Are Blood Transfusions Really Life Saving?

[McBell]

Ignorance is a poor substitute for an opinion.

interesting.
especially given that the OP video does not state what you claim it states....

 

[JustWondering]

You do realize that the person you are responding to is not a JW, don't you? He hates JW's probably as much as you do.

I don't hate the deluded, I hate their delusion.

 

[JustWondering]

You said,


I said,


You said,


Like I said,






Deeje is correct in her statement, I am not now, nor have ever been a JW. She is wrong in her assumption though. I 'do not hate' JW's. What I hate is the deception they love and are taught, that's what I am out to disprove.

Example: Their explanation of the "spirit directed" governing body of Jehovah's witnesses does not make sense to any independent thinking individual. They claim this "slave" is to feed them the right food at the "proper time". So they have no problem with their governing body teaching falsely for many years, because it wasn't the "proper time" for them to get the truth.

Example: The following was taught as "truth" from the Bible, from this "spirit directed" slave for 90+ years, apparently until it was the "proper time" for them to know the "real" truth.

*** w13 7/15 p. 8 par. 19 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
19 In review, what have we learned? In the beginning of this article, we raised three “when” questions. We first considered that the great tribulation did not begin in 1914 but will start when the United Nations attacks Babylon the Great. Then, we reviewed why Jesus’ judgment of the sheep and the goats did not begin in 1914 but will occur during the great tribulation. Finally, we examined why Jesus’ arrival to appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings did not occur in 1919 but will take place during the great tribulation. So, then, all three “whens” apply to the same future time period—the great tribulation. How does this adjusted view further affect our understanding of the illustration of the faithful slave? Also, how does it affect our understanding of other parables, or illustrations, of Jesus that are being fulfilled during this time of the end? These important questions will be considered in the following articles.


They claim to be "spirit directed", and "fallible", imperfect men, but their fallibility and imperfection is greater than the direction of the spirit. "IF" they are correct in their claim, that means that the "God of truth" allows His "true" church to be deceived by the teachings of the 'slave' He appointed until He thinks it's time to show them the real truth.

Your posts were ambiguous to me, I assumed you were defending JW teachings. My mistake.

 

[Olinda]

="Deeje, post: 4755853, member: 18814"]It would be helpful if you could use quote boxes when replying, your posts are confusing when you make it all one, both post and reply.


A religion that leaves matters outside of scripture is rather pathetic. Why have a religion if you are going to ignore its teachings?


Were not all humans used by God fallible? It didn't stop him from using them though, did it? He never left his people without the guidance of his trusted servants. We trust the governing body as far as we can. But if for some reason the GB began to deviated from the scriptures, and tried to teach us contradictory things and pass it off as scripture, we would be wary. This is what happened to Judaism as well as to Christianity. Men began to lead the people away from Jehovah but they allowed themselves to be taken down that path by accepting things that were not true. Ignorance was the culprit back then....we are not ignorant any more...except by choice.


In the present situation, there are more people needing help from these agencies than there has ever been. The Syrian crisis alone is putting a strain on every country to which they have fled or attempted to flee. "Overwhelming" doesn't even come close to describing how these agencies feel. Can humans fix this? Or is it humans who are causing all this?


I can only shake my head at a comment like this. If the "punishment" or "pressure to conform" is what is keeping a person from breaking God's clearly stated law, and not actual the command from God itself, then that person is wasting their time calling themselves a Witness of Jehovah. We obey God because we love him, not because we think he is the big policeman in the sky with deputies in every congregation. (Psalm 40:8)


Spontaneous remission comes as a result of the immune system actually doing what it should in spite of the "treatments" offered by the medical profession, often not because of them.

Cancer patients could have been cured decades ago if 'big pharma' had not demonized the use of cannabis as a medicine. This plant has medicinal properties that have been known for centuries. But try growing it in you garden to treat a family member who might be suffering from chronic illness and watch the jack booted drug squad heavies arrive and knock your door down. This is a harmless plant and yet it is treated as the greatest scourge in society.....It's from God's pharmacy...and it works to cure and treat many diseases.
Yet we are denied access to it...why? because there is big profits to be made in the "ill health" industry. How dare anyone uncover a conspiracy!

As for the cost of saline....I had my dog to the vet last week for surgery and they charged me almost $70 for a bag of saline. Imagine how much they charge in a hospital for humans!



You didn't read what I wrote....there are many doctors onside with JW's in the treatment of children and adults without blood. It is the old school, uninformed, "can't be told die-hards" who want to push blood on people....60% of whom didn't even need it.



As long as we can see it, and as long as doctors keep coming over to our viewpoint, what you do or believe is of little consequence to me.

The medical profession itself has reached its conclusions on the use of blood as a "life saving measure", and found then to be unnecessary and even harmful in the majority of cases. The figures don't lie...the studies reveal it all.....many doctors refuse to acknowledge it. I'm glad that they will not be chosen to treat me or my family.

Thanks, @Deeje, I'll use quote boxes from now on.

A religion that leaves matters outside of scripture is rather pathetic. Why have a religion if you are going to ignore its teachings? [\QUOTE]

Interesting thought. I'd supposed that a religion provides a fundamental ideology and the people adhering to it largely agree with that worldview and also enjoy associating with like-minded friends and family. Perhaps this deserves its own thread.

Were not all humans used by God fallible? It didn't stop him from using them though, did it? He never left his people without the guidance of his trusted servants. We trust the governing body as far as we can. But if for some reason the GB began to deviated from the scriptures, and tried to teach us contradictory things and pass it off as scripture, we would be wary. This is what happened to Judaism as well as to Christianity. Men began to lead the people away from Jehovah but they allowed themselves to be taken down that path by accepting things that were not true. Ignorance was the culprit back then....we are not ignorant any more...except by choice.[\QUOTE]

My point was, why do you expect aid agencies (which do fantastic work) to help everyone? And just because of a phrase like 'the age of reason', all people to master their aggressive and acquisitive tendencies? Why is our best not good enough? Particularly given the progress in food technology, science and education.

In the present situation, there are more people needing help from these agencies than there has ever been. The Syrian crisis alone is putting a strain on every country to which they have fled or attempted to flee. "Overwhelming" doesn't even come close to describing how these agencies feel. Can humans fix this? Or is it humans who are causing all this? [\QUOTE]

Yes, humans cause and contribute to dire situations. And humans, worldly humans at that, have instigated and funded aid agencies. (Does your religion contribute to this effort?) AND, the Syrian crisis is small compared to the suffering caused by the tsunami in 2004. Was this caused by humans? Or God? Or who?

I can only shake my head at a comment like this. If the "punishment" or "pressure to conform" is what is keeping a person from breaking God's clearly stated law, and not actual the command from God itself, then that person is wasting their time calling themselves a Witness of Jehovah. We obey God because we love him, not because we think he is the big policeman in the sky with deputies in every congregation. (Psalm 40:8) [\QUOTE]

Then I don't understand why disassociated jws are shunned.
"By cutting off contact with the disfellowshipped or disassociated one, you are showing that you hate the attitudes and actions that led to that outcome. However, you are also showing that you love the wrongdoer enough to do what is best for him or her. Your loyalty to Jehovah may increase the likelihood that the disciplined one will repent and return to Jehovah." Watchtower 2011 Feb 15 p.32
That is, the loneliness of the shunned person may lead her/him to 'repent'. Where is the love of God or of fellow men here? (shakes head)

Spontaneous remission comes as a result of the immune system actually doing what it should in spite of the "treatments" offered by the medical profession, often not because of them.[\QUOTE]

Obviously, not 'because of them' or it wouldn't be spontaneous, would it? So why do we need doctors at all? Prior to their tampering, (in your perspective as I understand it) the immune system is free to work and we shouldn't get sick.

Cancer patients could have been cured decades ago if 'big pharma' had not demonized the use of cannabis as a medicine. This plant has medicinal properties that have been known for centuries. But try growing it in you garden to treat a family member who might be suffering from chronic illness and watch the jack booted drug squad heavies arrive and knock your door down. This is a harmless plant and yet it is treated as the greatest scourge in society.....It's from God's pharmacy...and it works to cure and treat many diseases.[\QUOTE]
You do like a bit of drama, eh? But for balance:
1. Google 'Marijuana outlawed California' or anything like that and find out the actual history.
2. 'God's Pharmacy' contains hundreds of worthless, poisonous and hallucinogenic plants.
3. I do understand that cannabis can relieve symptoms of some very serious conditions. But what you you think it cures?

The medical profession itself has reached its conclusions on the use of blood as a "life saving measure", and found then to be unnecessary and even harmful in the majority of cases. The figures don't lie...the studies reveal it all.....many doctors refuse to acknowledge it. I'm glad that they will not be chosen to treat me or my family.

More drama. . .based on one video. You have asked many times whether others watched the video, have you actually read the links posted by Kelly of the Phoenix?

 

[Deeje]

Thanks, @Deeje, I'll use quote boxes from now on.

It appears that you have used the wrong "slash: (\) Please try closing the quote with (/). Computers only speak one language. That was actually more confusing than your previous attempts.

I will try to decipher the rest.....

A religion that leaves matters outside of scripture is rather pathetic. Why have a religion if you are going to ignore its teachings?

Interesting thought. I'd supposed that a religion provides a fundamental ideology and the people adhering to it largely agree with that worldview and also enjoy associating with like-minded friends and family. Perhaps this deserves its own thread.

Feel free to start one. "Religion" is not what matters...it's what God says that is conveyed and interpreted by religion that should guide people in the best way to live. I believe that Jesus taught us the best way to live...to love God.....to love our fellowman, and to make our religion a positive and influential guide in our lives.

Were not all humans used by God fallible? It didn't stop him from using them though, did it? He never left his people without the guidance of his trusted servants. We trust the governing body as far as we can. But if for some reason the GB began to deviated from the scriptures, and tried to teach us contradictory things and pass it off as scripture, we would be wary. This is what happened to Judaism as well as to Christianity. Men began to lead the people away from Jehovah but they allowed themselves to be taken down that path by accepting things that were not true. Ignorance was the culprit back then....we are not ignorant any more...except by choice.

My point was, why do you expect aid agencies (which do fantastic work) to help everyone? And just because of a phrase like 'the age of reason', all people to master their aggressive and acquisitive tendencies? Why is our best not good enough? Particularly given the progress in food technology, science and education.

The progress we have made in food production and the advances in communication should have brought nations together for the common good, sharing resources and eliminating poverty and preventable diseases.....but political ideologies tend to create gaping chasms in human relationships which cannot be bridged even by the best intentioned humanitarians. Self interest dominates. "Man dominates man to his injury" as Solomon said.

When we are raised to treat certain people as beneath us, that indoctrination doesn't seem to be able to be "bred out" of the human psyche. If we could love, half as well as we hate; save life as well as we take life.....there would be no difference between humans that could not be overcome. Jehovah's Witnesses have proven that all races and nationalities can co-exist in peace and unity, exhibiting genuine love for one another because we all worship the same God and follow the same teachings. (John 13:34, 35) We would like to teach others how to experience that.

Yes, humans cause and contribute to dire situations. And humans, worldly humans at that, have instigated and funded aid agencies. (Does your religion contribute to this effort?) AND, the Syrian crisis is small compared to the suffering caused by the tsunami in 2004. Was this caused by humans? Or God? Or who?

Many of the problems that plague the world are man made. God does not do anything to cause human suffering but there is a reason why he permits it. (James 1:14, 15)
My brothers are usually first on the scene with aid for their brothers when natural disasters strike. We have a central fund set up for disaster relief and care for those who have lost their homes, their possessions or loved ones. When they have done all they can for those of their spiritual family, then they try to help as many others as possible.(Gal 6:7-10)

http://tv.jw.org/#en/video/VODOurActivities/pub-jwbrd_201505_3_VIDEO

Then I don't understand why disassociated jws are shunned.
"By cutting off contact with the disfellowshipped or disassociated one, you are showing that you hate the attitudes and actions that led to that outcome. However, you are also showing that you love the wrongdoer enough to do what is best for him or her. Your loyalty to Jehovah may increase the likelihood that the disciplined one will repent and return to Jehovah." Watchtower 2011 Feb 15 p.32
That is, the loneliness of the shunned person may lead her/him to 'repent'. Where is the love of God or of fellow men here? (shakes head)

The parable of the prodigal son demonstrates that we are to let those who are rebellious depart from our ranks. If they are dedicated baptized Witnesses and they choose to disregard the vows they made to God of their own volition, and break Jehovah's laws unrepentantly, then we will not support their actions nor will we condone them. They knew the rules when they signed up. We didn't spring it on them afterwards.

The father in Jesus' parable made no attempt to contact his wayward son, but gave him his inheritance and let him go. It didn't mean that the father hated his son, but he allowed him to make that decision. It wasn't until the son hit rock bottom and realized what he had given up and what he had lost as a result of his own selfishness and stupidity, that he decided to return home, chastened and humbled. It was his contrite spirit in returning, that had the father running to meet him. This is Jehovah.

Jesus and the apostles leave us in no doubt as to what we should do with a "rotten apple". It is not permitted to stay and spoil the whole barrel.

1 Cor 5:13-19:
"In my letter I wrote you to stop keeping company with sexually immoral people, 10 not meaning entirely with the sexually immoral people of this world or the greedy people or extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, you would actually have to get out of the world. 11 But now I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”

Excommunication is nothing new in Christianity.....the very word tells you what it means....."no communication"...loss of fellowship with your former spiritual family. What is not to understand?

Like the prodigal son, we hope that the loss of fellowship will move them to return....many do, stronger and genuinely humble for the lesson.

Spontaneous remission comes as a result of the immune system actually doing what it should in spite of the "treatments" offered by the medical profession, often not because of them.

Obviously, not 'because of them' or it wouldn't be spontaneous, would it?

When the immune system functions as it should, and sometimes does, a previous condition can seemingly disappear, (a spontaneous cure) but the human body has amazing capacity for healing itself. Underutilized IMO.
It doesn't mean that we don't need doctors, but that some doctors are too set in their ways and refuse to see reason....or acknowledge evidence, even from their own colleagues. Why do you think there is such a strong shift towards alternative health care?

So why do we need doctors at all? Prior to their tampering, (in your perspective as I understand it) the immune system is free to work and we shouldn't get sick.

Adam and his wife had perfect immune systems when God created them, but in exchange for falling for a lie, they lost their perfection and now the human body is subject to disease and malfunction, often resulting in death. This is our inheritance. (Rom 5:12) God did not create us to get old, get sick or die. In the world to come, there will be no need of doctors....or undertakers for that matter. (Rev 21:2-5)

Cancer patients could have been cured decades ago if 'big pharma' had not demonized the use of cannabis as a medicine. This plant has medicinal properties that have been known for centuries. But try growing it in you garden to treat a family member who might be suffering from chronic illness and watch the jack booted drug squad heavies arrive and knock your door down. This is a harmless plant and yet it is treated as the greatest scourge in society.....It's from God's pharmacy...and it works to cure and treat many diseases.

You do like a bit of drama, eh? But for balance:
1. Google 'Marijuana outlawed California' or anything like that and find out the actual history.
2. 'God's Pharmacy' contains hundreds of worthless, poisonous and hallucinogenic plants.
3. I do understand that cannabis can relieve symptoms of some very serious conditions. But what you you think it cures?

Cannabis has great curative properties in the treatment of many cancers...the anecdotal evidence is there, and when used for epilepsy, can eliminate seizures altogether. (Try Googling Rick Simpson's cannabis oil.)
Cannabis has been used for centuries by native peoples in many nations. It has a local genus of the plant on every continent.

The fact that it has been abused as a recreational drug does not detract from its medicinal properties, kept from the ailing public so that drug companies can amass their fortunes at our expense. They don't want "cures" because there is no financial gain in that.

More drama. . .based on one video.

But it is not just one doctor in one country or hospital....is it? This is a groundswell that is taking place all over the world.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/videos/no-blood-medicine-meets-challenge/

You have asked many times whether others watched the video, have you actually read the links posted by Kelly of the Phoenix?

We already know what the orthodox opinion is...this is the medical profession trying to reeducate itself. These are specialist in their field who are trying to get the message across to those who are stuck in the past.

Please Google bloodless medicine and surgery and see for yourself....

Do you want the truth or would you rather stick with the error? Your choice.

 

[Olinda]

It appears that you have used the wrong "slash: (\) Please try closing the quote with (/). Computers only speak one language. That was actually more confusing than your previous attempts.

I will try to decipher the rest.....



Feel free to start one. "Religion" is not what matters...it's what God says that is conveyed and interpreted by religion that should guide people in the best way to live. I believe that Jesus taught us the best way to live...to love God.....to love our fellowman, and to make our religion a positive and influential guide in our lives.



The progress we have made in food production and the advances in communication should have brought nations together for the common good, sharing resources and eliminating poverty and preventable diseases.....but political ideologies tend to create gaping chasms in human relationships which cannot be bridged even by the best intentioned humanitarians. Self interest dominates. "Man dominates man to his injury" as Solomon said.

When we are raised to treat certain people as beneath us, that indoctrination doesn't seem to be able to be "bred out" of the human psyche. If we could love, half as well as we hate; save life as well as we take life.....there would be no difference between humans that could not be overcome. Jehovah's Witnesses have proven that all races and nationalities can co-exist in peace and unity, exhibiting genuine love for one another because we all worship the same God and follow the same teachings. (John 13:34, 35) We would like to teach others how to experience that.


Many of the problems that plague the world are man made. God does not do anything to cause human suffering but there is a reason why he permits it. (James 1:14, 15)
My brothers are usually first on the scene with aid for their brothers when natural disasters strike. We have a central fund set up for disaster relief and care for those who have lost their homes, their possessions or loved ones. When they have done all they can for those of their spiritual family, then they try to help as many others as possible.(Gal 6:7-10)

http://tv.jw.org/#en/video/VODOurActivities/pub-jwbrd_201505_3_VIDEO



The parable of the prodigal son demonstrates that we are to let those who are rebellious depart from our ranks. If they are dedicated baptized Witnesses and they choose to disregard the vows they made to God of their own volition, and break Jehovah's laws unrepentantly, then we will not support their actions nor will we condone them. They knew the rules when they signed up. We didn't spring it on them afterwards.

The father in Jesus' parable made no attempt to contact his wayward son, but gave him his inheritance and let him go. It didn't mean that the father hated his son, but he allowed him to make that decision. It wasn't until the son hit rock bottom and realized what he had given up and what he had lost as a result of his own selfishness and stupidity, that he decided to return home, chastened and humbled. It was his contrite spirit in returning, that had the father running to meet him. This is Jehovah.

Jesus and the apostles leave us in no doubt as to what we should do with a "rotten apple". It is not permitted to stay and spoil the whole barrel.

1 Cor 5:13-19:
"In my letter I wrote you to stop keeping company with sexually immoral people, 10 not meaning entirely with the sexually immoral people of this world or the greedy people or extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, you would actually have to get out of the world. 11 But now I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”

Excommunication is nothing new in Christianity.....the very word tells you what it means....."no communication"...loss of fellowship with your former spiritual family. What is not to understand?

Like the prodigal son, we hope that the loss of fellowship will move them to return....many do, stronger and genuinely humble for the lesson.


When the immune system functions as it should, and sometimes does, a previous condition can seemingly disappear, (a spontaneous cure) but the human body has amazing capacity for healing itself. Underutilized IMO.
It doesn't mean that we don't need doctors, but that some doctors are too set in their ways and refuse to see reason....or acknowledge evidence, even from their own colleagues. Why do you think there is such a strong shift towards alternative health care?



Adam and his wife had perfect immune systems when God created them, but in exchange for falling for a lie, they lost their perfection and now the human body is subject to disease and malfunction, often resulting in death. This is our inheritance. (Rom 5:12) God did not create us to get old, get sick or die. In the world to come, there will be no need of doctors....or undertakers for that matter. (Rev 21:2-5)



Cannabis has great curative properties in the treatment of many cancers...the anecdotal evidence is there, and when used for epilepsy, can eliminate seizures altogether. (Try Googling Rick Simpson's cannabis oil.)
Cannabis has been used for centuries by native peoples in many nations. It has a local genus of the plant on every continent.

The fact that it has been abused as a recreational drug does not detract from its medicinal properties, kept from the ailing public so that drug companies can amass their fortunes at our expense. They don't want "cures" because there is no financial gain in that.


But it is not just one doctor in one country or hospital....is it? This is a groundswell that is taking place all over the world.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/videos/no-blood-medicine-meets-challenge/



We already know what the orthodox opinion is...this is the medical profession trying to reeducate itself. These are specialist in their field who are trying to get the message across to those who are stuck in the past.

Please Google bloodless medicine and surgery and see for yourself....

Do you want the truth or would you rather stick with the error? Your choice.

Thanks for the detailed reply @Deeje and sorry about the formatting.

Firstly, as for a new thread, I'll leave that till I'm sure I can use quotes at least.

The progress we have made in food production and the advances in communication should have brought nations together for the common good, sharing resources and eliminating poverty and preventable diseases...

It would be nice if that had happened, but what is the source for your "should"? Why would advances in technology automatically bring about absolute improvements in morality?

When we are raised to treat certain people as beneath us, that indoctrination doesn't seem to be able to be "bred out" of the human psyche.

Again, perhaps you are setting the bar a bit high. People are still being raised like that today, and many parents were also raised this way. Any farmer will tell you that breeding out a trait takes a lot longer than that! in fact, it is more about teaching and the values of the society than about 'breeding'. . .but it still takes time.

Jehovah's Witnesses have proven that all races and nationalities can co-exist in peace and unity, exhibiting genuine love for one another because we all worship the same God and follow the same teachings. (John 13:34, 35) We would like to teach others how to experience that.

Are you seriously saying that non-Jehovah's witnesses are incapable of coexisting peacefully with people of a different race??? So long as you realise that any single example of such cooperation proves you wrong.

My brothers are usually first on the scene with aid for their brothers when natural disasters strike. We have a central fund set up for disaster relief and care for those who have lost their homes, their possessions or loved ones. When they have done all they can for those of their spiritual family, then they try to help as many others as possible.(Gal 6:7-10)

It seems to me a pity that your 'genuine love' is only for your religious family and the rest of mankind comes a poor second. Aid after a disaster should surely be allocated as to need, not religion.

Jesus and the apostles leave us in no doubt as to what we should do with a "rotten apple". It is not permitted to stay and spoil the whole barrel.

So the 'genuine love' is in fact not 'unconditional love'. It depends on the person loved continuing to share your beliefs and practices. Also I haven't seen the 'rotten apple' analogy in the Bible. Jesus sought out and spent time with social outcasts and took no harm from that.

It doesn't mean that we don't need doctors, but that some doctors are too set in their ways and refuse to see reason....or acknowledge evidence, even from their own colleagues. Why do you think there is such a strong shift towards alternative health care?

This time I almost agree with you! I'll always try something like echinacea and diet improvement before prescribed medicine and also seek at least a second opinion for a serious condition. That is simply taking personal responsibility for my health. However alternative health is itself often 'big business' (think Blackmores). Every approach must be considered and evaluated, and the many knowledgeable and dedicated doctors and research scientists should not be swept aside for religious or other preferences.

Cannabis has great curative properties in the treatment of many cancers...the anecdotal evidence is there, and when used for epilepsy, can eliminate seizures altogether. (Try Googling Rick Simpson's cannabis oil.)

Anecdotal evidence = no evidence. The benefit in treating seizures, however, is well known.

The fact that it has been abused as a recreational drug does not detract from its medicinal properties, kept from the ailing public so that drug companies can amass their fortunes at our expense. They don't want "cures" because there is no financial gain in that.

More rhetoric, no evidence. Pharma companies could modify and market cannabis extracts as they did with,for example, valerian. That it was a prohibited substance had other reasons; I gave you the reference to google. At least you put 'cure' in inverted commas, since you haven't established any.

But it is not just one doctor in one country or hospital....is it? This is a groundswell that is taking place all over the world.

That bloodless procedures would be preferable when appropriate is clear. That it isn't always appropriate is also clear. If that's what you call a groundswell, fine.

We already know what the orthodox opinion is

I'll take that to mean that you have not and will not read the sources. Why do you expect open mindedness from others when you will not consider their information?

Do you want the truth or would you rather stick with the error? Your choice.

Personally I wouldn't even label researched facts 'the truth'. We learn new things every day. Whenever your religion changes its teachings there are new 'truths' and new 'errors'. I'd find that hard to live with.

 

[Falvlun]

I don't know what the situation is like in other countries, but when you fill in a hospital admission form here in Australia, they ask if you have EVER had a blood transfusion.
Do you know why they would ask that question?

They also likely ask if you've ever had any surgeries. That doesn't mean I shouldn't have had that appendectomy. Medical history is important for multiple reasons.

Transfusion history is important, from a medical laboratory technician (that's my job!), for a couple of reasons:

1) If it was recent, then it is possible you still have two types of blood circulating your body. This could make blood typing tricky or less reliable.

2) Again, if it was recent, different blood products (like packed cells vs whole blood, washed cells, fresh frozen plasma, platelet concentrate, etc) might be preferred to avoid concentration of undesirable components or too much volume.

3) the more blood transfusions you have, the more likely you are to develop antibodies to various antigens found in blood. This makes it evem more critical to make sure to give you the correct blood type to avoid a transfusion reaction.

 

[Deeje]

Thanks for the detailed reply @Deeje and sorry about the formatting.

Firstly, as for a new thread, I'll leave that till I'm sure I can use quotes at least.

Looks like you've nailed it.

It would be nice if that had happened, but what is the source for your "should"? Why would advances in technology automatically bring about absolute improvements in morality?

Not technology per se...but communication and educational standards "should" produce people who can think farther than the end of their noses as to how their behavior will affect others, not just in the short term, but generations into the future.

No nation is isolated from the rest of the world, so its either "get our heads together and solve these problems" or "go on killing each other and demonstrate how short sighted and haughty we are". We have it within our power to share and to recognize each other as fellow humans first, and nationality or religion as inconsequential details. Why do you think we can't achieve this right now, despite the knowledge of all the geniuses in the world, we never advance in this area?

Again, perhaps you are setting the bar a bit high. People are still being raised like that today, and many parents were also raised this way. Any farmer will tell you that breeding out a trait takes a lot longer than that! in fact, it is more about teaching and the values of the society than about 'breeding'. . .but it still takes time.

It isn't what we are breeding "out" that is the only problem...it is what is being bred "in" at an alarming pace in this age of internet communication. The gap between kids and their parents has never been wider.

Are you seriously saying that non-Jehovah's witnesses are incapable of coexisting peacefully with people of a different race??? So long as you realize that any single example of such cooperation proves you wrong.

Is that what I said?
I was referring to our global brotherhood which is unique in the world, in that it doesn't have racial or local 'fusions' in what is accepted as truth in any nation. So many "Christian" religions are blended with the former religion of their members. This is especially true of the Roman Catholic Church where the church accepted converts who brought their former ways with them. Gentiles were not permitted to bring their former worship into either Israel or Christianity. (2 Cor 6:14-18)

It seems to me a pity that your 'genuine love' is only for your religious family and the rest of mankind comes a poor second. Aid after a disaster should surely be allocated as to need, not religion.

We are proud to take care of our own. We have had many of those whom we have helped tell us that their church did nothing to support them after a natural disaster. If we all took care of our own, then that would be Christianity in action.
As Paul said in Gal 6:9, 10
"So let us not give up in doing what is fine, for in due time we will reap if we do not tire out. So, then, as long as we have the opportunity, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith."

Since we do not see Christendom as being "related to us in the faith" at all, we concentrate on helping our own brothers first and then we look for others to offer assistance, regardless of their faith.

So the 'genuine love' is in fact not 'unconditional love'. It depends on the person loved continuing to share your beliefs and practices. Also I haven't seen the 'rotten apple' analogy in the Bible. Jesus sought out and spent time with social outcasts and took no harm from that.

God does not offer unconditional love...where did you get that idea?
Humans have had conditions placed upon them since day 1.

To his people Jehovah said:
Deut 30:15-20:
“See, I do put before you today life and good, and death and bad. 16 If you listen to the commandments of Jehovah your God that I am commanding you today, by loving Jehovah your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his judicial decisions, then you will live and multiply, and Jehovah your God will bless you in the land you are going to possess.
17 “But if your heart turns away and you do not listen and you are enticed and bow down to other gods and serve them, 18 I tell you today that you will certainly perish. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to possess. 19 I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land that Jehovah swore to give to your forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

Obey and live...disobey and die. These are conditions attached to life from the time of man's creation. If God loved us unconditionally, then he would not care what we did or believed...he cares a great deal.

This time I almost agree with you! I'll always try something like echinacea and diet improvement before prescribed medicine and also seek at least a second opinion for a serious condition. That is simply taking personal responsibility for my health. However alternative health is itself often 'big business' (think Blackmores). Every approach must be considered and evaluated, and the many knowledgeable and dedicated doctors and research scientists should not be swept aside for religious or other preferences.

Doctors are not God. They make mistakes and they cannot foretell the outcome of any procedure with any certainty. Ill health is big business on both sides.
On the other hand, God knows everything about us and what we should and shouldn't do. He demonstrated this in the hygiene laws he gave to Israel. They had no idea why God commanded them to bury their excrement outside the camp or why certain foods were "unclean" and not to be consumed. We know why now, but God was always right. It has been demonstrated now that he was right about consuming blood as well. Science and medicine are not always the best judges of what is good for us. Obeying the Creator is NOT optional for us.

Anecdotal evidence = no evidence. The benefit in treating seizures, however, is well known.

Anecdotal evidence is all we have because the system will not allow "cures" to replace "treatments". Any trials that prove to be anywhere near a "cure" are immediately withdrawn and patients told they will have to wait 10 years until they are "approved"....by then the people who might have benefited are long dead after years of suffering and everyone else has forgotten.

More rhetoric, no evidence. Pharma companies could modify and market cannabis extracts as they did with, for example, valerian. That it was a prohibited substance had other reasons; I gave you the reference to google. At least you put 'cure' in inverted commas, since you haven't established any.

I wonder what would happen if we were allowed to grow our own cannabis for medicinal purposes and were permitted to make our own medicine to cure or treat our own maladies?
How much anecdotal evidence would then be common knowledge? They won't allow us to find out. Do you know why? Cannabis a harmless plant. No one has ever died from an overdose of cannabis....that is how dangerous it is. People can die from alcohol poisoning though, so why isn't alcohol illegal? People die from abusing tobacco, so why is it legal?

That bloodless procedures would be preferable when appropriate is clear. That it isn't always appropriate is also clear. If that's what you call a groundswell, fine.

If whole hospitals dedicated to bloodless medicine are now found all over the world, then what are we to think? This is the medical profession itself turning its back on the past and walking away from it.

I'll take that to mean that you have not and will not read the sources. Why do you expect open mindedness from others when you will not consider their information?

I have examined both sides of this issue myself, very thoroughly. Do you actually think I would have the temerity to post an OP like this without researching it?

Whenever your religion changes its teachings there are new 'truths' and new 'errors'. I'd find that hard to live with.

They are called adjustments....Jesus had a few for his disciples too. (John 16:1-13) There were things revealed in their own time, when God was ready to make them known.They were not "new" but clarified.
We have no problem with that.

 

[JoStories]

Most anesthetics are delivered via IVs. It's only logical that someone trained to find a vein to put something in would also be able to find a vein to take something out.

I am not sure where this came from but I will say this...at least in this country, most IV's are placed by RNs and most blood is also given by RNs with the exception of in the OR and even there, it is often given by RNs. We, too, are trained and trained well.

 

[JoStories]

Wow. OP is off his rocker.

I know three people whose lives were saved by blood transfusions. Two of them are my cousins who were in a very bad car crash and lost huge amounts of blood. If you want to think blood transfusions don't save lives, that's your ridiculous prerogative, but please just know that you're wrong.

While I do agree with you that blood does save lives, your first comments are unfair, IMO. Faith is a thing believed in in the absence of proof and while I strongly disagree with that faith's ideals regarding blood, I don't think saying they are 'off their rocker' is fair either.

 

[Deeje]

They also likely ask if you've ever had any surgeries. That doesn't mean I shouldn't have had that appendectomy. Medical history is important for multiple reasons.

Transfusion history is important, from a medical laboratory technician (that's my job!), for a couple of reasons:

1) If it was recent, then it is possible you still have two types of blood circulating your body. This could make blood typing tricky or less reliable.

2) Again, if it was recent, different blood products (like packed cells vs whole blood, washed cells, fresh frozen plasma, platelet concentrate, etc) might be preferred to avoid concentration of undesirable components or too much volume.

3) the more blood transfusions you have, the more likely you are to develop antibodies to various antigens found in blood. This makes it evem more critical to make sure to give you the correct blood type to avoid a transfusion reaction.

As a lab technician, what is your training? Who teaches you what you now know?

People know that transfusions carry risks but do they ever bother to check out what those risks actually are?


"Possible risks of blood transfusions

Although blood transfusions can be life-saving, they are not without risks. Infections were once the main risk, but they have become extremely rare with careful testing and donor screening. Transfusion reactions and other non-infectious problems are now more common.

When you are getting a transfusion of any kind, it’s very important that you let your nurse know right away if you notice any changes in how you feel, such as itching, shivering, headache, chest or back pain, throat tightness, nausea, dizziness, trouble breathing, or other problems. You should report any that happen in the next few days, too.

Transfusion reactions
Blood transfusions sometimes cause transfusion reactions. There are several types of reactions and some are worse than others. Some reactions happen as soon as the transfusion is started, while others take several days or even longer to develop.

Many precautions are taken before a transfusion is started to keep reactions from happening. The blood type of the unit is checked many times, and the unit is cross-matched to be sure that it matches the blood type of the person who will get it. After that, both a nurse and blood bank lab technician look at the information about the patient and the information on the unit of blood (or blood component) before it’s released. The information is double-checked once more in the patient’s presence before the transfusion is started.

Allergic reaction
This is the most common reaction. It happens during the transfusion when the body reacts to plasma proteins or other substances in the donated blood. Usually the only symptoms are hives and itching, which can be treated with antihistamines like diphenhydramine (Benadryl). In rare cases these reactions can be more serious.

Febrile reaction
The person gets a sudden fever during or within 24 hours of the transfusion. Headache, nausea, chills, or a general feeling of discomfort may come with the fever. Acetaminophen (Tylenol) may help these symptoms.

These reactions are often the body’s response to white blood cells in the donated blood. They are more common in people who have had transfusions before and in women who have been pregnant several times. Other types of reaction can also cause fever, and further testing may be needed to be sure that the reaction is only febrile.

Patients who have had febrile reactions or who are at risk for them are usually given blood products that are leukoreduced (loo-ko-re-DUCED).This means that the white blood cells have been removed by filters or other means.

Transfusion-related acute lung injury
Transfusion-related acute lung injury (TRALI) is a rare, but very serious transfusion reaction. It can happen with any type of transfusion, but those that contain more plasma, such as fresh frozen plasma or platelets, seem more likely to cause it. It often starts within 1 to 2 hours of starting the transfusion, but can happen anytime up to 6 hours after a transfusion. There’s also a delayed TRALI syndrome, which can begin up to 72 hours after the transfusion is given.

The main symptom of TRALI is trouble breathing, which can become life-threatening. If TRALI is suspected during the transfusion, the transfusion should be stopped right away.

Doctors now believe that several factors are involved in this illness, and medicines don’t seem to help. Many of the patients who get TRALI have had recent surgery, trauma, cancer treatment, transfusions, or have an active infection. Most of the time, TRALI goes away within 2 or 3 days if breathing and blood pressure are supported, but even with support it is deadly in 5% to 10% of cases. TRALI is more likely to be fatal if the patient was already very ill before the transfusion. Most often a patient will need oxygen, fluids, and sometimes support with a breathing machine.

Delayed TRALI has a higher risk of death, with one expert finding a death rate as high as 40%. If a patient who has had TRALI needs red blood cells, doctors may try to prevent future problems by removing most of the plasma from the red blood cells using a diluted salt water solution. Researchers are working on other ways to reduce this risk with careful donor selection and testing.

Acute immune hemolytic reaction
An acute hemolytic (he-mo-LIT-ik) reaction is the most serious type of transfusion reaction, but it’s very rare. It happens when donor and patient blood types do not match. The patient’s antibodies attack the transfused red blood cells, causing them to break open (hemolyze) and release harmful substances into the bloodstream.

Patients may have chills, fever, chest and lower back pain, and nausea. The kidneys may be badly damaged, and dialysis may be needed. A hemolytic reaction can be deadly if the transfusion is not stopped as soon as the reaction starts.

Delayed hemolytic reaction
This type of reaction happens when the body slowly attacks antigens (other than ABO antigens) on the transfused blood cells. The blood cells are broken down days or weeks after the transfusion. There are usually no symptoms, but the transfused red blood cells are destroyed and the patient’s red blood cell count falls. In rare cases, the kidneys may be affected, and treatment may be needed.

People don’t usually have this type of reaction unless they have had transfusions in the past. Those who do have this reaction need special blood tests before any more blood can be transfused. Units of blood that do not have the antigen that the body is attacking must be used.

Graft-versus-host disease
Graft-versus-host disease (GVHD) occurs when a person with a very weak immune system gets white blood cells in a transfused blood product. The white cells in the transfusion attack the tissues of the patient who got the blood.

This is more likely if the blood comes from a relative or someone who has the same tissue type (this is different from blood type) as the patient. The patient’s immune system doesn’t recognize the white blood cells in the transfused blood as foreign. This allows the white blood cells to survive and attack the patient’s body tissues.

Within a month of the transfusion, the patient may have fever, liver problems, rash, and diarrhea.

To prevent white blood cells from causing GVHD, donated blood can be treated with radiation before transfusion. (Radiation stops white blood cells from working but does not affect red blood cells.) These are called irradiated blood products. They are often used for people with cancer who might have weakened immune systems.

Infections
Blood transfusions can transmit infections caused by bacteria, viruses, and parasites. The chance of getting an infection from blood in the United States is extremely low, but the exact risk for each type of infection varies. Testing units of blood for germs that can cause infection has made the blood supply very safe, but no test is 100% accurate.

Bacterial contamination
Rarely, blood gets contaminated with tiny amounts of skin bacteria during donation. Platelets are the most likely blood component to have this problem. Because platelets must be stored at room temperature, these bacteria can grow quickly. (Other components are refrigerated or frozen.) Patients who get these platelets may develop a serious illness minutes or hours after the transfusion starts.

Blood banks routinely test platelets and destroy units of blood that are likely to cause harm. The tests are still being refined, but today fewer cases of illness are caused by platelets. Also, more hospitals use single donor platelets, which have a lower risk of bacterial contamination than pooled platelets.

Hepatitis B and C
Viruses that attack the liver cause these forms of hepatitis. Hepatitis is the most common disease transmitted by blood transfusions. A 2009 study on hepatitis B in donated blood suggested that the risk is about 1 in every 800,000 units or less. About 1 blood transfusion in 1.6 million may transmit hepatitis C.

Work continues to be done to reduce the risk of these infections even further. In most cases there are no symptoms, but hepatitis can sometimes lead to liver failure and other problems.

Several steps are routinely taken to reduce the risk of hepatitis from blood transfusion. People who are getting ready to donate blood are asked questions about hepatitis risk factors and symptoms of hepatitis. Donated blood is also tested to find hepatitis B virus, hepatitis C virus, and liver problems that could be signs of other types of hepatitis.

Human immunodeficiency virus
Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) causes acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS). Testing each unit of donated blood for HIV began in 1985, and all donated blood is now tested for HIV.

With improved testing for HIV, the number of transfusion-related AIDS cases continues to drop. The risk of HIV transmission from a transfusion is about 1 in 2 million. Along with testing, the risk is reduced by asking donors questions about HIV risk factors and symptoms.

Other infections
Along with the tests noted above, all blood for transfusion is tested for syphilis, as well as HTLV-I and HTLV-II (viruses linked to human T-cell leukemia/lymphoma). Since 2003, donated blood has been tested for the West Nile virus, too. In 2007, blood banks also began testing for Chagas disease (common in South and Central America).

Diseases caused by certain bacteria, viruses, and parasites, such as babesiosis, malaria, Lyme disease, and others can also be spread by blood product transfusions. But because potential donors are screened with questions about their health status and travel, such cases are very rare."

http://www.cancer.org/treatment/tre...on-and-transfusion-possible-transfusion-risks

That is a pretty long list.....and doctors who dare to move outside the box, have proven that almost all medical procedures can be undertaken successfully without blood.....even emergencies.

 

[SomeRandom]

People know that transfusions carry risks but do they ever bother to check out what those risks actually are?


"Possible risks of blood transfusions

Although blood transfusions can be life-saving, they are not without risks. Infections were once the main risk, but they have become extremely rare with careful testing and donor screening. Transfusion reactions and other non-infectious problems are now more common.

When you are getting a transfusion of any kind, it’s very important that you let your nurse know right away if you notice any changes in how you feel, such as itching, shivering, headache, chest or back pain, throat tightness, nausea, dizziness, trouble breathing, or other problems. You should report any that happen in the next few days, too.

Transfusion reactions
Blood transfusions sometimes cause transfusion reactions. There are several types of reactions and some are worse than others. Some reactions happen as soon as the transfusion is started, while others take several days or even longer to develop.

Many precautions are taken before a transfusion is started to keep reactions from happening. The blood type of the unit is checked many times, and the unit is cross-matched to be sure that it matches the blood type of the person who will get it. After that, both a nurse and blood bank lab technician look at the information about the patient and the information on the unit of blood (or blood component) before it’s released. The information is double-checked once more in the patient’s presence before the transfusion is started.

Allergic reaction
This is the most common reaction. It happens during the transfusion when the body reacts to plasma proteins or other substances in the donated blood. Usually the only symptoms are hives and itching, which can be treated with antihistamines like diphenhydramine (Benadryl). In rare cases these reactions can be more serious.

Febrile reaction
The person gets a sudden fever during or within 24 hours of the transfusion. Headache, nausea, chills, or a general feeling of discomfort may come with the fever. Acetaminophen (Tylenol) may help these symptoms.

These reactions are often the body’s response to white blood cells in the donated blood. They are more common in people who have had transfusions before and in women who have been pregnant several times. Other types of reaction can also cause fever, and further testing may be needed to be sure that the reaction is only febrile.

Patients who have had febrile reactions or who are at risk for them are usually given blood products that are leukoreduced (loo-ko-re-DUCED).This means that the white blood cells have been removed by filters or other means.

Transfusion-related acute lung injury
Transfusion-related acute lung injury (TRALI) is a rare, but very serious transfusion reaction. It can happen with any type of transfusion, but those that contain more plasma, such as fresh frozen plasma or platelets, seem more likely to cause it. It often starts within 1 to 2 hours of starting the transfusion, but can happen anytime up to 6 hours after a transfusion. There’s also a delayed TRALI syndrome, which can begin up to 72 hours after the transfusion is given.

The main symptom of TRALI is trouble breathing, which can become life-threatening. If TRALI is suspected during the transfusion, the transfusion should be stopped right away.

Doctors now believe that several factors are involved in this illness, and medicines don’t seem to help. Many of the patients who get TRALI have had recent surgery, trauma, cancer treatment, transfusions, or have an active infection. Most of the time, TRALI goes away within 2 or 3 days if breathing and blood pressure are supported, but even with support it is deadly in 5% to 10% of cases. TRALI is more likely to be fatal if the patient was already very ill before the transfusion. Most often a patient will need oxygen, fluids, and sometimes support with a breathing machine.

Delayed TRALI has a higher risk of death, with one expert finding a death rate as high as 40%. If a patient who has had TRALI needs red blood cells, doctors may try to prevent future problems by removing most of the plasma from the red blood cells using a diluted salt water solution. Researchers are working on other ways to reduce this risk with careful donor selection and testing.

Acute immune hemolytic reaction
An acute hemolytic (he-mo-LIT-ik) reaction is the most serious type of transfusion reaction, but it’s very rare. It happens when donor and patient blood types do not match. The patient’s antibodies attack the transfused red blood cells, causing them to break open (hemolyze) and release harmful substances into the bloodstream.

Patients may have chills, fever, chest and lower back pain, and nausea. The kidneys may be badly damaged, and dialysis may be needed. A hemolytic reaction can be deadly if the transfusion is not stopped as soon as the reaction starts.

Delayed hemolytic reaction
This type of reaction happens when the body slowly attacks antigens (other than ABO antigens) on the transfused blood cells. The blood cells are broken down days or weeks after the transfusion. There are usually no symptoms, but the transfused red blood cells are destroyed and the patient’s red blood cell count falls. In rare cases, the kidneys may be affected, and treatment may be needed.

People don’t usually have this type of reaction unless they have had transfusions in the past. Those who do have this reaction need special blood tests before any more blood can be transfused. Units of blood that do not have the antigen that the body is attacking must be used.

Graft-versus-host disease
Graft-versus-host disease (GVHD) occurs when a person with a very weak immune system gets white blood cells in a transfused blood product. The white cells in the transfusion attack the tissues of the patient who got the blood.

This is more likely if the blood comes from a relative or someone who has the same tissue type (this is different from blood type) as the patient. The patient’s immune system doesn’t recognize the white blood cells in the transfused blood as foreign. This allows the white blood cells to survive and attack the patient’s body tissues.

Within a month of the transfusion, the patient may have fever, liver problems, rash, and diarrhea.

To prevent white blood cells from causing GVHD, donated blood can be treated with radiation before transfusion. (Radiation stops white blood cells from working but does not affect red blood cells.) These are called irradiated blood products. They are often used for people with cancer who might have weakened immune systems.

Infections
Blood transfusions can transmit infections caused by bacteria, viruses, and parasites. The chance of getting an infection from blood in the United States is extremely low, but the exact risk for each type of infection varies. Testing units of blood for germs that can cause infection has made the blood supply very safe, but no test is 100% accurate.

Bacterial contamination
Rarely, blood gets contaminated with tiny amounts of skin bacteria during donation. Platelets are the most likely blood component to have this problem. Because platelets must be stored at room temperature, these bacteria can grow quickly. (Other components are refrigerated or frozen.) Patients who get these platelets may develop a serious illness minutes or hours after the transfusion starts.

Blood banks routinely test platelets and destroy units of blood that are likely to cause harm. The tests are still being refined, but today fewer cases of illness are caused by platelets. Also, more hospitals use single donor platelets, which have a lower risk of bacterial contamination than pooled platelets.

Hepatitis B and C
Viruses that attack the liver cause these forms of hepatitis. Hepatitis is the most common disease transmitted by blood transfusions. A 2009 study on hepatitis B in donated blood suggested that the risk is about 1 in every 800,000 units or less. About 1 blood transfusion in 1.6 million may transmit hepatitis C.

Work continues to be done to reduce the risk of these infections even further. In most cases there are no symptoms, but hepatitis can sometimes lead to liver failure and other problems.

Several steps are routinely taken to reduce the risk of hepatitis from blood transfusion. People who are getting ready to donate blood are asked questions about hepatitis risk factors and symptoms of hepatitis. Donated blood is also tested to find hepatitis B virus, hepatitis C virus, and liver problems that could be signs of other types of hepatitis.

Human immunodeficiency virus
Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) causes acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS). Testing each unit of donated blood for HIV began in 1985, and all donated blood is now tested for HIV.

With improved testing for HIV, the number of transfusion-related AIDS cases continues to drop. The risk of HIV transmission from a transfusion is about 1 in 2 million. Along with testing, the risk is reduced by asking donors questions about HIV risk factors and symptoms.

Other infections
Along with the tests noted above, all blood for transfusion is tested for syphilis, as well as HTLV-I and HTLV-II (viruses linked to human T-cell leukemia/lymphoma). Since 2003, donated blood has been tested for the West Nile virus, too. In 2007, blood banks also began testing for Chagas disease (common in South and Central America).

Diseases caused by certain bacteria, viruses, and parasites, such as babesiosis, malaria, Lyme disease, and others can also be spread by blood product transfusions. But because potential donors are screened with questions about their health status and travel, such cases are very rare."

http://www.cancer.org/treatment/tre...on-and-transfusion-possible-transfusion-risks

That is a pretty long list.....and doctors who dare to move outside the box, have proven that almost all medical procedures can be undertaken successfully without blood.....even emergencies.

What about heart surgeries? They can cause

• Bleeding.
• Infection, fever, swelling, and other signs of inflammation.
• A reaction to the medicine used to make you sleep during the surgery.
• Arrhythmias (irregular heartbeats).
• Damage to tissues in the heart, kidneys, liver, and lungs.
• Stroke, which may cause short-term or permanent damage.
• Death.

How about use of General Anesthetic? That can cause

• Pain.
• Nausea and vomiting - up to 30% of patients.
• Damage to teeth - 1 in 4,500 cases.
• Sore throat and laryngeal damage.
• Anaphylaxis to anaesthetic agents - figures such as 0.2% have been quoted.
• Cardiovascular collapse.
• Respiratory depression.
• Aspiration pneumonitis - up to 4.5% frequency has been reported; higher in children.
• Hypothermia.
• Hypoxic brain damage.
• Nerve injury - 0.4% in general anaesthesia and 0.1% in regional anaesthesia.
• Awareness during anaesthesia - up to 0.2% of patients; higher in obstetrics and cardiac patients.
• Embolism - air, thrombus, venous or arterial.
• Backache.
• Headache.
• Idiosyncratic reactions related to specific agents - eg, malignant hyperpyrexia with suxamethonium, succinylcholine-related apnoea.
• Iatrogenic - eg, pneumothorax related to central line insertion.
• Death.

Wow. It's almost like there's a lot of risk in literally any medical procedure or something.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

We are proud to take care of our own. We have had many of those whom we have helped tell us that their church did nothing to support them after a natural disaster. If we all took care of our own, then that would be Christianity in action.
As Paul said in Gal 6:9, 10
"So let us not give up in doing what is fine, for in due time we will reap if we do not tire out. So, then, as long as we have the opportunity, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith."

Since we do not see Christendom as being "related to us in the faith" at all, we concentrate on helping our own brothers first and then we look for others to offer assistance, regardless of their faith.

This is how they how they, "work what is good toward all", when there is a disaster, they will help their "brotherhood" with food, shelter and whatever they need, but everyone else, gets WT literature. They will roll a cart into Christendom and hand out WT literature to people that lost everything, but they won't give them a .99¢ McDonald's hamburger.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

When we are raised to treat certain people as beneath us, that indoctrination doesn't seem to be able to be "bred out" of the human psyche. If we could love, half as well as we hate; save life as well as we take life.....there would be no difference between humans that could not be overcome. Jehovah's Witnesses have proven that all races and nationalities can co-exist in peace and unity, exhibiting genuine love for one another because we all worship the same God and follow the same teachings. (John 13:34, 35) We would like to teach others how to experience that.

*** g95 5/8 p. 14 It’s No Secret Anymore ***
Catholic and Orthodox believers, while claiming to be Christian, have failed to live up to the loving example of Christ Jesus. Only Jehovah’s Witnesses have maintained their neutrality and refused to learn or practice war anymore. And that is no secret.—Isaiah 2:4; Micah 4:3.

*** g93 10/8 p. 22 Helping My Family Become Spiritually Rich ***
Over the years our preaching work would sometimes be disrupted because of factional fighting in the communities. Churchgoers get involved in this tribal fighting. It is only Jehovah’s Witnesses who are known for their neutrality. Once, a fight broke out between the Mabaso and the maBomvu tribes in an area where I was dipping cattle. The people in the area were of the Mabaso tribe and might normally have killed me because they knew I came from the maBomvu tribe. However, they also knew that I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and so they did not harm me.

*** jv chap. 24 pp. 548-549 By Human Power? Or by God’s Spirit? ***
Jehovah’s Witnesses form the only religious organization in the world in which every member personally witnesses to nonbelievers, endeavors to answer their questions from the Bible, and urges them to put faith in God’s Word. Other religious organizations acknowledge that this is what all Christians should do. Some have tried to encourage their church members to do it. But only Jehovah’s Witnesses consistently do it. Whose direction, whose counsel, whose assurance of loving support, and whose promises motivate them to do this work that others shun? Ask them yourself. No matter what the nation in which they live, they will reply: “Jehovah’s.” To whom, then, should credit be given?

*** jv chap. 25 p. 570 Preaching Publicly and From House to House ***
At various times other religious groups have encouraged their members to call on the homes of people in their community to talk about religion. Some individuals have tried it. Certain ones may even do it as missionaries for a couple of years, but that is the end of it. However, it is only among Jehovah’s Witnesses that virtually all, young and old, male and female, participate year in, year out, in the house-to-house ministry. It is only Jehovah’s Witnesses who truly endeavor to reach all the inhabited earth with the Kingdom message, in obedience to the prophetic command at Matthew 24:14.

*** w12 12/15 p. 27 par. 15 “Temporary Residents” United in True Worship ***
15 In lands around the globe, only Jehovah’s Witnesses have adopted God’s way of thinking as a group. By learning to see things as Jehovah does, they have been able mentally and emotionally to break down national barriers. Instead of treating members of differing national groups with distrust, suspicion, or even outright hatred, they have learned to cherish the variety of characteristics and abilities of these groups as something beautiful. Have you reflected on this accomplishment and how it has benefited you personally in dealing with others?

*** w08 4/15 pp. 12-13 par. 5 Young People, Remember Your Grand Creator Now ***
5 Young people who remember their Grand Creator are wise beyond their years. (Read Psalm 119:99, 100.) Because they adopt God’s viewpoint, they are fully aware of how dim this world’s prospects really are. Even in your relatively short lifetime, you young ones have no doubt seen fear and anxiety increase. If you are still in school, you have likely heard about pollution, global warming, deforestation, and similar problems. People are deeply concerned about these trends, but only Jehovah’s Witnesses fully understand that they are part of the sign that points to the end of Satan’s world.—Rev. 11:18.




What religion teaches that other people are "beneath them"? "Only Jehovah's witnesses"! I could go on and on, and on, and on, and on.

 

[Falvlun]

Transfusion reactions
Blood transfusions sometimes cause transfusion reactions. There are several types of reactions and some are worse than others. Some reactions happen as soon as the transfusion is started, while others take several days or even longer to develop.

Many precautions are taken before a transfusion is started to keep reactions from happening. The blood type of the unit is checked many times, and the unit is cross-matched to be sure that it matches the blood type of the person who will get it. After that, both a nurse and blood bank lab technician look at the information about the patient and the information on the unit of blood (or blood component) before it’s released. The information is double-checked once more in the patient’s presence before the transfusion is started.

As noted above, the "type and cross" process is very involved and taken quite seriously. there are a lot of redundancies and cross-checking to make sure the right blood is given to the right patient. As an illustration, we keep regular lab records for two years. Blood bank records must be kept for ten years!

The risks of transfusion stem largely from the possibility of a lab or medical error (getting the wrong type of blood) than from risks inherent in the transfusion itself.

Allergic reaction

This is the most common reaction. It happens during the transfusion when the body reacts to plasma proteins or other substances in the donated blood. Usually the only symptoms are hives and itching, which can be treated with antihistamines like diphenhydramine (Benadryl). In rare cases these reactions can be more serious.

Febrile reaction
The person gets a sudden fever during or within 24 hours of the transfusion. Headache, nausea, chills, or a general feeling of discomfort may come with the fever. Acetaminophen (Tylenol) may help these symptoms.

These reactions are often the body’s response to white blood cells in the donated blood. They are more common in people who have had transfusions before and in women who have been pregnant several times. Other types of reaction can also cause fever, and further testing may be needed to be sure that the reaction is only febrile.

Patients who have had febrile reactions or who are at risk for them are usually given blood products that are leukoreduced (loo-ko-re-DUCED).This means that the white blood cells have been removed by filters or other means.

These are mild reactions. They generally don't indicate any issue with the blood match, but can be your body's normal reaction. These symptoms should be monitored to make sure they don't become more severe.

Note that there's easy solutions to cope with these mild symptoms, and even a different type of blood product to avoid such symptoms from occurring in those at greater risk for them.

Transfusion-related acute lung injury

Transfusion-related acute lung injury (TRALI) is a rare, but very serious transfusion reaction. It can happen with any type of transfusion, but those that contain more plasma, such as fresh frozen plasma or platelets, seem more likely to cause it. It often starts within 1 to 2 hours of starting the transfusion, but can happen anytime up to 6 hours after a transfusion. There’s also a delayed TRALI syndrome, which can begin up to 72 hours after the transfusion is given.

The main symptom of TRALI is trouble breathing, which can become life-threatening. If TRALI is suspected during the transfusion, the transfusion should be stopped right away.

Doctors now believe that several factors are involved in this illness, and medicines don’t seem to help. Many of the patients who get TRALI have had recent surgery, trauma, cancer treatment, transfusions, or have an active infection. Most of the time, TRALI goes away within 2 or 3 days if breathing and blood pressure are supported, but even with support it is deadly in 5% to 10% of cases. TRALI is more likely to be fatal if the patient was already very ill before the transfusion. Most often a patient will need oxygen, fluids, and sometimes support with a breathing machine.

Delayed TRALI has a higher risk of death, with one expert finding a death rate as high as 40%. If a patient who has had TRALI needs red blood cells, doctors may try to prevent future problems by removing most of the plasma from the red blood cells using a diluted salt water solution. Researchers are working on other ways to reduce this risk with careful donor selection and testing.

This is a very rare but much more severe reaction. In most cases, the symptoms resolve within a week, without permanent damage.

This reaction is likely caused by antibodies in the donor's plasma triggering the leukocytes in the recipient's blood, which causes them to release a bunch of cytotoxic crap (which is their job, but the problem here is that a bunch of them do it all at once and for some reason, in the lungs, where it causes more damage.)

TRALI is probably the one reaction that does support your argument. There currently isn't a good way, lab-wise or clinical-wise, to predict what donor blood might cause TRALI in what recipient. There has been studies indicating that plasma components derived from previously-pregnant women are most likely to cause TRALI in recipients, so there has been a move in some places to restrict plasma donation by this at-risk group.

Acute immune hemolytic reaction

An acute hemolytic (he-mo-LIT-ik) reaction is the most serious type of transfusion reaction, but it’s very rare. It happens when donor and patient blood types do not match. The patient’s antibodies attack the transfused red blood cells, causing them to break open (hemolyze) and release harmful substances into the bloodstream.

Patients may have chills, fever, chest and lower back pain, and nausea. The kidneys may be badly damaged, and dialysis may be needed. A hemolytic reaction can be deadly if the transfusion is not stopped as soon as the reaction starts.

Delayed hemolytic reaction
This type of reaction happens when the body slowly attacks antigens (other than ABO antigens) on the transfused blood cells. The blood cells are broken down days or weeks after the transfusion. There are usually no symptoms, but the transfused red blood cells are destroyed and the patient’s red blood cell count falls. In rare cases, the kidneys may be affected, and treatment may be needed.

People don’t usually have this type of reaction unless they have had transfusions in the past. Those who do have this reaction need special blood tests before any more blood can be transfused. Units of blood that do not have the antigen that the body is attacking must be used.

These are serious reactions that are almost entirely caused by lab or clinical errors. Good lab practice should prevent most hemolytic reactions.

Graft-versus-host disease

Graft-versus-host disease (GVHD) occurs when a person with a very weak immune system gets white blood cells in a transfused blood product. The white cells in the transfusion attack the tissues of the patient who got the blood.

This is more likely if the blood comes from a relative or someone who has the same tissue type (this is different from blood type) as the patient. The patient’s immune system doesn’t recognize the white blood cells in the transfused blood as foreign. This allows the white blood cells to survive and attack the patient’s body tissues.

Within a month of the transfusion, the patient may have fever, liver problems, rash, and diarrhea.

To prevent white blood cells from causing GVHD, donated blood can be treated with radiation before transfusion. (Radiation stops white blood cells from working but does not affect red blood cells.) These are called irradiated blood products. They are often used for people with cancer who might have weakened immune systems.

The special irradiated blood products prevent this reaction and are used on patients that would be at risk.

Infections

Blood transfusions can transmit infections caused by bacteria, viruses, and parasites. The chance of getting an infection from blood in the United States is extremely low, but the exact risk for each type of infection varies. Testing units of blood for germs that can cause infection has made the blood supply very safe, but no test is 100% accurate.

Donated blood and blood products go through multiple levels of screens to avoid transfusing contaminated blood. There are also laboratory practices strictly enforced to avoid contaminating the blood after donation.

While we probably will not ever be able to fully prevent all infections, this is becoming a much more rare occurrence.

It is also not exactly a complication unique to blood transfusion. Many hospital procedures carry a risk of infection.

That is a pretty long list.....and doctors who dare to move outside the box, have proven that almost all medical procedures can be undertaken successfully without blood.....even emergencies.

All medical interventions carry risk. Most of the above risks are either avoidable with good medical practices or simply not that severe.

The patient's situation determines whether the level of risk is acceptable. If the patient is likely to die without a transfusion, most people would consider the risk acceptable.

I have trouble believing that there's some conspiracy to maintain blood transfusions. If other treatments were just as effective with less risk, then there would be no reason for the medical community to not jump on board.

 

[Falvlun]

As a lab technician, what is your training? Who teaches you what you now know?

Hi Deeje. To work in a medical/hospital lab, you need at least an associate's degree in clinical lab science after which you must pass an accreditation test. The most common is the ASCP certification. This is to become an MLT (medical lab technician).

The next step up is at least a bachelor degree in CLS (or related biology, pre-Med courses), with the medical technologist (clinical lab scientist) certification.

Some states have further accreditation requirements as well.

Blood bank is a very technical area of the lab, so generally only your most experienced techs will work in that department. MLTs should not work in blood bank unless directly supervised by an MT.

People know that transfusions carry risks but do they ever bother to check out what those risks actually are?

I would assume they are about as familiar with them as they are with risks in other non-routine medical interventions.

If there is time, the doctor/nurse should be educating the person, in order to obtain consent, and especially because we need the patient's feedback ASAP if they start feeling things that would raise red flags.

But if it's an emergency situation, the risks of a transfusion are generally less than the risks of dying outright from the blood loss.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

For decades now Jehovah's Witnesses have copped a fair amount of criticism for their refusal to accept blood transfusions for religious reasons. For those who believe that blood transfusions are the life saving procedure that they are claimed to be, please watch this video so that the facts can be brought to the public's attention. This is information provided by the Australian Government, not by Jehovah's Witnesses.

https://www.blood.gov.au/media

I work in a hospital. I see it done nearly every day. My brother had surgery not to long ago due to an accident. He required six transfusions. Without those he would have bled to death. I see routienly where people come in to get blood and see a physical difference in how much better they feel. I know doctors that order transfusions. The medicine is sound. There are risks. There is a second consent form that need be signed in order to get it and thy must be watched carefully to make sure it isn't rwjected. But the benefits outweigh the risks

 

[Olinda]

Looks like you've nailed it.

Not technology per se...but communication and educational standards "should" produce people who can think farther than the end of their noses as to how their behavior will affect others, not just in the short term, but generations into the future.

No nation is isolated from the rest of the world, so its either "get our heads together and solve these problems" or "go on killing each other and demonstrate how short sighted and haughty we are". We have it within our power to share and to recognize each other as fellow humans first, and nationality or religion as inconsequential details. Why do you think we can't achieve this right now, despite the knowledge of all the geniuses in the world, we never advance in this area?

It isn't what we are breeding "out" that is the only problem...it is what is being bred "in" at an alarming pace in this age of internet communication. The gap between kids and their parents has never been wider.


Is that what I said?
I was referring to our global brotherhood which is unique in the world, in that it doesn't have racial or local 'fusions' in what is accepted as truth in any nation. So many "Christian" religions are blended with the former religion of their members. This is especially true of the Roman Catholic Church where the church accepted converts who brought their former ways with them. Gentiles were not permitted to bring their former worship into either Israel or Christianity. (2 Cor 6:14-18)



We are proud to take care of our own. We have had many of those whom we have helped tell us that their church did nothing to support them after a natural disaster. If we all took care of our own, then that would be Christianity in action.
As Paul said in Gal 6:9, 10
"So let us not give up in doing what is fine, for in due time we will reap if we do not tire out. So, then, as long as we have the opportunity, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith."

Since we do not see Christendom as being "related to us in the faith" at all, we concentrate on helping our own brothers first and then we look for others to offer assistance, regardless of their faith.



God does not offer unconditional love...where did you get that idea?
Humans have had conditions placed upon them since day 1.


Doctors are not God. They make mistakes and they cannot foretell the outcome of any procedure with any certainty. Ill health is big business on both sides.
On the other hand, God knows everything about us and what we should and shouldn't do. He demonstrated this in the hygiene laws he gave to Israel. They had no idea why God commanded them to bury their excrement outside the camp or why certain foods were "unclean" and not to be consumed. We know why now, but God was always right. It has been demonstrated now that he was right about consuming blood as well. Science and medicine are not always the best judges of what is good for us. Obeying the Creator is NOT optional for us.


Anecdotal evidence is all we have because the system will not allow "cures" to replace "treatments". Any trials that prove to be anywhere near a "cure" are immediately withdrawn and patients told they will have to wait 10 years until they are "approved"....by then the people who might have benefited are long dead after years of suffering and everyone else has forgotten.



I wonder what would happen if we were allowed to grow our own cannabis for medicinal purposes and were permitted to make our own medicine to cure or treat our own maladies?
How much anecdotal evidence would then be common knowledge? They won't allow us to find out. Do you know why? Cannabis a harmless plant. No one has ever died from an overdose of cannabis....that is how dangerous it is. People can die from alcohol poisoning though, so why isn't alcohol illegal? People die from abusing tobacco, so why is it legal?



If whole hospitals dedicated to bloodless medicine are now found all over the world, then what are we to think? This is the medical profession itself turning its back on the past and walking away from it.


I have examined both sides of this issue myself, very thoroughly. Do you actually think I would have the temerity to post an OP like this without researching it?

They are called adjustments....Jesus had a few for his disciples too. (John 16:1-13) There were things revealed in their own time, when God was ready to make them known.They were not "new" but clarified.
We have no problem with that.

Thanks for your detailed reply, as always.

Not technology per se...but communication and educational standards "should" produce people who can think farther than the end of their noses as to how their behavior will affect others, not just in the short term, but generations into the future.

No nation is isolated from the rest of the world, so its either "get our heads together and solve these problems" or "go on killing each other and demonstrate how short sighted and haughty we are". We have it within our power to share and to recognize each other as fellow humans first, and nationality or religion as inconsequential details. Why do you think we can't achieve this right now, despite the knowledge of all the geniuses in the world, we never advance in this area?

Again, why would advances in technology bring about personal growth and overall advances in morality? Why do I think we can't achieve this right now? Perhaps because the two are not related by cause and effect?

It isn't what we are breeding "out" that is the only problem...it is what is being bred "in" at an alarming pace in this age of internet communication. The gap between kids and their parents has never been wider.

So here you are saying that the technical advances and advances in communication are causing the problem? Besides, this is just another assertion without backup. It certainly isn't my personal experience. I'm much closer to my children than I was to my parents.

Is that what I said?

What you said was

Jehovah's Witnesses have proven that all races and nationalities can co-exist in peace and unity, exhibiting genuine love for one another because we all worship the same God and follow the same teachings. (John 13:34, 35) We would like to teach others how to experience that.

If it needs to be proven, doesn't that mean that it cannot be demonstrated elsewhere? If it needs to be taught, doesn't that mean that it isn't being achieved?

I was referring to our global brotherhood which is unique in the world, in that it doesn't have racial or local 'fusions' in what is accepted as truth in any nation. So many "Christian" religions are blended with the former religion of their members.

This is a different thing again. I cannot accept that for people to live in harmony their beliefs and practices must be in lockstep.

We are proud to take care of our own. We have had many of those whom we have helped tell us that their church did nothing to support them after a natural disaster. If we all took care of our own, then that would be Christianity in action.

It would? Where does the parable of the Good Samaritan fit in then?

God does not offer unconditional love...where did you get that idea?

Then your concept of God falls short of a good parent. Agreed, the Prodigal son story is a good example of love. Do you think the father would have driven the son out of his home and refused to speak to him if they had a disagreement over religion?

Doctors are not God. They make mistakes and they cannot foretell the outcome of any procedure with any certainty. Ill health is big business on both sides.
On the other hand, God knows everything about us and what we should and shouldn't do.

Then God was at least selective with the advice given to us. A few more medicine, diet and exercise tips would have been nice. And since I don't have His mobile number, I'll stick with doctors as the best we have.

Anecdotal evidence is all we have because the system will not allow "cures" to replace "treatments". Any trials that prove to be anywhere near a "cure" are immediately withdrawn and patients told they will have to wait 10 years until they are "approved"....by then the people who might have benefited are long dead after years of suffering and everyone else has forgotten.

Again, all assertion. Yes, of course clinical trials are needed, you would be the first to condemn the medical and pharmaceutical professions if patients suffered from unidentified side effects. Yes, it could be that people died and a drug which could have helped is subsequently released. Just as jws died of renal failure and other conditions when your religion still forbade organ transplants. Only there was no logical or Biblical reason for that.

I wonder what would happen if we were allowed to grow our own cannabis for medicinal purposes and were permitted to make our own medicine to cure or treat our own maladies?

It would be abused by some people to make recreational drugs for sale, while others would simply hop over your back fence and help themselves.

No one has ever died from an overdose of cannabis....that is how dangerous it is.

Please google 'cannabis and psychotic disorders'. And yes, people commit suicide from psychotic disorders.

I have examined both sides of this issue myself, very thoroughly. Do you actually think I would have the temerity to post an OP like this without researching it?

A good researcher never stops learning. In fact, if you are so certain of your subject, you should have no problem reading and rebutting the references that were offered.

They are called adjustments....Jesus had a few for his disciples too. (John 16:1-13) There were things revealed in their own time, when God was ready to make them known.They were not "new" but clarified

It doesn't matter what they are called, the result is that what is true today may not be true tomorrow.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

They are called adjustments....Jesus had a few for his disciples too. (John 16:1-13) There were things revealed in their own time, when God was ready to make them known.They were not "new" but clarified. We have no problem with that.

It doesn't matter what they are called, the result is that what is true today may not be true tomorrow.

All watchtower affiliates that go door to door and tell people, "we are the only religion on earth that has the truth of God's Word" unintentionally and unwittingly lie to the person at the door. For a watchtower affiliate to be totally honest with the person at the door, they should tell them, "we are the only religion on earth 'this month' who have the truth of God's Word". Their truth and what they believe are only good for their current watchtower magazine, they could get "new light" or an "adjustment" in their teaching in the next magazine.

When they use their book, "What Does the Bible Really Teach?", to be totally honest with the people at the door, they should say, "as of today, this is what the Bible really teaches. God gives us "new light" all the time and this truth is subject to change, but as of today, it's the truth."

 

[djhwoodwerks]

This is a strange argument. In this day and age there is less excuse for war, poverty and bloodshed than at any other time in history. We are not uneducated barbarians, raping and pillaging for the sake of proud national conquest. Seriously...who doesn't lament the fact that humankind cannot, in this supposed 'age of reason', come to grips with their collective need to save humanity and the planet from their own greed and stupidity?

Ask the agencies who try to help the millions who are displaced or starving because of this current plight and tell me how we are supposed to fix this ridiculous situation? It just keeps getting worse with no end in sight...just as the Bible predicted.

Is that a question the watchtower could answer? Does the watchtower help the starving and displaced in the world?


I think all watchtower affiliates should ask themselves, why do false religions help the displaced and starving people of the world, but the only true religion doesn't. I wonder how many watchtower affiliates belong to the Red Cross? False religion will go into a disaster and start helping everyone, the only true religion does not.