better at it in which they were suits and ties and have conferences feeding people wrong information to justify their cruel actions under the name of "peace". Religion was always there to teach people how to live together and care for one another and share things rather than the other way round. It is we who are abusing religion and not the other way round.

Morale and acts of kindness is always there ( at varying levels). it is there even in animals*. But there are very many psychological reasons that can suppress their morale - anger, lust, mob-psychology, etc. Often people will repent for their actions at a later time. Ofcourse there are morale less people - but these are psychological conditions like mad, saddism etc and accounts to a fraction of the soceity, never the majority.
If people were morale less at hearts, no wise men, no prophets could impart any morale to them.

* there were cases of human children being brought up by monkeys in the wild. acts of dogs breast feeding kittens etc.

Slavery was there because of humans, not because of religion. It is religion that called for setting them free.

Wrong. it is the peoples morale that called for setting salves free.
There are many sentences in Quran and bible that support slavery. For this reason it is religion that makes people to continue with slavery.


And there were have been cultures that has abolished slavery even before the birth of Jesus Christ. From wikipedia

• 3rd century BC: Ashoka abolishes slave trade and encourages people to treat slaves well but does not abolish slavery itself in the Maurya Empire, covering the majority of India, which was under his rule.[1]
• 221-206 BC: The Qin Dynasty's measures to eliminate the landowning aristocracy include the abolition of slavery and the establishment of a free peasantry who owed taxes and labor to the state. They also abolished primogeniture and discouraged serfdom.[2] The dynasty was overthrown in 206 BC and many of its laws were overturned.
• 17: Wang Mang, first and only emperor of the Xin Dynasty, usurped the Chinese throne and instituted a series of sweeping reforms, including the abolition of slavery and radical land reform.

Spoiler: here

The Muslim practice of having sex with captured women is reported often in the Hadith, where we learn that Muhammad's only objection to sex with captives was his condemnation of birth control.

Sahih Muslim 3371—We went out with Allah’s Messenger on the expedition to the Bi’l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing azl (withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah’s Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah’s Messenger, and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

Sahih al-Bukhari 4138—We went out with Allah’s Apostle for the invasion of Bun Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus [same as "azl" above]. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said: "How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah’s Apostle who is present among us? We asked (him) about it and he said: "It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul till the Day of Resurrection is predestined to exist, it will exist."

Sahih Muslim 3384—Jabir bin Abdullah reported that a person asked Allah’s Apostle saying: I have a slave-girl and I practice azl with her, whereupon Allah’s Messenger said: This cannot prevent that which Allah has decreed. The person then came (after some time) and said: Messenger of Allah, the slave-girl about whom I talked to you has conceived, whereupon Allah’s Messenger said: I am the servant of Allah and His Messenger.
Clearly, Muslims were taking full advantage of Muhammad's teachings about female captives and slave girls. Nevertheless, Muslims eventually captured women along with their husbands, so they wondered if Allah would allow them to have sex with these married captives (since adultery is otherwise forbidden in Islam).

Allah gives his answer in the Qur'an:

Qur’an 4:24—Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess ...
Here's the historical background for this verse:

Sunan Abu Dawud 2150—The Apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: “And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.” That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period.
Thus, the Qur’an allows men to have sex with their female captives and slave girls, and the Hadith provides numerous examples of how this was practiced. Yet we must follow this fact through to its logical conclusion. Muslims decided to have sex with their captives, whom they were later going to sell. Some of these captives were women whose husbands and families had been slaughtered by Muslims. Others had husbands who had been captured by Muslims. Would these women gladly consent to sexual intercourse with men who had killed their families or taken their families captive, and who were simply going to sell them into slavery when they arrived at the next town? Certainly not. But since the Qur’an and Muhammad authorized sex with these women (and said nothing about seeking their permission), we can only conclude that Muhammad allowed his followers to rape their captives.

Trust me, Even keeping some one as captive is not ethical or moral for me. what about you?

That is another aspect of discussion. You seem to take it for granted that religious holy book is wrong. You put that assumption and go with it. Well let me ask you, what if you were wrong? What if Quraan really doesn't go wrong? Did you ever think of that? Did you put it under the test? Did you read it and kept in mind that it is 1400 years old? Did you not see how can this book not be a production of men living 1400 years ago?

Dose't support evolution. There are very many sentences in Quran that are keeping low moral standards. and many many more.

If you did read it and did not see it, than let me tell you that I did see it. I accept the Quraan as a revelation from God that can never go wrong. Had I seen something immoral in it, than that would have not been my position. Quraan teachings are wonderful and morally they will always be ahead of us. Prophets were and will always be the best of examples for us to follow. Besides, the religion of God never needs a change because God has made it adaptable to every time and every place.

Then why according to your belief did god sent Moses then Jesus, then mohmmed?????

When parents teach their children, they teach them to adapt in every situation and culture. Children are given the overall guidelines and children use their mind and resources to put what they have learned into the context of their situation. Religion is similar. We have the overall guidelines and put them into our context. Religion doesn't cancel minds, but rather it encourages using it.

Then why is it the contribution of muslims to science and technology is far below than average??? why is it 95% of world terrorism contributed by muslims who just constitute 25% of world popultiaon??

Perhaps you see this gap between believers and you due the different perception of who God is. Am only trying to guess here. Don't know if that was accurate.

almost. Actually it is the different perception of "Gods message" that comes from.

I don't think you are accurately describing Halal meet. Actually in Halal, animals don't feel any pain.

I have gone through the video and there are many things in that video that i can't agree with.

The animal does feel pain. The animal is not brain dead for upto 40 seconds (large cattle).

The British Veterinary Association (BVA) and the RSPCA disagree with Halal slaughtering. The BVA says that “all animals should be effectively stunned before slaughter to improve the welfare of these animals” and the RSPCA says that killing animals without stunning them causes “unnecessary suffering”.

Effect of slaughter technique on bleed-out, blood in the trachea and blood splash in the lungs of cattle

Comparison of Halal slaughter with captive bolt stunning and neck cutting in cattle: exsanguination and quality parameters

Spoiler: halal myth

Author: Written by Anil, M.H.; Yesildere, T.; Aksu, H.; Matur, E.; McKinstry, J.L.; Weaver, H.R.; Erdogan, O.; Hughes, S.; Mason, C.

Journal: Animal Welfare, Volume 15, Number 4, November 2006 , pp. 325-330(6)

Abstract: Some supporters of religious slaughter methods claim that efficiency of bleed-out is adversely affected by stunning. Our previous study carried out in sheep at an abattoir comparing the Muslim method of slaughter without stunning with pre-slaughter stunning using a captive bolt or by electrical methods concluded that bleed-out is not adversely affected by stunning, nor improved by a neck cut without stunning. In this paper, a similar study carried out in cattle is reported. In this study, captive bolt stunning followed by neck cutting was compared with the Muslim slaughter method without stunning. The total blood loss, percentage blood loss expressed as a percentage of live weight and percentage loss of estimated total blood were calculated and compared between each group. In addition, the time periods taken to reach 25, 50, 75 and 90% of total blood loss were also calculated. There was no significant difference between the two stunning groups for any of these blood loss variables. The results, subjected to statistical analyses, also showed no apparent difference in the PCV levels and meat quality parameters between treatments. These results confirm the findings with sheep and show that the bleed-out is not adversely affected by captive bolt stunning, nor improved by a neck cut without stunning in cattle. It is anticipated that these findings may help promote the use of stunning methods during Halal slaughter.

Actually in the video he claims that "it is in the blood that all toxins and viruses are present. That is the reason why when one goes to a hospital the doctor checks the blood and not feces or urine or other substances"

1. It is not for this reason why the blood is checked. They may check the blood for ESR - erythrocyte (red blood cell) sedimentation Ratio. If there is an infection, the erythrocytes sediments at a high rate and it accumulates at the bottom.
2. may check blood for counts - platelets, different white blood cells etc.
3. May check the blood for the presence of various antibodies and so on.

If the doctor wants to find something specific he may suggesting for other things to be tested - feces, urine or consider aspirating tissue like thyroid or other tissue. One of the biggest advantage of testing blood is that it is easily obtained.



-

 

[Lyndon]

For about a thousand years, Science advanced much more in Muslim countries than in Europe, our numbers are Arabic numerals, for God's sake, where do you come up with this nonsense, have you even read about the History of Islam???

Thanks to the Prophet Mohammad instructions, people were brushing their teeth and washing their ***, regular bathing etc 1400 years ago, Europeans by comparison were barbarians at the time.