darkpenguin
Charismatic Enigma
yes they are, they both believe in the same god!
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Are Catholics Christians?
- Thread starter The Voice of Reason
- Start date
TruthInCatholocism
Apologetics
Catholics are Christians.. And based Biblically The First 
And For linus... With True Authority....
And For linus... With True Authority....
cardero
Citizen Mod
How do you figure?Catholics are Christians.. And based Biblically The First
Quiddity
UndertheInfluenceofGiants
About what? The authority?
cardero
Citizen Mod
Yes.
The message you entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 5 characters.
Okay-
Yesss
TruthInCatholocism
Apologetics
Peter was Given Authority -----> Peter is First Church Leader -----> First Eastablished Church (by Peter and the Apostles) (Catholic)----- > Therfore Catholic Church Holds Authority.. Simple id say
Todd
Rajun Cajun
Peter was Given Authority -----> Peter is First Church Leader -----> First Eastablished Church (by Peter and the Apostles) (Catholic)----- > Therfore Catholic Church Holds Authority.. Simple id say
Is there any documentation that Peter established the church named as Catholic? I just figure that true salvation/Christianity doesn't belong in a specific church, but it resides in Christ alone. Not trying to preach here. Just making a point
.As far as if they are Christian, that could be asked about any Christian denomination. I do believe that some in the Catholic church are Christian, and some are not. I believe the same thing about all other denominations in Christianity.....including mine. Like I eluded to initially, it has to do with Christ, not a specific church.
Is there any documentation that Peter established the church named as Catholic? I just figure that true salvation/Christianity doesn't belong in a specific church, but it resides in Christ alone. Not trying to preach here. Just making a point
As far as if they are Christian, that could be asked about any Christian denomination. I do believe that some in the Catholic church are Christian, and some are not. I believe the same thing about all other denominations in Christianity.....including mine. Like I eluded to initially, it has to do with Christ, not a specific church.
I would like to "Second" that e-motion! Their documentation is "Because I said so."
TruthInCatholocism
Apologetics
Catholic again a more contemporary name... Jesus did say "All Nations" Universal = Catholic
and ill qoute myself from another post to avoid writing it again
For the first 800 years of Christianity, there was no doubt regarding the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
1. "I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?"
2. "For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself."
3. 110 AD (early huh?)
"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again... Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop, or by one whom he appoints. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." (Epistle to the Smyreans)
"Take heed, then, to have but one Eucharist. For there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup to [show forth] the unity of His blood; one altar; as there is one bishop, along with the presbytery and deacons, my fellow-servants: that so, whatsoever you do, you may do it according to [the will of] God." (Epistle to the Philadelphians)
The list goes on....
Infant Baptism:
Where infants Baptized?
Entire Housholds were batptized by the 12 Apostles (ENTIRE)
(I Corinthians 1: 16; Acts 11: 14, 16: 15, 33, 18: 8)
According To historical Fact...
Polycarp (Deciple of the apostle john) Baptized as an infant......
Irenaeus Babptized as an infant....
Ever Look into church history? Nah no Non-Catolic would want to....
Read Fidus 1:2
"Infants are to be baptized for the remission of sins. Cyprian’s reply to a country bishop, Fidus, who wrote him regarding the Baptism of infants, is even more explicit. Should we wait until the eighth day as did the Jews in circumcision? No, the child should be baptized as soon as it is born"
or cyperian: "We ought not hinder any person from Baptism and the grace of God..... especially infants. . . those newly born."
7 sacrements in the Bible...........
Babtism:
1 Peter 3:20-21
John 3:5 (also note verse 22)
Confessing sins to man (only god has the power to forgive sins but he does it thru men)
1 John 1:9
James 5:16
Mark 2:7
Matthew 9:1-8
Eucharist:
John 6
Matthew 26:26-28
1 Cor 11:23-26, 27-29
I can keep going.......
What church... What Church other then the Catholic Church follows these teachigns today? Non-But...
The Catholic CHurch Baptizes infants... Celebrates the Eucharist Every Day... as the Apostles did.. And realizes the True Presence Of jesus as the Apostles did.. And as the Early church did...... We understand that our sins are forgiven by God.. But god uses this power thru Man... and there are successors... In the Epistles.. and Acts we see the Appointing of Bishops..... In the earliest recorded Christan documents we see all this as well......
Look it up.. study it.. Leanr what youd ont know.. Youll be suprised
and ill qoute myself from another post to avoid writing it again
For the first 800 years of Christianity, there was no doubt regarding the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
1. "I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?"
2. "For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself."
3. 110 AD (early huh?)
"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again... Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop, or by one whom he appoints. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." (Epistle to the Smyreans)
"Take heed, then, to have but one Eucharist. For there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup to [show forth] the unity of His blood; one altar; as there is one bishop, along with the presbytery and deacons, my fellow-servants: that so, whatsoever you do, you may do it according to [the will of] God." (Epistle to the Philadelphians)
The list goes on....
Infant Baptism:
Where infants Baptized?
Entire Housholds were batptized by the 12 Apostles (ENTIRE)
(I Corinthians 1: 16; Acts 11: 14, 16: 15, 33, 18: 8)
According To historical Fact...
Polycarp (Deciple of the apostle john) Baptized as an infant......
Irenaeus Babptized as an infant....
Ever Look into church history? Nah no Non-Catolic would want to....
Read Fidus 1:2
"Infants are to be baptized for the remission of sins. Cyprian’s reply to a country bishop, Fidus, who wrote him regarding the Baptism of infants, is even more explicit. Should we wait until the eighth day as did the Jews in circumcision? No, the child should be baptized as soon as it is born"
or cyperian: "We ought not hinder any person from Baptism and the grace of God..... especially infants. . . those newly born."
7 sacrements in the Bible...........
Babtism:
1 Peter 3:20-21
John 3:5 (also note verse 22)
Confessing sins to man (only god has the power to forgive sins but he does it thru men)
1 John 1:9
James 5:16
Mark 2:7
Matthew 9:1-8
Eucharist:
John 6
Matthew 26:26-28
1 Cor 11:23-26, 27-29
I can keep going.......
What church... What Church other then the Catholic Church follows these teachigns today? Non-But...
The Catholic CHurch Baptizes infants... Celebrates the Eucharist Every Day... as the Apostles did.. And realizes the True Presence Of jesus as the Apostles did.. And as the Early church did...... We understand that our sins are forgiven by God.. But god uses this power thru Man... and there are successors... In the Epistles.. and Acts we see the Appointing of Bishops..... In the earliest recorded Christan documents we see all this as well......
Look it up.. study it.. Leanr what youd ont know.. Youll be suprised
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Repeating yourself does not make it true. As has been pointed out: you will find no reference to the Catholic Church in the NT. However, you will find references to the church of Christ and the church of God.
I am confident that Catholics are Christian. Are they saved? That is an individual determination between them, Jesus, the Spirit and God. There will be no "corporate" salvation.
I am confident that Catholics are Christian. Are they saved? That is an individual determination between them, Jesus, the Spirit and God. There will be no "corporate" salvation.
TruthInCatholocism
Apologetics
Repeating Fact... Biblical Qoutes... Historical DOcuments.. Makes it exactly that....
From What I Believe to what Early Christian Leaders (Church Fathers) Believe is the truth.. The Catholic Church today (though the name may not have been originally catholic till atleast 120 AD) Is the First Church and is Gods Church (The Church of Jesus)
Heres a Question for you....
Do you belong to a Demonition?
Protestant
Prepataryan
Methodist
Evangical
Born Again.....
Well in either Case
Do you believe is sola Scriptura?
And heres a historical Question
When was the Apychropha added?
and when was it Removed?
Answer all.. You may be suprised by your own answer
From What I Believe to what Early Christian Leaders (Church Fathers) Believe is the truth.. The Catholic Church today (though the name may not have been originally catholic till atleast 120 AD) Is the First Church and is Gods Church (The Church of Jesus)
Heres a Question for you....
Do you belong to a Demonition?
Protestant
Prepataryan
Methodist
Evangical
Born Again.....
Well in either Case
Do you believe is sola Scriptura?
And heres a historical Question
When was the Apychropha added?
and when was it Removed?
Answer all.. You may be suprised by your own answer
cardero
Citizen Mod
You cannot believe something to Truth.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
You excel at twisting them to your own advantage. I see no good coming out of that.
Yet the current Catholic Church looks nothing like the first Century church. I wonder why?
No. I belong to the ecclesia. I am NOT a sola scripturist, I fully rely on the Spirit of God and not on your interpretation of what you think God was talking about. I don't care when the Apocrypha was added or removed. The Spirit works through all things even imperfect things.
But let me ask you a question. Do you think that ONLY Catholics are saved? If so, why?
TruthInCatholocism
Apologetics
I dont believe Only Catholics are saved....
I Believe anyone who comes face to face with the lord and truley Repents will be saved
I belive God our lord is a forgiving lord...
I believe we are judged day by day thru the Laws of moses and the Beatitudes....
Prove to me the Catholic Church looks nothing like the First centurary Church i challenge you to read beyong the Bible into Old historical Documents and make that statement again
I Grant you cant
Why do you try to ignore the historical writings from the early Church which clearly indicate the legitimacy of infant baptism
The Catholic Church is merely continuing the tradition established by the first Christians, who heeded the words of Christ: "Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God" (Luke 18:16).
I Believe anyone who comes face to face with the lord and truley Repents will be saved
I belive God our lord is a forgiving lord...
I believe we are judged day by day thru the Laws of moses and the Beatitudes....
Prove to me the Catholic Church looks nothing like the First centurary Church i challenge you to read beyong the Bible into Old historical Documents and make that statement again
I Grant you cant
Why do you try to ignore the historical writings from the early Church which clearly indicate the legitimacy of infant baptism
The Catholic Church is merely continuing the tradition established by the first Christians, who heeded the words of Christ: "Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God" (Luke 18:16).
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Why read beyond the Bible when it is the ONLY snapshot of the first century church? Are you admitting that the Catholic Church looks nothing like the one in the book of Acts?
TruthInCatholocism
Apologetics
Not at all... i am merly stateing that we can argue about meanings of passages for hours... Interpretation of text especially the Meaning of some original Greek, Hebrew , Aramic... Can lead to some Long debates (not that this hasnt)
In fact As well use the Book of Acts... Use The early Epistles.... Use Revelation for all i care.. And make sure you read beyond.. See what early documents have taught us.. We are carrying on traditions of the early church.. Its clear as can be..
In fact As well use the Book of Acts... Use The early Epistles.... Use Revelation for all i care.. And make sure you read beyond.. See what early documents have taught us.. We are carrying on traditions of the early church.. Its clear as can be..
TruthInCatholocism
Apologetics
Sorry for the Double Post comp acting Up )O_O
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Actually no... I don't have to argue about this for hours. When you turn to the Spirit for answers you will gain insight into God's will. As long as you rely on man, you will still have merely a human understanding.
TruthInCatholocism
Apologetics
As a matter of Fact... I was Born Catholic.. But wasnt raised well in my faith and i chose to reserch religion.. I turned to god for answers spent countless years learnign Each Christian faith (knowing Christianity was the true faith.. Just didnt pick a demoniation) And devoted myself to one faith Catholic... Which is indeed the true faith.. I believe God Guided me to Catholocism..
I dont Believe that all Non-Catholics arent going to be saved.. I believe God is Judging us.. And despite Our faith (seeing as i believe in Grace And Works) God will know who truley repents on there sins....
It is hard to debate with someone who has no demoniation cause i am not fully aware of your Beliefs... But most Non-Denominational Christians and sects believe Catholics are being led into hell... And this is so far from the truth..
Jesus Said he is with his Church from the begining and that The holy spirit will Guide it for eternity..... The Catholic Church is the First Church and will continue to be guided by Christ
I dont Believe that all Non-Catholics arent going to be saved.. I believe God is Judging us.. And despite Our faith (seeing as i believe in Grace And Works) God will know who truley repents on there sins....
It is hard to debate with someone who has no demoniation cause i am not fully aware of your Beliefs... But most Non-Denominational Christians and sects believe Catholics are being led into hell... And this is so far from the truth..
Jesus Said he is with his Church from the begining and that The holy spirit will Guide it for eternity..... The Catholic Church is the First Church and will continue to be guided by Christ